First time GMing FH

[JmOz]

starting a FH game, kind of want power levels to be similar to AD&D (2nd) 1st level character, but rapid advancement, what is a good starting point?

[keithcurtis]

For a true First Level feel, I'd start with Competent Normals (50+50).

I'd be pretty lavish with XP at first until they reach Standard Hero Level (75+75, or about 150 points), then I would taper off. I think that would give a good D&D feel.. By that time you should have a better feel for how rapid you want their advancement.

 

Keith "I hated playing first level" Curtis

[Chris Goodwin]

Try 50+50 or 75+25. As for rapid advancement, give out lots of XPs.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by keithcurtis

For a true First Level feel, I'd start with Competent Normals (50+50).

I'd be pretty lavish with XP at first until they reach Standard Hero Level (75+75, or about 150 points), then I would taper off. I think that would give a good D&D feel.. By that time you should have a better feel for how rapid you want their advancement.

 

Keith "I hated playing first level" Curtis

 

The issue is that I am GMing neophytes, this will be at most there second experience with hero, there first being a Western CHAMPIONS (not Western Hero) adventure I did a while ago. They wanted Fantasy, but not D&D (3.5 ticked them off) so it was either Gurps or Hero, and I'm the one who owned both

[Alibear]

I think that 50+50 is too high.

 

If you make normals/peasants in the 8-10 stat range or 0-level characters a 50/50 character would chew his way through hordes of these guys without too much trouble.

 

I would reccomend 25+25, you may actually find players specialising in one thing and dropping characteristics etc to pay for it! How many D&D thieves have 15 str? How many D&D magicians have 14 dex?

 

If you give them on average of 3xps per adventure they'll toughen up real quick.

 

I think that it depends on how you write up the "monsters"

Do you want starting characters to be warey of a bunch of orcs?

 

100 point characters are tough!

[Derek Hiemforth]

You have to buy some things in HERO (like Characteristics) that aren't affected by levels in D&D. That is to say, the main thing that separates most 1st level characters from 0-level characters in D&D is that 1st level characters have better ability scores. (In practice, even if they shouldn't in a straight 3d6-six-times theory.)

 

If I really wanted to capture the flavor of a D&D-style character, I'd probably start the characters with about 40 points that had to be spent on their Characteristics. Then I'd give them another 10-15 points to spend on their first "class" abilities. (A mage's first spell, a warrior's first couple of Weapon Familiarities and maybe a Combat Level, a thief's first couple of thiefly Skills, etc.)

 

After that, every 10-15 points would equate to another "level," as the mage buys another spell or two, the warrior buys another Combat Level or buys a physical CHA up a little bit, etc.

[Legendsmiths]

I agree with both Derek & Alibear.

 

I build my thugs at 25pts (0 base, 25 disads). This is equiv IMO to a 1st level NPC class in D&D.

 

I'd say a 1st level char is about 50 pts (25 + 25). That's definitely a budding hero.

 

3xp per session is about right for a 4-5 hour session. I use a card system to reward good roleplaying on the spot, and they can turn cards in for XP if they want (1 for 1).

 

75 pts (50 + 25) is about a 3rd level char, right on the 10-15 pts per level.

 

100 pts (75 + 25 or 50 + 50) is about a 5th to 6th level char and are quite powerful. If you are realistic about your thug monsters (orcs, goblins, etc), they will all be about 25 pts and 100pt chars will surely trounce them.

 

My campaign has been running a while and the chars are about 115 pts. I still throw double their number of 25pt thugs at them from time to time and it's still a good fight, although they rarely get hurt.

 

Lower points forces people to focus. The more points you give them, the more likely they are to diversify. Also, experience gets spent differently than base points. Building a 100pt char from the beginning is different from adding 50pts to a 50 pt char over the course of the campaign. I think the latter is far more interesting.

 

Good luck.

[JmOz]

After listining to everyone I think I am going to compromise, and give a base of 25+75 in disads, then up to 5 XP a sesion, until they are at 75+75, then drop xp to the normal 1-3 I normaly give. My thoughts on it are this, I want the characters to become heroes, as a hero is 75+75 this gives them the ability to grow to that level quickly, I also don't want to drown them in options but want to make sure they have some...

 

I'm going to write up some "classes" and "races" as package deals to help these guys convert over, and am currently working on the magic system,,,

[AnotherSkip]

Frankly having lost three 150 point heroes to 6 orcs straight out of the 4th FH common orc rules. I think that you guys are waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off.

