etherio Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Just sharing... We've developed a set of house rules for hit locations that works well. It's best for those who like things a bit more lethal in their games, but it's not really unbalancing. A Word file of our character sheet is attached, so you can check out our hit location chart (you'll need to, in order to follow this). Here's how it works: Same as normal, except that every time a character attempts a targetable attack, he chooses a specific hit location from the chart. (If he fails to choose, the default is location 11.) If he succeeds by the "Auto Hit" number for that location (the "to hit" mod for targeting that location in the normal rules), then he hits the location he chose. If he succeeds, but not by that number, then he rolls for hit location. His roll is modified by the "Mod" number for the location he targeted, and the result is the actual location hit. What the "Mod" does is center the bell curve on the targeted location. A modified number that is off the chart (less than 3 or greater than 18 for most attacks) is a miss. You aimed too high or low, basically. There are no "high shot" or "low shot" maneuvers in this system. For attacks that are inherently high or low (such as a punch or a non-martial kick), use the appropriate column. For punches and the like, roll 2d6 with the "Mod" number; for kicks and such, roll 2d6/2 with the "Mod" (no, not 1d6, we need a distribution curve). This might seem weird at first, but it's easy and fun. Try this alternative next time you play a scenario that uses hit locations. I bet you'll like it. Ciao. Editing: I removed the attachments from this post. Zornwil has graceously hosted the info on his house rules page at http://www.realschluss.org/disavowed/house_rules/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Interesting idea. Your chart is a bit more detailed than the standard chart, which can have its advantages. If I were running a Highlander campaign, you can be sure my players would often aim for the neck (location 4 in your chart). Very nice. Thank you for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Thats gotta be one of the best modifications to the standard Hit Location rules I've seen in a long time. Excellent work. Of course, I'd probably never use it. While it's well thought out, It adds a bit too much math than I like to combat. It's enough for me to just say "you blow lands, roll damage" or even roll that extra 3d6 and say "your kick connects with his right shoulder, roll damage." While it's not much, checking and double checking not only modifiers but to see if a successful hit stays successful it a bit much. That, and it allows a 3 to miss, which in my opinion goes against the metarules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location You could always just use the hit location chart without the extra rules or say anything under a 3 is a hit instead of a miss. I'd personally just use the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Its been a while, but the last time I ran a campaign with the Hit Location rules what we did was just roll to hit, determine what location it struck, and then you could "push" the hit to a location within however much you made the to-hit roll by. So if you made the to-hit roll by 2 for example you could modify the location roll by +/-2 points to determine where you hit. Very lethal option by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location I like that option. KS, you never seem torun out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location I like that option. KS' date=' you never seem torun out of ideas.[/quote'] Thanx. Its all caffeine inspired, so if you drink enough NAR-Cola you too will have an endless tap on ideas! (Endorsement paid for by NAR-Cola) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Personally, I've been tapped out for a long time. God, I miss Jolt Cola! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location The extra rules are meant to reflect the fact that people pretty much always aim at a part of the body when they're swingin' or shootin' at somebody. Plus, aiming at locations is just plain fun, and it's too hard to be worth trying unless one's CSLs are through the roof. Imagine this typical scenario: Baddie of the moment is wearing bulletproof armor covering most locations. Unless you're a super-shot, good luck trying to aim for his unprotected upper arms and hit. Even if you squeeze off enough and succeed, the official rules will play out a bunch of total misses until voila! Got him right in the soft spot. That just doesn't jibe. Cinematic "realism" calls for some bullets to bounce off his other locations as you zero in. My system does this a little better. You could always just use the hit location chart without the extra rules or say anything under a 3 is a hit instead of a miss. I'd personally just use the former. Having modified rolls that go off the chart count as misses serves two purposes: 1) It reflects the fact that you miss by degrees relative to where you were aiming (a little high when you're aiming at the stomach still hits something...not so when you aim at the face) 2) It's a check on abuse...the bell curve centers on the location you chose, remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location First, thanks for the positive feedback, m'man. And I have a response to this statement: ...it allows a 3 to miss' date=' which in my opinion goes against the metarules.