Metaphysician Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Out of curiousity, who is the Harbinger of Justice, and what is he like?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Nobody knows who he is except Steve Long and perhaps some of Steve's cronies. And what he's like is really, really nasty. The Harbinger is the uber-vigilante of Steve's 4E Dark Champions sourcebook. That book is supposed to deal with "street level" super crimefighters and criminals, but the Harbinger of Justice is a match for most four-color supers, even some whole superteams if he's played intelligently. His m.o. is much more lethal than four-color types, though. Think Batman's level of skill, inventive brilliance and obsession, Punisher's attitude toward criminals, and more guns than Neo, and you won't be far off. BTW the Harbinger was created by Steve Long as one of his PCs. I'm not sure whether or not he took the form in those games that he did in Dark Champions. I'm sure Steve will be along here to fill in more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelleyCM Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 My theory is that he's really the "Hairdresser of Justice," but the spell-check mangled the name. You know, he gave the Champions their lovely 'dos right before the big press-op combats. -Shelley (Who actually played in a game with HoJ at a long-lost DDC, and was deeply shocked any GM would permit it! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Based on some of his skills (I think he has a KS of other dimensions) and the nature of his VPP (infinite guns) I'd gotten the impression he was a vigilante from a bleak future who's travelled back in time to kill all the criminals who will eventually be responsible for the state of his time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 He actually has a small "pocket dimension" in which he keeps his arsenal of weapons. He is able to reach into that dimension to retreive the guns and ammo he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by ChuckB Based on some of his skills (I think he has a KS of other dimensions) and the nature of his VPP (infinite guns) I'd gotten the impression he was a vigilante from a bleak future who's travelled back in time to kill all the criminals who will eventually be responsible for the state of his time period. Now, that is a really nice idea. I've no idea of what was intended, but that certainly would explain the Harbinger's powers, skills and M.O.. Lord Liaden's description of the HoJ is pretty accurate. The Harbinger is also known as the "Blue Moon Killer", I think because he used to leave behind cards marked with a blue crescent moon (my memory is a little rusty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Crimson Arrow The Harbinger is also known as the "Blue Moon Killer", I think because he used to leave behind cards marked with a blue crescent moon (my memory is a little rusty). That and he's followed by a chorus of mice that sing "Blue Moon". oh wait, that's Babe the pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by lemming That and he's followed by a chorus of mice that sing "Blue Moon". oh wait, that's Babe the pig. Guess who's getting a visit from the Harbinger tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 He's Steve Long's power fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 I thought that was Dr. Destroyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I thought that was Dr. Destroyer. Steve didn't create the good Doctor, he just updated him (I don't recall Steve being credited in the 4E Classic Enemies at all. I could be wrong...). He did create the Hard-Bringer (and HB is one of those characters I look at and say - power gamer). I like the automated trans-dimensional weapons delivery system, but he's basically the Punisher with Batman's tech on PCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Let's see. If memory serves, he had something like: 30 Dex +10 Dex, only for combat 6 Speed 4 overall levels 4 levels with guns 4 levels for offsetting autofire penalties 4 levels for offsetting hit location penalties 4 levels with gun #1 (which was never described--I always assumed he just put his power pool into killing attack [it's described as a "tank-buster" gun]) and then he had an 80 point Cosmic VPP for guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Von D-Man, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. I was just being a tad facetious. My group used to refer to HoJ as "the Meatgrinding Munchkin." No offense intended to Steve Long - or the Munchkin King, for that matter. OTOH I wouldn't want to say that the Harbinger as described in Dark Champions is the same type of character that Steve played in his games. As an NPC he's more intended as a potential foe, or perhaps reluctant ally, of the PCs, and his character might have been altered to emphasize that. Mind you, if you substituted other gadgets for guns, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of comics fans' writeups for Batman came out looking a lot like Harbinger's. He's in the same "omni-competent" tradition. Nowadays I suppose every comic-style universe is expected to have one - I just wish the Champions Universe version hadn't been a murderous psychopath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Crimson