 

the only reason the 4th hero did not die was because he had 10" of movement 4 speed and 60 End.

 

the Gm is a much better tactician and does not pull punches. All four were wearing light armor and had decent weapons, martial arts, and no magic.

 

 

still just be careful.

 

First combat i would suggest being a hungry dog or two like another poster suggested. THEN decide what they can face combat wise.

[Legendsmiths]

Well, the straight FH Orcs are not 25 pt characters, as much as I remember.

 

At 150 pts you will find yourself in an epic campaign.

 

If you are considering magic systems, I'll offer mine as an option. We continue to develop and clarify it, but it works real well for the feel we want.

 

http://www.tekhed.com/hero/wizardserrand.php

 

I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

[Legendsmiths]

Oh, 75 disads is quite a bit, especially if you adhere to category limits. If you want 100pt chars I suggest 50 + 50. That is of course unless you want some severely disadvantaged heroes.

[Legendsmiths]

As for geing waaaaay off, my party of 5 110-115 pt heroes faced 9 25 pt thugs who spent all their points on combat ability (they were mercs). The fight was interesting, but not terribly difficult.

 

50-75 pt focused characters can be almost as challenging as 100pt diversified characters. The issue is how many points are spent on combat ability, what are the "x factors" (OCV + Damage Classes), and how relative are they.

 

A 25 pt thug is easily a 7-8 xfactor (3-4 OCV + 3-4 DC).

 

A 50-75 pt character can easily have an xfactor of 10-12 which is more or less a DX 15 (OCV 5) guy wielding a greatsword (DC 7), and that WILL be tough.

 

The GM should always balance the threat, not the points.

[swobeas]

I've just started Gming a Fh campaign with characters based on 125 points and this is not the thing you want to do if you want Ad&d 1st Level.

 

These three guys took out a the deceiver-demon Katryn from the Western-Shores example scenario: city of demons.

 

This is no thing 1st Level Ad&d characters can do...

 

Another tip: be careful with the talent combat luck, because if the characters wear real armor in addition you need a real powerful attack th harm them and what then if the same attack hits the spellcaster.....*squish*

 

so far,

swobeas:p

[Legendsmiths]

Agreed. Combat Luck can unbalance the game if allowed to the wrong players, at the wrong time.

 

I allow 1 level when characters are 115+ points, and then an additional 1 level every 25-50 points.

[Old Man]

Wow, I'm starting to think I gave my players too many points (75+50).

 

Oh well. The funny thing is, one PC is TOUGH, and another is really really weak (can you say 8 CON and 8 BODY?)

[Earthson]

The better to role play with my dear

 

Although as a game master I like my share of blood baths, the 8 CON, 8 BODY wimps do make for a character who is much more inclined to talk their way out of a situation than hack and slash. More often than not they are also less than 10 STR too. Besides, then the player just needs to figure out a way to make the stronger and stupider do the dirty work for them.

[Spyritwind]

I wouldn't allow combat luck to work if armor is worn. Considering how cheap it is and how useful it is in a heroic level game I wouldn't even allow a limitation to be put on it. I'd probably even raise the point cost. NEway ...

 

As some have already posted and as you already know it cost points to have characteristics above Joe Normal and it's not that way in D&D. I'd say allow at least 40 points for starting stats and maybe an additional 10 points for back ground skills such as professions, languages, perks, knowledge skills, etc. etc. Then add how ever many point you think being a first level gumby would give you.

 

I'd probably start at 75 pts in your case, but that might be 2nd level. It all depends on how the points are spent. Assuming at least 40 pts are spent on stats and 10 on what players consider borring background skills the characters shouldn't be too crazy. As always though you have to watch for any thing that will unbalance your campaign and veto it. +5 OCV with Long Sword only cost 10 points. You don't want that at '1st level' do ya?

 

Armor availabilty will make a big difference with the fighters in the party. If they start out with scale in wont be so bad, but if they have resistant defenses of six or more it gets a bit tougher.

 

Even for all the great things Hero is and for all the bashing D&D 3E gets on these boards the older I get the more I appreciate 3E even though I still like Hero as well.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Spyritwind

 

Armor availabilty will make a big difference with the fighters in the party. If they start out with scale in wont be so bad, but if they have resistant defenses of six or more it gets a bit tougher.

