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"Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1


mayapuppies

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Hello all,

 

First let me thank all of you who have helped me with my questions, in particular Killer Shrike. I've found this forum to be very friendly and incredibly helpfull.

 

Ok, do you all feel buttered up yet?

 

Well, I've finely "seen the light" as it were, for utilizing MPP's for spell-casters and will be adjusting my magic system appropriately. This will, hopefully, place spell-casters a bit more on par with the other less-enchanted characters.

 

Now in my game world, the God of Magic is a rather nasty individual with a real bad attitude but is a joy if you're into lies, deceipt and crushing your victims emotionally and spiritually. He's also fond of the "power corupts" philosophy. Thus, any magic that is not drawn from a deity or spirit tends to be avoided by mortals. However, this wasn't always the case and much earlier in the worlds history there were many different schools of magic.

 

Taking a cue from my most hallowed days with Rolemaster, I have three separate "Types" of Magic: External, Internal and Spiritual, I'm debating on a fourth (Elemental) but haven't quite decided.

 

Within these types, the practitioners have developed their own styles, or schools (This is where I shamelessly rip-off all of Killer Shrikes wonderful work). The External "type" of magic is the corrupted one, and this is what most of your traditional Mages utilize.

 

Now the Curse that is placed on External Magic is a slow and steady corruption of mind and body, until the Mage is nothing more than a gibbering flesh-like mass that howls in agony with the slaughter of others bringing the beast only a moments relief from its torment.

 

Ok, so there's no cure for this condition...or is there? Legends tell of a select few who have been able to stop the Curse and gain great power and others who have completely rid themselves of it...these are, of course, merely rumors created by the God to give people hope in being able to best the Curse :whistle:, thus drawing in more aspirants.

 

Now here's my quandry. I would like to have a very specific table of progression laid out for how long it takes for this transformation to take place based on the amount of External Magic the character utilizes and build a limitation that is required for all spells created in this "Type". This serves as a way to make the spells cheaper and thus "more powerful" which will feed the players own natural tendency to "get power". The roadblock I'm hitting is how to actually build this in the HERO system without taking away points from the character or, even worse, giving him/her extra points. I'm not familiar at all with how Transform works in practice and from what I've read, it really doesn't fit the bill.

 

So any help you can lend on this would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Now here's my quandry. I would like to have a very specific table of progression laid out for how long it takes for this transformation to take place based on the amount of External Magic the character utilizes and build a limitation that is required for all spells created in this "Type". This serves as a way to make the spells cheaper and thus "more powerful" which will feed the players own natural tendency to "get power". The roadblock I'm hitting is how to actually build this in the HERO system without taking away points from the character or' date=' even worse, giving him/her extra points. I'm not familiar at all with how Transform works in practice and from what I've read, it really doesn't fit the bill.[/quote']

 

Well, it seems that you already know what what results you want to accomplish. Rather than send a lot of time trying to hammer out limitations or side effects, adjusting the lims and points for all the corrupting spells, etc., I'm going to suggest an idea that some might find heretical for Hero. Keep it simple and just USE the details you've already thought out. You can just give all spells of this sfx a boost (an extra die, 20% more effect, whatever...) and just keep track of the resulting corruption.

 

An example would be that each corrupt spell cast give you 1 corruption point. A certain number of corruption points advances you on the list of effects you have in mind. Whip up a table with the list of corruption point ranges and desired effects. Come up with a consistent and simple way to give corrupting spells a little more omph! without a lot of bookeeping. This is what game designers do all the time when they're writing up a game system. If you need permission :) the GMB allows you to increase the effectiveness of some sfx based on a local situation or effect.

 

You've already done the design in your head - don't worry too much about getting everything codified in Hero terms and get on with playing the game :) The idea is to get to the fun part without wasting a lot of time worrying about the bookeeping if the extra paperwork isn't going to give you any benefits.

 

!DrFURIOUS!

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

For a rules version......

 

Cumulative Transform... 1 pip per casting.

 

So each time the total hits twice the casters body score, the transform occurs. Then feed this into a combined effect, and a negative effect. It may take a 5 point build up before the effects are apparent, and then they work toward he next level. Something like....

 

the Curse

-2 Com (1 point)

-1/2 Ego (1 points) [this will drop 1 pt per 2 levels gained]

Psych Lim (+1 toward the end resulting insanity which is a 15 pt disad)

+1 Int (cost 1 point)

+4 End (cost 2 points)

 

So then, once they reach 5 points in this curse.... they gain the mild version of the insanity disad. they have then earned 5 Int and 20 End... but lost 3 Ego (round up) and 10 Com. the rate of increase is based directly on the amount of spells cast, and the amount of body the curse has to overcome.