[/quote'] Not so. I probably should have clarified that point, but I assumed metarules. A 3 hits, and it hits what you were aiming for. Works just like any "Hail Mary" shot could in the official rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Ah, that's very very cool. We generally don't use the Hit Location Charts in my campaign, though we're supposed to (we only remember for Killing Attacks, but so far it works for us). I'll bring up your method at our next game and see everybody thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location A long time ago, I tried to come up with a modified hit location chart to represent hits from the rear. Realistically, it seems to me that the modifiers wouldn't be the same. A hit to the back of the head isn't going to hurt as much as a hit to the face. After all, the back of the skull is thicker than the front. Likewise, for location 13, a hit to the buttocks is not going to be as damaging as a hit to the crotch. However, a hit to the lower back (kidneys), say, location 12, is going to be more lethal than the equivalent hit to location 12 from the front (belly). Have any of you done anything like this? Any ideas? And yes, this level of detail is probably more complicated than it's worth, but some of us can be obsessive about such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location You bring up a good point. I was thinking of that problem myself. Maybe you can reduce the amount of BODY done to the less vulnerable areas for certain blows. Then again, while the back of the skull can take some damage, there's a pressure point where the skull and the neck join (I've felt it personally). So for that location (choose either 3, 4, or 5) there should be normal damage done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Have any of you done anything like this? Any ideas? And yes, this level of detail is probably more complicated than it's worth, but some of us can be obsessive about such things. As a GM, I just use common sense. This actually just happend last night in a practice combat with one of my players. She got shot from behind and I rolled a 12 on the table. We just declaired it was actually a "vitals" shot (kidneys) but didn't adjust the modifiers. I really don't think there's a need to adjust the table or the modifiers as far as facing goes. Chest could just as easily be Upper Back, and Stomach could be Lower Back, each keeping their modifiers to damage. Everything else could be hit from any angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location did you used to play aftermath? iirc, it used a similar system, with 30 hit locations. Just sharing... We've developed a set of house rules for hit locations that works well. It's best for those who like things a bit more lethal in their games, but it's not really unbalancing. A Word file of our character sheet is attached, so you can check out our hit location chart (you'll need to, in order to follow this). Here's how it works: Same as normal, except that every time a character attempts a targetable attack, he chooses a specific hit location from the chart. (If he fails to choose, the default is location 11.) If he succeeds by the "Auto Hit" number for that location (the "to hit" mod for targeting that location in the normal rules), then he hits the location he chose. If he succeeds, but not by that number, then he rolls for hit location. His roll is modified by the "Mod" number for the location he targeted, and the result is the actual location hit. What the "Mod" does is center the bell curve on the targeted location. A modified number that is off the chart (less than 3 or greater than 18 for most attacks) is a miss. You aimed too high or low, basically. There are no "high shot" or "low shot" maneuvers in this system. For attacks that are inherently high or low (such as a punch or a non-martial kick), use the appropriate column. For punches and the like, roll 2d6 with the "Mod" number; for kicks and such, roll 2d6/2 with the "Mod" (no, not 1d6, we need a distribution curve). This might seem weird at first, but it's easy and fun. Try this alternative next time you play a scenario that uses hit locations. I bet you'll like it. Ciao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Anyone give the system a try yet? If so, let me know what your impressions were... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location did you used to play aftermath? iirc' date=' it used a similar system, with 30 hit locations.[/quote'] Sorry...missed this question. No, I've never played Aftermath. The inspiration came from a supremely crappy old game called MERC that had a sort of cool template for determining hit-location while sniping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Anyone give the system a try yet? If so' date=' let me know what your impressions were...[/quote'] Not yet, but my apprentice (Descant) and I plan to experiment with it during her GM training. I have a few questions concerning "high" and "low" shots though. Exactly how does this work with your system? Traditionally, "high" HTH attacks, such a punches take a 2d6+1 Hit Location roll, and "low" attacks a 2d6+7. I don't understand how this tranfers to 2d6 and 2d6/2 on your charts. I see colums for High and Low, but I'm not sure how those modifiers are used. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location ...I have a few questions concerning "high" and "low" shots though. Exactly how does this work with your system?...Thanks. No problem... First, it's important to remember that, unlike in the official HERO method, there is no such thing as choosing a "high shot" or "low shot" maneuver in this system. An attacker always aims at a particular location. What the system does is make attacks that are not-quite-dead-on tend to cluster around the location aimed for. That said, the "High Mod" and "Low Mod" columns on our chart are only used for situations like punching, stabbing with a dagger, kicking, or attacking a mounted opponent, where the attack should not be able to potentially hit all locations. When a punching-type hit spread is called for, roll 2d6 and add the "High Mod" column modifier for the targeted location (Upper Arms is the default if none is called). That is, of course, if the attacker did not automatically hit his intended location by making his roll by the "Auto Hit" margin for that location. For kicking-type spreads, roll 2d6 divided by 2 and use the "Low Mod" (with Calves being the default location). This is just as simple to use, but maybe not as intuitive to understand. One might ask, "Why not just roll 1d6?" The answer is that we need a bell curve for the system to operate as intended. One might also observe, "2d6/2 has a result of 1 to 6...how will that hit locations 13 through 18?" The answer is that a target location is always chosen, so there will always be a "Low Mod" number to bring it