 

I made it impossible for the players to have a full suit of scale armor (5 DEF) from the beginning. They could buy partial armor but that allows for lucky hits to unarmored locations. Purchasing armor in the 7+ DEF range will be very difficult unless the party cooperates and is very frugal.

 

My campaign only allows stacking of resistant defense to 5.

[FantasyGM]

I just registered on this board because I was looking for advice on the same thing as you JmOz. I want to run a Fantasy Hero game for my group and include an advancement system akin to d20. I am batting around the idea of giving them all 25+25 points to start and then every so often allowing them to "level" by having a predetermined number of points spent by me on the direction my PC's want their characters to develop, and also leaving a few points for them to choose how to spend. I think this will create a satisfactory feeling of advancement, and leave them freedom to spend points in minor ways...like skill points in d20.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by FantasyGM

I am batting around the idea of giving them all 25+25 points to start and then every so often allowing them to "level" by having a predetermined number of points spent by me on the direction my PC's want their characters to develop, and also leaving a few points for them to choose how to spend. I think this will create a satisfactory feeling of advancement, and leave them freedom to spend points in minor ways...like skill points in d20.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with your idea. But for some reason it just doesn't "feel" right. Experience points ARE character points afterall. Hero doesn't work on the whole "you've earned 2,000 xp so you've gained a level, now you can spend 5 skill points." Hero is easier in that if you've earned 5 xp, you have 5 points to spend on your character.

 

As the GM, you'd probably be better off giving xp in a normal fashion and then let the players know when they can spend it, and how much of it they can spend.

[Legendsmiths]

What is your concern, Fantasy GM? That the players won't like incremental bonuses or that you want them to focus in a particular direction?

 

My experience has been that incremental bonuses work fine, and that players will focus or diversify as they see fit. Really, what's to stop someone from multiclassing in d20 besides an arbitrary XP penalty that can be avoided if played right? I think that's the strength of the system.

 

I would recommend you go with 25+25 points to start small, make sure the bad guys are usually 0+25 or weaker. Award about 3 XP per session, +1-3 for completion of an adventure. However, only give them the XP at the end of the adventure.

 

Example: 3 sessions to rescue the princess = 3 x 3 = 9 plus 1-3 for how well they rescued her. Total: 10-13.

 

Essentially, only award the XP when the characters can take time between adventures to spend it. This will have a "level up" feel, since they are getting points in bursts, but is still very Hero.

[FantasyGM]

Thanks for the feedback. My main concern isn't that they won't like the leveling type of advancement. I have already spoken with my players and they seem to like the idea. I was unclear on the execution. Right now I am thinking of awarding experience as per the norm in Heroes, but rather than giving it to them every session, experience will be awarded at the end of an arc during downtime. Then as far as spending the experience, I will consult them on how they think their characters advanced and offer new abilities for their level (to be purchased with the xp's). I was asking for input on how much experience would constitute a level. For example I was considering a large jump...like 25pts.

 

Another issue is magic equipment. Should I only allow it to be purchased with experience or should it be found through out quests. In fantasy games one of my favorite things to do is discover loot, but I don't really know how this will affect a Hero game. I have only played supers in this system.

[Legendsmiths]

I feel that 15 points is about equal to a level. That would make a 10th level char about equal to a 200 pt character, assuming that 1st level is 25+25, and that seems about right.

 

As for loot, I would use D&D equipment, and simply halve the weight. That will be close enough for metric relative to heroic strength. Armor and weapons are a bit trickier, but the options are also fewer.

 

I would really suggest that money be the key factor in purchasing equipment, not points, unless you are going to run a Xena/Herc type game where the point is the action, not the quest for wealth and glory. That's how I run my game. Hopefully I'll have EQ lists up soon (based on the d20 SRD lists), but they aren't finished yet.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by FantasyGM

Another issue is magic equipment. Should I only allow it to be purchased with experience or should it be found through out quests. In fantasy games one of my favorite things to do is discover loot, but I don't really know how this will affect a Hero game. I have only played supers in this system.

 

If they start with it, then they spend character points on it. For experience, I think it should only go into really special gear that you are awarding to them. Other than that, all gear magical or otherwise is just found/bought and used. There is no "bonding" requiring experience unless that's part of your campaign.

[Legendsmiths]

I agree with shadowpup. I allow them to spend points on items if they want something "signature", otherwise I actually use the d20 SRD magic items and just translate them.