 

Alternately, since it is purely mental you could base the transform on Ego, but as the ego drops form the curse this could get viscious. But it woudl make sense... if they do not buy the dropping ego up, they are losing their resolve. The higher the ego, the longer they can cast before gaining a point.

 

And just to note... a normal human 10 woudl reqire then 20 spells to earn the 1 point rank. This seems pretty quick.

 

but a wizard with a 23 Ego woudl require 46 for each point break. You may want to limit the curse to certain active point levels of spells, or even a select few. or maybe 1 point per day if you want to stretch it out long. So then a common man woudl gain 1 point every 20 days.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Since you're trying to balance this against other magic systems I'd suggest using the existing rules as a loose guideline at least. Assign a -1/4 or -1/2 Corruption Side Effect and add custom corruption point rules or whatever you want to that.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Another thing to consider is the possibility that certain spells corrupt in certain ways. Forex, your typical attack spells will eventually make you violently insane, twist your hands into claws, and give you a taste for the blood and flesh of the living. Mental spells (TK, MC T'pathy, etc.) make your head bulbous and grotesque, cause you to become fat and Hutt-like, and make you relish the psychic screams of despair from your victims. The fun just never stops!

 

This could be the way your evil!magic!God gets new demons.

 

Also, if it were me, I would have a way to cleanse oneself of the taint of evil!magic. Perhaps you have to forego magic for a stretch of time, or undergo a quest for certain deities, whatever. Maybe it only works if you do it before a certain point (After the second Mark or Darkness, it is too late!). This way, your PCs have a chance to use the icky-bad powers and still come back. If you go the "gods can cleanse you" route, make it so that they don't do it very often; you have to earn the gift, and coming back for it again says you only deserve death.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Something I have done for currupting magic is allowed it to have a -1/4 limitation "Currupted". Then the system i used is as follows.

 

The curruption of magic is a slow and insiious prosses taking from years to decades. Although many have studied it and tried to determain a rime or reason it seams all know ways of mesuring ar predidicting its effects have failed. (Imaine it like Cancer in real life we know it is there we know certain things are carcenagens we simply canot predict it.)

 

Game mechanics

 

The GM sets his curruption rate or number (I use 100 which is usualy 2-5 spells) on any given week the character uses this many cumalative active points of magic or more the GM secretly rolls an activation number of 3-or less. However its not quite that simple for every doubling of the curruption point the character suffers and increase in curruption probabilaty. The resulting chart is listed bellow. Every time the character "Makes" the activation roll the GM give him one point of Permament Cummalative Transform vs. EGO when the mind is finaly turned the character is removed from player status. It is important to note that players do not get to keep track of their curruption level and only the GM should know the current level of Curruption.

 

Now for the Caotic twister... on any give time that the charater "Makes" his curruption roll the GM rolls a Second curruption roll. on a result of 4-or less the character is instantly struck with the curruption and will transform completly within the week. This has even been know to happen to new initiats before ever leaving the Guild halls although rare it surly puts the fright in those only casualy interested.

 

 

The great secret to evasion.

 

As a character that is being currupted it is said some have managed to wield these powers for centuries whithout falling to the plauge of curruption. Well a character with the characteristic of Luck bought at full cost (no breaks or cheating) has his activation roll reduced by one for every two full die of luck at the GM's option.

 

 

001-100 . . . -3

101-200 . . . -4

201-401 . . . -5

401-800 . . . -6

and so on...

 

Well what do you think?