to that range. As with a general 3 to 18 hit location attack, a "high" or "low" shot is considered a miss when the modified hit location roll is off the chart. For these kinds of attacks, "off the chart" includes those locations where a double dash appears in the respective "Mod" column. EXAMPLE: My hands tied behind my back and desperate, I try for a kick at the brigand holding me at swordpoint... Since my attack is a non-martial kick, I am restricted to hitting locations 13 through 18. I (being the typical RPG gamer) go for it and aim for the Vitals. I roll to hit...Vitals has an "Auto Hit" of -8. I made my to-hit roll, but not by 8...so I have to roll for hit location. I roll 2d6/2...for a result of 2...apply the "Low Mod" for Vitals (+9)...for a total of 11. That's a miss...and that's what I get for being greedy, I guess. It could, however have been very different. I see how this might seem complicated, but it's really not. The system becomes second nature very quickly. I recommend it particularly for games with a lot of swordplay, but it'll work just as well for guns and the like. Enjoy, and let me know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location The first criticism that many point out about this hit location system is that an attack that was initially a hit could become a miss. Remember: 1) Players don't have to aim at wild locations, like the head or hands. Aiming at the default locations (Upper Chest for the standard attack) means that a successful hit cannot become a miss through modifiers on the hit location chart. That's why cops are trained to aim at the torso...not the head. 2) By aiming at a location, the bell chart is centered over that location, making it more likely to be hit. The potential for the shot being modified to a miss is a control on player abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location It is an interesting chart. I am curious if has increased the lethality of your game? I assume that if no one 'picks' a target on the chart it is assumed to be 'ribs/11-'. If this is the case it normally would not change much. I don't see the ability to target other locations as an opportunity to turn a 'hit' into a 'miss' as much as making it too easy to hit otherwise hard targets. Say a character is sniping at someone who has visible body armor (kevlar) but not complete head coverage. They aim at the face, they are getting a double chance at a direct hit with better odds it seems: If I hit by 8 more than the target's normal DCV, I hit the target in the head. (same as normal rules.) If I hit the target's normal DCV but not by the 8 extra I go to your chart and get the chance that a secondary roll of 11,12 and 13 also give me a head shot! (Wow, definitely not same a normal rules!) It's been a long while since I took a statistics class in college but this appears to increase my chances of getting X2 Body with no OCV downside except for the risk of some hits going HIGH. Way more lethal than standard rules in my opinion. Not a criticism, just an observation. I know many players of heroic games look for different ways to make the game more lethal. This appears to be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location ...I don't see the ability to target other locations as an opportunity to turn a 'hit' into a 'miss' as much as making it too easy to hit otherwise hard targets... When aiming at a location, remember that an attacker applies a modifier to the hit location roll...that centers the bell curve around the point aimed at. However, if the modified roll is off the chart, it's a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location When aiming at a location' date=' remember that an attacker applies a modifier to the hit location roll...that centers the bell curve around the point aimed at. However, if the modified roll is off the chart, it's a miss.[/quote'] I agree it makes the chart seem fair. I'll try it out with some practice combats over the next week and let you know what happens. Thanks for the clarification! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Etherio, thanks for posting this. I am curious - what genre(s) and power-level(s) have you applied this to? I run Champions, fairly high-powered, and I don't use hit locations at all. While this is interesitng and thoughtful, I don't really see applying it to superheroics as I prefer the "fuzziness" within that genre. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on my (brief) statements as well as the question. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted April 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Re: House Rules for Hit Location Etherio' date=' thanks for posting this. I am curious - what genre(s) and power-level(s) have you applied this to? I run Champions, fairly high-powered, and I don't use hit locations at all. While this is interesitng and thoughtful, I don't really see applying it to superheroics as I prefer the "fuzziness" within that genre...[/quote'] I'm right now running a supers campaign, and I I don't use hit locations at all in this campaign. I agree, hit location rolls have no place in a typical four-color supers game. However, when our group plays HERO scale stuff (fantasy, usually) we do use them. We play-tested it in a game where I had the pleasure of experiencing the system from a player's perspective (a rare and wondrous occasion). I feel it really made both HTH and ranged combat more fun. It fixes what I've always felt is a weakness in most games. When you launch an attack as a PC, you imagine it as an uppercut for the jaw or a sword lunge for the midsection...not as a wild swing for any old part of the body. In the official rules, PCs just don't have a reasonable chance for aiming at locations, unless they're super-aces with their OCV. This alternate system puts them more into combat. Imagine how much this system would improve a HERO Highlander game, and you'll see what I mean. Simulating Immortals in HERO would mean each combatant taking shots and hoping wildly for a neck hit, or taking shots at -8 and hitting either the neck or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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