Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

[nexus]

Players in the Zombie Dawn campaign, Avert your eyes. *shakes fist* AVERT THEM!

 

Now, I'm having a bit of trouble balancing a campaign. Its a survival horror style game involving hordes of undead, a small town and all the ususual trappings. The creatures, while not shambling slowpokes are no faster than normal people, but I designed them as automatons (being corpses and all). They have the classic weakness of being vulnerable to being shut in the head but are otherwise pretty hard to destroy. The problem I didn't consider (call it over eager to start and a love a genre emulation) is that in game terms they are much tougher than it seems. Hitting the head is pretty hard in Hero and without fairly large guns, it still might not kill the creature. Most of the PCs are fairly normal people with little combat skill. In hand to hand (which many the PCs are limited too at the moment), its very hard to keep from being bitten (which is...bad), perhaps too hard. I don't want to make things totally impossible, but I want to keep the thrill of imminent death that makes survival horror appealing. I've been fudging things a bit, but I'd like something more concrete. Any suggestions?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Reduce their Body stat a bit so they drop faster, blow enough chunks off and it has trouble chasing you..

 

Reduce their Running so they don't close as fast, maybe give the characters an extra phase or so to try and drop them and escape, or at least retreat. A Zombie with 4" of running can't close and attack unless the character is within 2" of it and smart characters in this genre will keep backing up and firing at the thing. Toss in the occasional normal movement Zombie to keep the tension up.

 

that's about all I can think of really..

[devlin1]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Y'know, I was struck by some of these same thoughts while watching the Dawn of the Dead remake. "These Normals, they're pretty good with a pistol! Almost all head shots!"

 

When you hand out experience, you could also give them a PSL vs. Hit Locations to make things a little easier on them. Or you could reduce Hit Location Penalties from the published standards. Or maybe the PCs are going to have to get a little smarter about things, and start hacking zombies in half with a lawnmower blade or blowing them up with tanks of propane. There's more than one way to skin a zombie.

[sbarron]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I wouldn't worry about rolling damage for shots to the head. If you hit a zombie with a killing attack in the head, it dies. That's the way the genre works.

 

Depending on how many points your characters are, I might suggest either halving called shot modifiers (-4 for head shot) or lowering the zombies DCV. It's not like the zombies are trying to avoid getting hit, right? So you can justify their being easier to target for head shots. (And aren't there rules about attacking things that are not in combat? Maybe you could treat all zombies as if they were not in combat, for the same reasons as above.)

 

Also, maybe the zombies you're using (from the bestiary?) are kind of tough for this genre. The average normal person in Hero is generally understood to have an 8 DEX and a 2 SPD. Just because a person becomes a Zombie is no reason to raise their DEX or SPD. Most PCs (even if you play 25/25) will have OCVs of at least 5 or so, and a SPD of 3. So if the players are smart, they'll be able to handle these zombies in ones or two with little trouble. Zombies in large groups will be a problem, though. Again, this simulates the genre.

 

Combat luck. You also might want to consider giving the PCs a free point or 2 of combat luck. It'll give them an "almost bit me" chance in the event a zombie were to hit them with a bite. Further, you could rule that a zombie has to grab a PC before it can bite them. It'll give the PC an extra phase to save themselves, and some time for the rest of the group to help out.

 

Hope this helps.

[Max Callahan]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Another thing you might want to consider is giving the Zombies a OCV penalty with Bite given that a bite is a much harder attack to land than a punch/kick. Perhaps the -3 to OCV for non-proficiency is appropriate.

I'll also suggest the 45 point level of "Takes no stun" where any hit that does body causes the automaton to lose one of {one Power, 10 STR, 1 SPD, 1 normal sense} for the blowing chunks off effect.

[Blue]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Man, we're all depraved. I too was watching the Dawn of the Dead remake and thinking about how I'd simulate the genre in Hero System.

 

First, I'd give zombies their own hit location chart, with a slightly larger sweet spot:

3-8: HEAD

9-18: BODY

 

If you don't want to roll randomly then it's only a -3 to target the head.

 

Head hits are indeed terminal. Hits elsewhere do nothing but stop the attacker and prevent it's next action (as if stunned). This is important with the quantity with which you throw zombies at folks.