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

That's an interesting approach. It would be great for a dark low-fantasy sort of game. Do the players know how the corruption rules work exactly or do you keep it a secret? If they knew the exact numbers, I could see problems with people metagaming it and casting until just below their limit or loading up on luck.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Sounds interesting.What also is interesting is,that I too have started with Rolemaster and played it for several years.When I finally decided to use FH instead of Rolemaster for several reasons,the only thing,that gave me hard time was actually the Magic System.But after FH being published and bit more experience in the Hero-System,I finally got my Magic System which is,as your system,is influenced by ICEs Rolemaster.Multipower with different aspects of magic(Channeling,Essence and Mentalism),a ManaPool(EndReserve) and powerful,old magic(Arcane Magic/Ritual Magic which can only be bought as single spells and have to be found in ruins or have to be teached by Archmages.Of course,I made my own changes,as the HeroSystem is very flexible and allows very different styles of magic and PlayerCharacters.Essence Users are not that strictly encumbered by wearing armor for example and some spellcasters have a quite unique magic system,as for example my Sword Dancers,who are Essence Users,but focus on the Essence by dancing which is part of their combat style.Mentalism Users are generally speaking no true spell caster.In Rolemaster,all who have Abilities beyond normal human limitations were considered spellcaster,but if you think of Monks for examle(Mentalism Users after Amthorian View),you can very well consider their magic as Ki-Powers,which would work differently and adds some flavour.Have fun.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Ah man i definitly would not think you would want to have the players know the "Exact" game mechanics or be allowed to follow their own progress out side of role play. However I would allow them to skim it to see if it is worth it to them.

 

 

PS: I could also see allowing the characters limitation value go up to -1/2 if you felt the characters would be using magic more often in your game such as in high fantasy or high adventure.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Wow! This is all great stuff, folks. Thanks!

 

I think I'm going to go with a combination of what Ndreare and i3ullseye suggested. I just need to hammer it out.

 

The_Saint: Yeah, I can't escape the great magic system in Rolemaster. It really just "makes sense" to me and really does a great job of classifying magic-users. :D

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

Another thing to consider is the possibility that certain spells corrupt in certain ways. Forex, your typical attack spells will eventually make you violently insane, twist your hands into claws, and give you a taste for the blood and flesh of the living. Mental spells (TK, MC T'pathy, etc.) make your head bulbous and grotesque, cause you to become fat and Hutt-like, and make you relish the psychic screams of despair from your victims. The fun just never stops!

 

This could be the way your evil!magic!God gets new demons.

This is actually a very cool idea as well and one I may have to pursue.

Also' date=' if it were me, I would have a way to cleanse oneself of the taint of evil!magic. Perhaps you have to forego magic for a stretch of time, or undergo a quest for certain deities, whatever. Maybe it only works if you do it before a certain point (After the second Mark or Darkness, it is too late!). This way, your PCs have a chance to use the icky-bad powers and still come back. If you go the "gods can cleanse you" route, make it so that they don't do it very often; you have to earn the gift, and coming back for it again says you only deserve death.[/quote']

I most definitely will have some method. Still working on that bit.

 

On a related topic, I do have a race that is immune (or at least resistant) to The Curse. How would I represent that in the racial package deal? I mean, it is a pretty significant thing that should have a points cost.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

On a related topic' date=' I do have a race that is immune (or at least resistant) to The Curse. How would I represent that in the racial package deal? I mean, it is a pretty significant thing that should have a points cost.[/quote']

If you end up doing the Curse as a NND Transform of some sort, then you could create an immunity to be the defense.

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Re: "Fantasy HERO general comments & ?" pt.1

 

If you want to get really nasty about it, make the only way to "cleanse" yourself of the Curse to do so by draining the accumulated "corruption" into another person. If you're suitably corrupted, you probably won't mind doing this to someone else, if indeed you feel the need to "cleanse" yourself at all; but once done and back to being a "decent" person, you'll have to live with the knowledge of what you inflicted on someone else.

 

In fact, this brings up a few interesting possibilities:

 

- Some holy orders may have highly regarded volunteers who agree to be locked away for life and thereafter to be the receptacles for the corrupting influences that are to be "cleansed" from those Cursed...a more extreme version of the old "sin eater" custom. Perhaps their holiness and self-sacrifice will prevent them from actually being turned into a demon, and they'll "only" die...or maybe they are noble beyond compare, giving up not only their human life but their humanity and their soul as well, knowing they have condemned themselves to become a demon serving an evil god, all in the name of helping those Cursed.

 

- Those well along the road to corruption may kidnap people and keep them prisoner in dungeon cells so they may occassionally "drain off" some of the Curse into these hapless victims...not too much, of course, because being corrupted at least a little does have its advantages... It also raises the possiblity that these vile magicians may be slain by one of thier corrupted, twisted now-demonic captives when said former victim breaks loose! Or maybe the first hint that people have that this sort of hideous practice is being done is when one of these poor wretches escapes and either is taken for a demon when he tries to return home, or is in fact already unhinged and begins terrorizing the countryside as a murderous monster. In either of the latter two cases, it sounds like a job for the PCs...

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