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Earthdawn/Tamriel HERO ?


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Ok, first things first... Hello everyone! (first post :) )

 

Tonight I've done it, bought HERO 5th and Fantasy HERO at the onlinestore of my choice and now my mind is working.

I've read a lot about the HERO system in the last weeks, months.. whatever... and the system look's like you could realy build anything with it.

 

I tried to make a conversion of two Fantasy Worlds in nearly every "multigenre" (or how do you call it) game I own, everything failed... looking at all the HERO stuff out in the net HERO should be able to do it... the two Worlds I'm talking about are Earthdawn (I love the setting but never played the game, I dislike the rules... the reason for this conversionmadness) and Tamriel, this absolutly fantastic World of the ElderScrolls computergames (Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind, you can find a lot of informations in the games to create the world as a setting. I love the way the races are shown in the games, not the stereotypical Elves, Dwarfes and wäh.... Hobbits... ok, there are dwarfes but these dwarfes are actually elves, only called dwarfes because of a story with some giants and after all they are all dead... somehow...)

 

I know it will need a lot of work but do you think that HERO will work in at least one of the settings? I always had problems to come up with an working solution to all the Magic stuff (in earthdawn, half the skills are powered by magic) and the different metals for armor and weapons (in the elderscrolls games)

 

I think the later will be easy in HERO but the first?

 

btw. has anyone out there already done a conversion of earthdawn or created Tamriel HERO :)

 

...Hisho

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Well, HERO claims to be able to do anything. For the most part it can. I have never played Earthdawn but am familiar with the rules and have played Shadowrun which uses a similar rule system. I think it would be easy to convert Earthdawn to HERO.

 

Varying Characteristic Maxima by Race (FH p 79) would be a very good idea for Earthdawn especially with a large range of racial types.

 

As a suggestion, draw up a racial package deal for each race which includes only the abilities and traits that every member of that race would have. Windlings have Flight, Obsidimen have natural Armor, T'skrang have a prehensile tail, etc. That way your players will have an easy time creating a character of the race they want.

 

You may or may not want to draw up package deals for each Discipline.

 

Blood magic items will probably give you the most trouble because of the way they work. However you could state that Blood Magic items need to be bought with character points as the simplest/closest solution.

 

The best thing about doing a conversion is that there is already a built in price list. You only have to draw up stats for the various types of weapons and armor.

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I partially agree with your thoughts on Earthdawn. Awesome setting, and strange rules. That being said, I would be leery of divesting the setting from the rules, mainly because of how tied together they are. The Step mechanic, while unique, will generate some of the most realistic probabilities seen in the industry, and the magic is such an essential party of the world that reimagining it might get sticky. That being said, there are a lot of gaps, and some things don't work out right.

 

So, if you want to convert, the flexibility of the power system allows you to make characters that have a magical "edge" without being spell tossers. Buying down the cost of the powers with limitations will give you appropriately cheap powers. Look in the Minor Magic thread for some ideas and how cheap they can get. ED Hero's would probably be built with 100+ base points, and 100+ points from disadvantages. I'm new to Hero myself, but the Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero are next on my list, and I think they will help you as well. UMA details real and fantasy martial arts, some of which have the feel of "beyond the powers of mortals", which describes adepts. Ninja Hero takes this even farther into the realm of Wushu/Wuxia - Crouching Tiger type stuff, which is also appropriate at high levels.

 

As for the mages, I'm not the best source, since, like I said, I'm new to Hero. On a hunch, I'd say the Matrix style casting can be recreated with multiple smallish Variable Power Point Pools that you slowly increase the size of as you level, and then rule that you can cast spells without putting it in the pool first if you are willing to risk the backlash and getting Horror Marked.

 

The thread weapons are also possible, since you can not only build characters with points, but Items, Vehicles, and Bases. So if you get a Threaded Sword, it would have a point cost, that your character would have to pay to activate each new level.

 

I hope this helps. Sorry I can't be more specific, but since I've yet to play either system, I don't fully grok them. Basically the answer is a "generally yes, you can do Earthdawn."

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Guest joen00b

Re: Earthdawn/Tamriel HERO ?

 

Originally posted by Hisho

Ok, first things first... Hello everyone! (first post :) )

 

Tonight I've done it, bought HERO 5th and Fantasy HERO at the onlinestore of my choice and now my mind is working.

I've read a lot about the HERO system in the last weeks, months.. whatever... and the system look's like you could realy build anything with it.