 

All the PCs would be 50/50. Disads could be things like, "Psych: Often caught in inconvenient moments of reflection inches from a potential zombie" and "Psych: Often walks backwards without glancing back when in danger". Thow out "Weapon familiarity" because pretty much anyone can use any weapon, no matter how extreme it is.

 

Dismembering a zombie is possible, though not lethal. The parts continue to live.

 

Zombies would have a 1/2D6K Bite with a continuous effect and a linked "Transformation: To living dead" that only happens when the person finally hits 0 BODY.

[Prometheus]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I'd drop zombie stats to 8 DEX and 2 SPD regardless of who they might of been in life. Most characters in zombie movies can take (or at least fend off) a zombie one-on-one, it's the mobs and surprise attacks that get them.

 

For this genre, biting could be a maneuver. Maybe something that follows a Grab, like a Crush, since most zombies don't lead with their chin. That'll give the PC's a little more survivability and give the zombies a reason to mob up and drag down a victim.

[sbarron]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I'd drop zombie stats to 8 DEX and 2 SPD regardless of who they might of been in life.

 

I agree in general. Though I was thinking that if any of the PCs ever go down, it would be fun to let them keep their stats. It would make them more dangerous than normal, and that would be scarier for the group. And I wouldn't let the group know about it in advance. It would just be a bigger, faster, flesh eating surprise.

[Solomon]

I'd rule that, for a human-shaped zombie, a bite must follow a Grab. The -2 OCV penalty imposed by a Grab should give your players some respite.

Another option might be to apply a rule on weapon length. A character with an HTH weapon, even an improvised one, would be at a distinct advantage over an unarmed zombie. There are rules on this subject in Ultimate Martial Artist, pages 164-165.

 

Other than that, there might be story-based solutions.

Have them find a gun, but very limited ammo. This would be quite genre-approriate.

Give your players a terrain advantage. Are your Zombies clumsy? Your players should be able to exploit this. Zombies might have difficulties jumping over an ostacle, or balancing on a narrow ledge. Or your players might slow their Zombie tormentors with improvised entangles - scavenged fishing nets, ropes, etc.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I strongly agree with giving "bite" an OCV (and probably DCV) penalty, and probably making it a "follow grab" maneuver. Difficult to get a good hunk out of something you don't have a hold of.

 

An aware normal human faced with one zombie should be able to avoid it fairly easily and take it out with some effort or a good shot. The danger should be by surprise (when OCV penalties for zombies will be less of a problem) and large groups (nowhere to go, several grab, enabling multiple bites).

 

How do the zombies in the world "work"? If the PC's can figure some of this out, this will help give them an edge. If the zombies are attracted to flesh/meat, then toss a pack of hamburger at the crowd and run. If they are voodoo-related, maybe salt can affect them - shotgun load of rock salt will down one, regardless of hit location. If occult based, maybe holy ground can offer sanctuary (other than graveyards, I would guess) and holy water/object might help. Etc.

 

Allow some cheap combat skill levels "only for head shots" to reduce the penalties.

 

To represent the zombies being slow/dim, make a lot of things that would normally be casual or half-phase actions a full phase. The zombie opens a door - full phase. The zombie stands up - full phase (this one is especially useful, as it allows PCs to knock a zombie down and have a good chance of escape). Etc.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Maybe give heavy clothes a bit of armor value? Unless the zombies bite much harder than normal humans, they will have a bit of trouble getting through a leather jacket or steel-toed boot to draw blood.

 

Can help to add to the drama this way too - "The zombie bites down hard on your shoulder. It hurts, but you don't THINK that he's gotten to the meat yet. What do you do?" Places them in danger without being immediately fatal. Plus, in this example, the PC may ditch the jacket as a way of escaping this particular zombie - though now they have lost some of their protection. Good choice to force on players in horror/survival situation. And how welcoming will other PC's be when the character comes back with bite marks all over their clothes?

[sbarron]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I checked the rules, and sure enough, targets not in combat have the modifiers for called shots againsty them halved. So ruling that zombies don't realize they are in combat (because they are dead) allows for a much more reasonable -4 OCV head shot.

 

Hey Nexus! Have you had a chance to give these new rules a try? How is the game going? I'd appreciate it if you could keep us up to date on the survival rates of your PCs...

[nexus]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I checked the rules, and sure enough, targets not in combat have the modifiers for called shots againsty them halved. So ruling that zombies don't realize they are in combat (because they are dead) allows for a much more reasonable -4 OCV head shot.

