2 Handed Weapons don’t do enough damage.

[Demonsong]

Well it’s a question more that a statement. This probably belongs in the Fantasy section but since the same could be said in any Heroic setting that uses melee weapons I figured I would put it here. Any way a bastered sword or battle axe do damage equivalent to most 2 handed weapons and allows a person to use a shield and for a +2 or +3 DCV bonus. I have only one person in my current campaign that uses a 2handed weapon and that is because they are fluff oriented. Especially since with his strength he could be wielding a one handed weapon and only loose a single DC. Has any one else noticed this or am I reading to much in to it.

 

I was thinking about razing the DC all 2 handed weapons by one. To more accurately reflect the actual extra power one gets form using a 2 handed weapon. And make using one worth while (vs. a shield any way).

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Demonsong

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: 2 Handed Weapons don’t do enough damage.

 

Originally posted by Demonsong

Any way a bastered sword or battle axe do damage equivalent to most 2 handed weapons

Not exactly equivalent. A Great Axe does more damage than a Battle Axe, and a Great Sword does more damage than a Bastard Sword (and adds +1 OCV to boot).

I was thinking about razing the DC all 2 handed weapons by one. To more accurately reflect the actual extra power one gets form using a 2 handed weapon. And make using one worth while (vs. a shield any way).

Another possibility would be to say that, rather than having its STR Min raised by 2 when used one-handed, it loses 1 DC when used one-handed instead. So for example, using this house rule, a Bastard Sword would have a STR Min of 12 regardless of whether it was used with one hand or two, but it would do 1.5d6K with two hands, and only 1d6+1 with one hand. (This would essentially mean that a Bastard Sword used with one hand is basically the same as a Broad Sword, while used with two hands, it's midway between a Broad Sword and a Great Sword.)

[Talon]

There are a lot of opportunities for minimaxing in the FREd weapons chart, alas.

[Edsel]

If you'd prefer 2-handed weapons that do even more damage, just rebuild them the way you want them. That's one of the pluses of the Hero System, you can build things to make them work the way you want them to. In my own Dark Champions campaign we boosted most gun damage because we thought they just wern't lethal enough (we play a pretty deadly game).

[Killer Shrike]

Similarly I made my own weapon chart that overall genericizes damage and keeps damage somewhat consistent even taking into account vagaries of STR Min. Also, dont forget that two handed weapons are more difficult to disarm.

[NuSoardGraphite]

2-handed weapons don't do enough damage?

 

I beg to differ.

 

Lets take for example, the classic weapon. The Sword.

 

Broad/Long Sword:

-Base damage: 4DC (1D6+1K) Average = 4 body

-Max damage: 8DC (2 1/2D6K) Average = 9 Body

 

Bastard Sword:

-Base Damage: 5DC (1 1/2D6K) Average = 5.5 Body

-Max Damage: 10DC (3D6+1K) Average = 11.5 Body

 

Great Sword:

-Base Damage: 6DC (2D6K) Average = 7 Body

-Max Damage: 12DC (4D6K) Average = 14 Body!

 

Taking a look at this comparison, one can see that the average damage hit using just Base Damage is 3 body points higher with the Great Sword than with a Long Sword. The damage potential on the Great Sword is much higher than that of the Broad or Long Sword. A strong character with enough skill levels and Martial Maneuvers (and perhaps a few +DC's with his Martial Art) can cause ugly amounts of damage with a Great Sword.

 

In fact, the average damage on a maxed-out Long sword is only 2pts higher than that of the average damage on merely the starting DC of the Great Sword.

 

And the Great Axe does more damage than the Great Sword.

[Old Man]

In general two-handed weapons do, in fact, inflict more damage than one-handed weapons. But not enough to make up for the fact that you can't use a shield. On top of that, your hero has to be off the charts in terms of STR or applicable levels in order to begin to be able to get the most potential out of a 2h weapon.

[Dr Lucky]

I hadn't considered the doubling cap. That is a worthwhile thought. Between that and the point KS made about disarm, I'm betting they are fine.

[tesuji]

Book not in front of me, so...

 

FWIW... if you do add rules to improve THWpn damage, you should probably look at lowering or removing the value entirely for the Two-handed weapon limitation.

 

In HERO remember, the TH Weapon is a limitation, so that weapon should not be seen as "as good as" a one handed weapon with all else being equal.

 

If the rules change to make a 2d6K one handed weapon and a 2d6k two-handed weapon perform "balanced" against each other, then there should be a value of -0 applied to the two-handed weapon limitation.

 

Of course, if most weapons in your campaign are "found, stolen or bought with gold" and not bought with character points, it does become another issue.

[Hugh Neilson]

This comes down largely to taste. If you want 2 handed weapons to be a common selection by lower STR/skill characters, make them more attractive. If you want Weapon and Shield to be a more common choice, leave it as is or even make the 2 handed weapons weaker.

 

The big advantage of a 2 handed weapon is that the STR min is lower than would be the case for a one handed weapon with the same DC's. If you add more damage, don't forget to refigure the STR min. The weapon will now be out of reach for all but the strongest of characters anyway, but some one tweaked (aid spells, high STR, massive skill levels) for 2 handed weapon use will do even greater amounts of damage.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by Old Man

In general two-handed weapons do, in fact, inflict more damage than one-handed weapons. But not enough to make up for the fact that you can't use a shield. On top of that, your hero has to be off the charts in terms of STR or applicable levels in order to begin to be able to get the most potential out of a 2h weapon.

 

Off the charts?

 

In regards to the Great Sword with a STR-min of 18:

 

STR-23: +1DC

 

+4 Skill Levels: +2DC

 

Offensive Strike or Haymaker: +2DC

 

Total damage 3 1/2D6 Damage.

 

another 2 skill levels or +2DC's with martial arts will acheive the maximum with the weapons damage.

 

I don't find any of those "Off the charts" at all except possibly the STR, and in many people's campaigns, a 23 STR is acceptable for many Fighter-type characers.

 

What a lot of people don't consider though, that this is a Role Playing Game which means you are playing the role of a character...you are supposed to play this characters personality not a collection of statistics. Thus, if it would be more fitting for the type of character you've made to use a two-handed weapon over 1-handed weapon + Sheild combo, then you should probably do so, until (in the course of the game) it makes sense for the character to change.

[Farkling]

and if I remember correctly, a character with a 23 STR could theoretically use the 2H Sword in one hand AND carry a shield...

 

Conan! Conan! Conan!

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Farkling

and if I remember correctly, a character with a 23 STR could theoretically use the 2H Sword in one hand AND carry a shield...

 

Conan! Conan! Conan!

 

That's my recollection as well - if you swing it one handed, it just raises the STR min.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Old Man

In general two-handed weapons do, in fact, inflict more damage than one-handed weapons. But not enough to make up for the fact that you can't use a shield. On top of that, your hero has to be off the charts in terms of STR or applicable levels in order to begin to be able to get the most potential out of a 2h weapon.

 

I agree with your statement, but that's the trade offs in using a two-handed weapon. It pretty much is the same in any system. The player has to decide if he wants the DCs from the shield, or the extra damage from the sword.

 

I use the standard abilities from FH, but allow martial arts, so the players can get a combat style to take advantage of the swords power (ie - they buy a maneuver that adds DCs (so they can hit that max cap).