 

I tried to make a conversion of two Fantasy Worlds in nearly every "multigenre" (or how do you call it) game I own, everything failed... looking at all the HERO stuff out in the net HERO should be able to do it... the two Worlds I'm talking about are Earthdawn (I love the setting but never played the game, I dislike the rules... the reason for this conversionmadness) and Tamriel, this absolutly fantastic World of the ElderScrolls computergames (Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind, you can find a lot of informations in the games to create the world as a setting. I love the way the races are shown in the games, not the stereotypical Elves, Dwarfes and wäh.... Hobbits... ok, there are dwarfes but these dwarfes are actually elves, only called dwarfes because of a story with some giants and after all they are all dead... somehow...)

 

I know it will need a lot of work but do you think that HERO will work in at least one of the settings? I always had problems to come up with an working solution to all the Magic stuff (in earthdawn, half the skills are powered by magic) and the different metals for armor and weapons (in the elderscrolls games)

 

I think the later will be easy in HERO but the first?

 

btw. has anyone out there already done a conversion of earthdawn or created Tamriel HERO :)

 

...Hisho

 

Congratulations on buying the last gaming system you'll ever need! You're in for a lot of reading, almost 1,000 pages between the two books you have purchased, but when it's all absorbed and your playtesting it all getting ready for a gaming session, you'll understand it's the right system for everyone!

 

If ya have questions, everyone here is very well versed in the system and can assist you with all sorts of ideas and direction. Don't hesitate to come back and ask, you will get the answers you're looking for, plus a whole slew of alternate ideas.

 

Enjoy and don't be a stranger (just watch out for those NGD boards, they're very addictive and your campaigns may suffer, hehe).

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I'm familiar with both, so here's my .02:

 

First, Shadowrun and Earthdawn are not the same at all. Very different systems, especailly magic.

 

Okay, now that that's out of the way.

 

EARTHDAWN

RACES

This should be pretty straightfoward. Every setting has it. While there are different ways to handle it, FH (Fantasy Hero) is very helpful.

 

MAGIC

This is a bit tougher. You need to decide how important the specifics of the ED magic system are to the feel of the game. If they aren't all that important, as compared to the types of powers allowed, then I think you will have a much easier time.

 

TAMRIEL

I think this is much easier. Again races are more a matter of detail than anything. The birthsigns will be fun, although balancing them is somewhat of a challenge.

 

MAGIC

Perfect match, as far as I'm concerned. The default magic system in FH should really do the trick just perfectly. Have players start with however many spells they can afford. Then, as play progresses, if they want to make them more powerful (e.g. more damage), they have to find a guild which can provide them with the ability to tailor the spell. They then pay money for that, as well as any difference in character points and done.

 

I've spent a lot of time converting a lot of magic systems to Hero and GURPS. It isn't easy and often frustrates the players unless you have a lot of time to convert every effect. I would concentrate on recreating the world, races, economy, and power types, rather than focus on the gritty mechanics of one magic system over another. Focus on things that capture flavor (e.g. blood magic, critical failures, no teleporting, etc.) rather than specific rules. Go for feel not accuracy. I think you'll have more fun.

 

What universal systems did you try?

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What Universal systems have I tried, well GURPS but I didn't like the feel of GURPS for the two settings, then my own version of the Basic-Roleplaying BRP (D100 system by chaosium), Fuzion (well I know it's a child (a bastardchild as some say) of interlock and hero but the pure fuzion rules are a little bit to light for what I had in mind, that's how I found HERO btw. and now after a long time, nearly a 3/4 year decided to buy it... after a lot of good reviews and articles I've read about it),

 

Then i tried to do it more anime like with BESM/Tri-Stat DX, but that wasn't realy the way my players like the games. Ad last I was thinking about making it into a Unisystem-Game because we played some AFMBE and i had a starting Witchcraft game coming up... but to adapt these two settings to unisys... let's just say I had some problems to convert it they way I would like it.

 

Races in Earthdawn:

 

How do you think will Windlings work out in HERO, in GURPS i tried and tried but whatever I tried with my racial templates they didn't realy work.

I think HERO will give me a lot of options to work against the problems I encountered in GURPS (The system is not realy bad for realistic games but the 4 stat system and some other things are more or less limiting in the more heroic scale of games...)

 

oh, and one Question about Ultimate Martial Artist/vehicle:

do you need the two books or could you create your own martial art styles/maneuvers and vehicles with just the main corebook... I hated this in GURPS, you need Book A to do vehicles and then Book B for MA... but without these books you could only use the basic maneuvers and because you had absolute no Idea of how to create these things as a working system (especialy the vehicles) you were forced to buy the book or made things up.

 

Ok, on the charactersheet of HERO I've seen enougth combat actions to still my thirst for the first time and it is higly possible that I will buy the two books in the future so this is only a matter of time... but I realy want to know this... :)

 

...Hisho

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Well you definitely hit all the major universals. You left Savage Worlds, but that might not have enough detail for you.