 

Hey Nexus! Have you had a chance to give these new rules a try? How is the game going? I'd appreciate it if you could keep us up to date on the survival rates of your PCs...

 

Its improved a great deal, yet the zombies remain a credible threat. I can't go into too much detail (some of my players are on here) but now they aren't dropping quite so fast. Now, if they would only be a -little- smarter.

[Sociotard]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I'll second the distribution of combat levels only to hit in the head. Or you could just alter the zombies hit location table.

 

A sawed off shotgun could, at close range, be handy. They make head shots all the easier.

 

Does garlic work. Some of the older zombie flicks use that convention, as well as aversion to sunlight, or bright lights in general.

[nexus]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

I'll second the distribution of combat levels only to hit in the head. Or you could just alter the zombies hit location table.

 

A sawed off shotgun could, at close range, be handy. They make head shots all the easier.

 

Does garlic work. Some of the older zombie flicks use that convention, as well as aversion to sunlight, or bright lights in general.

 

They're "techno" zombies. There's a couple of things but the players will have to find them out.

[i3ullseye]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

Well, as an avid gore and horror fanatic let me add my few bits of advice.

 

1) you can always add a zero. If there are 5 zombies in the hall, why not 50? 50 is always better than 5. Through sheer numbers and attrition they will eventually wear down even the moset prepared fresh-meats.

 

2) Ammo does not reload itself, so running out of ammo should be a real threat. And after they CAN'T take em out form teh safety of their sissy perches, make them get down and dirty in a swarm of 40 or so to even make it to the restroom. And trying to fight while you are pinching one off has got to be worth -2 at least, so make them suffer.

 

3) Infection need not be only form the undead. it is hard to keep wounds clean and food prepared well in a post undead holocaust hell. Luckily our heros (the zombies) have no fear of infection or tetanus like the weak pinkies do.

 

4) Also lucky for our interpid heroes (the zombies) they need never sleep, but the merely mortal blood sacs do. And when they sleep they are more easily surprised and overun. If they are deprived of that sleep, then they are normally much easier to run down and get a taste of.

 

So there are a few of my ideas.... but...wait..... seems you wanted advide to HELP the poor cattle running around? Well, i always seem to root for the wrong guys in these affairs, so i am note sure I can help ya much there.

 

hehe.....

 

The link to this changed a while ago, but I have had this in my favorites for quite a while now. Twilight!

[tkdguy]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

With all the suggestions posted here, I think your next post will be "Help, my PCs are eating zombies!"

 

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[Southern Cross]

Help, PCs are eating my Zombies!

 

NOT A GOOD IDEA.Logically,given their extreme infectivity,having normal humans eat Zombie flesh should transform them into Zombies!!!

(Which implies that their Transform Power should be bought as an Uncontrolled Persistent Damage Shield that's Always On,and with the Power limitation Only If Infectious Agent enters Bloodstream).

[nexus]

Re: Help, PCs are eating my Zombies!

 

NOT A GOOD IDEA.Logically,given their extreme infectivity,having normal humans eat Zombie flesh should transform them into Zombies!!!

(Which implies that their Transform Power should be bought as an Uncontrolled Persistent Damage Shield that's Always On,and with the Power limitation Only If Infectious Agent enters Bloodstream).

 

Not to mention its just gross!

[i3ullseye]

Re: Help, Zombies are eating my PCs!

 

But is it quite as gross with Mayonaisse?

 

Overall horror is actually a rea hard genre to pull off. I used to run Chill quite a bit, and you have to have a real dedicated group to really get itno a horror game. And I don't mean the pretentious WOD set, where you ARE the dark ones....

 

Nice thing about Zombies in general is the mystery is irrelevant. the setting is irrelevant. No thought, no plans, nothing. Just a sense of hoeplessness and isolation, even when you are in a crowd... It makes for better gaming since you are not trying to actually 'scare' the players, but the sense of dread is very easily attained.

 

Real problem becomes turning it into an ongoing campaign. One shot is great, few stories are fine, but how do characters survive for any length of time during a zombie holocaust and not grow to be less scared of them? Less threatened by them?

 

Thats when you have to bring in the rival living human groups, willing to kill others to keep what is theirs in the zombie infested hell.