Arrow Guess who's getting a visit from the Harbinger tonight? Hah! Where he'll fall into my clutches. While tied up, I'll explain my grand plan, and then leave him to be sung to by a bunch of hamsters and bunny rabbits! MWA HA HA HA HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosliege Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 What I loved about HOJ was that he was in the Dark Champios book. Dark Champions, as I remember, was a low power, street level gaming genre where most PCs were between 200 and 250 points. HOJ was like 750. I remember thinking that if we needed this guy to help us, we were waaaaaay out of our league anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 HOJ is just Batman with some funny guns. He is pretty brutal and had to be toned down for our DC game (23 DEX, 5 SPD but most of the levels remained). I have seen a number of people write up someone "Batman like" giving them 6 Speed and 26-29 DEX along with a few levels and a boatload of MA. Some of the "Street Level" Dark Champions characters were anything but ....Card Shark anyone? What about Fenris Wolf or Arsenal's Gang. Nearly all of the write ups were closer to four color with guns than they were to Street Level vigilante play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by lemming Hah! Where he'll fall into my clutches. While tied up, I'll explain my grand plan, and then leave him to be sung to by a bunch of hamsters and bunny rabbits! MWA HA HA HA HA! Say, has anybody seen lemming lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 He exited stage right tailed by a guy in a hat and raincoat who could have been carrying some serious weaponry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by death tribble He exited stage right tailed by a guy in a hat and raincoat who could have been carrying some serious weaponry I'm impressed he made it out of the door. I suppose lemmings are tougher than portrayed in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Champsguy Let's see. If memory serves, he had something like: 30 Dex +10 Dex, only for combat 6 Speed 4 overall levels 4 levels with guns 4 levels for offsetting autofire penalties 4 levels for offsetting hit location penalties 4 levels with gun #1 (which was never described--I always assumed he just put his power pool into killing attack [it's described as a "tank-buster" gun]) and then he had an 80 point Cosmic VPP for guns. Did he have Firewing's head hanging from his belt? (I mean -- all that? Yeow! This is the guy you send out to hunt down Galactus!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by FenrisUlf Did he have Firewing's head hanging from his belt? (I mean -- all that? Yeow! This is the guy you send out to hunt down Galactus!) IIRC correctly he weighed at a higher point total than the 4E Firewing did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Crimson Arrow The Harbinger is also known as the "Blue Moon Killer", I think because he used to leave behind cards marked with a blue crescent moon (my memory is a little rusty). This is entirely correct. He also had a blue crescent moon insignia on his costume and over the left eye of his otherwise full-facial mask. Originally posted by Champsguy Let's see. If memory serves, he had something like: 30 Dex +10 Dex, only for combat Actually, I think he had +10 Dex, Only for Determining Who Goes First. This was the first appearance of the Lightning Reflexes tallent before it was actually called Lightning Reflexes. Point being, there was no way anybody would ever go before Harbinger, not even the 4th Edition Rainbow Archer! As a proud owner of the original Dar Champions, I can also look this stuff up when I get home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_CCHKK Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 If I remember correctly, Steve posted in a similar thread one time that the Harbinger of Justice started out as a normal level character (250 points, probably, given the timeframe) and that everything that was shown in Dark Champions was accrued experience. Now *that's* scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Klytus This is entirely correct. He also had a blue crescent moon insignia on his costume and over the left eye of his otherwise full-facial mask. Actually, I think he had +10 Dex, Only for Determining Who Goes First. This was the first appearance of the Lightning Reflexes tallent before it was actually called Lightning Reflexes. Point being, there was no way anybody would ever go before Harbinger, not even the 4th Edition Rainbow Archer! As a proud owner of the original Dar Champions, I can also look this stuff up when I get home... As some one who is AT home with the original Dark Champions... Indeed, DEX 30 SPD 6. +10 DEX, for CV and Going First (-1/4) FWIW, his pool is 80. +2 Overall +2 Ranged Combat +4 with Gun #1 (and 11- Find Weakness!) +2 DCV +4 OCV vs Hit Locations Oh, and random note: He had 3d6 Luck. Just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme +10 DEX, for CV and Going First (-1/4) Why didn't he just take Does Not Add to Figured Characteristics for -1/2? That was still legal in 4th Edition. GhostDancer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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