 

The setting I'm working on went through a lot of what you've already described. Hero is where we've landed. Another you could look at, that is very close to Hero is Action! and it is OGL, which is pretty sweet. Doesn't have a magic system or martial arts just yet, but they will get there I'm sure.

 

UMA & UV. I don't think you need UV for what you are doing unless you want to get into Skyship combat. The rules in UV for "party control" of a vessel/combat are pretty nice.

 

UMA is only needed if you are going to run a heavier martial arts game, especially if you want to make your own maneuvers. I like it, but you can certainly get enough out of the main book to tide you over.

 

Windlings are easy. Give them 0-3 base STR, with a max of 5-8 (otherwise they get crazy). Buy their running down to 2-3" but give them:

 

12 points Winged Flight (6†Flight) ,0 END (+½), Restrainable (-½), May be increased/decreased at 2 pts per 1â€

 

They can then fly with perfect ease. If you think they get just as tired as someone walking, get rid of 0 END, or make it 1/2 END.

 

Give them 5-8 Body (they are small).

 

I think to handle the breadth of races in ED you should consider modifying characteristic maxima, otherwise, especially at high point levels, you end up with 20 STR windlings and that gets ugly fast. This is where you can represent their speed, but giving them a 5 or 6 max., offset of course by reduced Body, STR, and CON maxes. This means players can buy higher speeds but avoid the x2 cost for going over 4.

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You dont need either UMA or UV, but I would recommend both, particularly UMA (only because I dont use vehicles a lot in my own campaigns, where as Martial Arts get used a lot).As far as converting the 2 games you list, I played Earthdawn exactly once, and played Morrowind for a while b4 becoming bored with it.Morrowind was just really "blah" to me and pretty generic IMO, whereas Earthdawn was like Call Of Cthulu with swords, and really odd die mechanics.However, of the two, Earthdawn had some really interesting flavor bits and some neat concepts, although I didnt like the straightjacketing of the classes.HEROs can do both, but will particularly excel at some of the high-end Earthdawn stuff, where the characters become almost like superheroes with their mystical abilities.Morrowind is so ho-hum and down-the-middle that HEROs can handle it without even batting an eye, going with the "heroic" options and a mid-to-low powered magic system, perhaps a skill-based Magic System with a seperate skill for each Spell.As far as doing the races and what have your either, just sit down w/ a sheet of paper and list out the abilities each has, like this (BTW, this is not meant to be comprehensive; its based on my memory of a game I played once 7 years ago; its just an example):

Windlings:
  • small
  • hard to hit
  • lucky
  • can fly
Then just stat each item.
Windlings:
  • small
    • Disadvantage, Physical Limitation, Small Size
  • hard to hit
    • +4 DCV; 20 points
  • lucky
    • 5d6 luck; 25 points
  • can fly
    • Flight 10", Reduced Endurance (0 END, +1/2), Restrainable (-1/4; Wings); 24 points

  • Total Cost looks like it will be in the 70 point range in abilities and at least 10 points in Disadvantages.
This technique is handy for making characters, packages, etc in the HERO System and is called "Reasoning from Effect". You list the effect, and then you find the construct that best represents the desired effect rather than the other way around.Good luck!
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I got it this morning... well... AAAAARRRRGGG... I've read that the FH is also called the Fantasy Phonebook by some people and it is true somehow... this book is big, and HERO... wow, I've already read the first half of the book (not to 100% but to get an overview) and it's really fantastic...

 

the only thing that is bad is that my wrist is beginning to hurt by holding this big tome... the last 3 corebooks I've read were tiny dwarfs in coparison to HERO, but hey let's beginn to create a character... hihi... and then I will try to convert the races.

 

btw. I will not try to convert the Birthsigns because the are more or less a creation for morrowind, the other titles in the eldar scroll series don't have them. Ok, maybe I will incorporate them later but my first goal is to go for an Daggerfall feel to the conversion.

 

...Hisho, who is really happy now

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Originally posted by Killer Shrike

This technique is handy for making characters, packages, etc in the HERO System and is called "Reasoning from Effect". You list the effect, and then you find the construct that best represents the desired effect rather than the other way around.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the tip I will try it this way... the things I have to do today is create a character to get into the rules, then convert the basic magic sys of tamriel to hero and then do a character again... the character from my old daggerfall game...

 

I think I will be busy until this evening... :)

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Originally posted by Hisho

Thanks for the tip I will try it this way... the things I have to do today is create a character to get into the rules, then convert the basic magic sys of tamriel to hero and then do a character again... the character from my old daggerfall game...

 

I think I will be busy until this evening... :)

Consider Hero Designer v2 (available on this web site). It will really help you make characters. :)
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