Rifts HERO?

[tgrandjean]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Actually concerning Cybernetics and Bionics, they won't actually be recieving much of a point break: neither really qualify as a focus; they cannot be removed or lost easily. They are however, restrainable.

 

Re: Cyberdocs, Technowizards, and Mechanics etc: I'm inclined to let them buy their created gear via both points (built with Independent) and money. Part of the booty (so to speak) that they can aquire as they adventure includes points vested into the loot. Technology for the Mechanics, Docs, etc, and Crystals, Rare Metals, and Spell Type Foci items for the Magic using chaps.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Good call on the Independent (-2) Limitation on Cybernetics and Bionics.

I think that I will try that out.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Oops, I made a mistake, you meant gadgets and the like.

Anyway, I made another decision: eliminate Package Deals, and just have the players look at the OCCs so they get a good idea of how to fit into the setting.

[shadow_walker]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

*snorting laugh*

 

Ditto

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

So by extension, what my idea (which I imagine by some posts has already been used) is meant to mean, is that a character could be a Crazy, but only have the physical enhancements, or only the sensory enhancements, or only the mental powers, etc. Not every Full Bionic Conversion is going to be the same, Magic is taught differently but to the same effect as we are all taught normal knowledge, and so on and so forth.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I got the Game Master's Guide, which is quite useful for converting weapons, armor, vehicles, and is generally good as a reference to other books.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

For the longest time, there has been an inherent (+1/4) chink in the conversion armor.

 

In Rifts, Mega-Damage is frequently referred to as giving a guy in a suit and pistol the capability to do the damage that tanks today do, or more, but with the current scale that I use this just isn't possible.

 

Take for instance the Glitter Boy. Main Body 770 MDC, Boom Gun does 3d6x10 MDC (Standard Effect: 90 MDC)

 

Under my current conversion method, just figure the MDC as SDC (77,000 SDC; 9000 SDC), and find it's nearest corresponding place on the Active Point Geometric Scale (80 Active Points; 65 Active Points).

 

If you check the HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook and compare these to the Tanks in there, this Glitter Boy doesn't stand much of a chance, on average, against even the weakest tank.

 

So, I got to thinking about it, and using simple semantics, let's look at the word Mega, which literally indicates a base quantity x 10^6, or one million.

 

For conversion purposes, let's pretend that MDC means SDC x 10^6; 1 MDC = 1,000,000 SDC.

 

It's easier to use logarithmic calculation at this higher end of the scale, but I'll just show the answers.

 

Let's go back to the Glitter Boy (770 MDC -> 770,000,000 SDC -> 30 DEF and BODY; 90 MDC -> 90,000,000 SDC -> 26 DCs) v Those tanks.

 

Now if we compare this new result, this Glitter Boy would utterly decimate even the strongest Tank.

 

Here's a pretty accurate chart of MDC --> DCs/DEF:

 

MDC DCs/DEF

1 --> 20

2 --> 21

3-5 --> 22

6-11 --> 23

12-23 --> 24

24-47 --> 25

48-94 --> 26

95-189 --> 27

190-378 --> 28

379-756 --> 29

757-1512 --> 30

+1-x2 --> +1

 

Now this changes a lot, as you can see.

Things like Active Points, Power Levels, Character Costs, etc., and that is my new problem.

[AlHazred]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

It's also probably closer to what Mr. Siembieda intended. Personally, I don't like the idea of a GB decimating modern tanks. Were I to do it in Hero, I'd probably tweak the numbers to make a GB roughly equal tanks, or slightly overpower them but with less in the way of backup systems and such. Besides the GB is more mobile, so it probably doesn't need to overpower the tank with firepower in order to stand a chance against it.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Perhaps a compromise?

MDC = x10,000

770 MDC = 23 DEF/ 23 BODY

90 MDC = 20 Damage Classes

No slouch either; Tanks stand a better chance, but will still probably lose, and MDC still comes off very powerful.

[AlHazred]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

 

[UltraRob]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I'm about to start a RIFTS campaign using the MEGS system (there are reasons I couldn't use HERO, otherwise I would have) and I tried doing the conversion formula thing but found it just didn't work well. It tended to produce numbers clustered in an oddly small range that just felt weird. So, in the end, I sat down and said "well, assuming "megadamage" just means "really tough" I'm not going to bother to even try to convert it over. Instead I took the laser pistol from the basic book and said "okay, a WILKS pistol should be the equivalent of this because it's the most basic energy weapon from the game" and then said "okay, the most massive weapon in the game is a Boom Gun, which should be able to take out a modern tank in one good hit, so how much would that be?" and figured it out. That became my range for weapon and armour damage, and I went from there. Everything else slid neatly into place.

 

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.

 

Rob

[Rifter]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.

Rob

 

Do you have a conversion scale for Rifts and can you show it?

I try to convert Rifts to Hero System to, but as I'm a starter in the Hero System, I realy appreciate any conversion hints .

[Almafeta]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

 

 

Here's the one I used a year or so ago:

 

Glitter-Boy (89 points)

Package Skills (27 points). Combat Driving (Base+1, 5 points), Demolitions (Base+2, 7 points); EF: Weapons (1 point), Electronics (Base+1, 5 points); Navigation (Base, 2 points), Radio (Base+1, 3 points), TF: Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (1 point), WF: Energy Pistol, Energy Rifle, Rail Guns (3 point).

Nickname of Glitter Boy (Frequently, Minor, Not All Cultures, -5 points)

Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (62 points). (STR 35; BODY 50 (35 points); -2 DCV (5 points); -5" KB; DEF 24 (66 points); DEX 8 (-6); NCM Movement Multiplier *4 (5 points); Leap 24m (24 points); and Suit Powers (189 points).)

Laser-resistant coating (Suit power, 20 points). Energy reduction 50% (30 Active Points); Only Works Against Lasers (-1/2).

Boom Gun (Suit power, 120 points). RKA 8d6 (120 points) with Charges (100 shots in 40-round drums, 15 minutes to change a drum; +1/4) (150 Active Points); Gestures (Must put pylons down taking three rounds or else take 6" knockback when firing, -1/4).

Sonic Boom (Suit Power, 31 points) Flash Hearing Group 6d6 (30 points) with Megascale (80m radius, +1/4) (38 points); Linked (Boom Gun, -1/4).

Thermo-Image/UV (Suit Power, 8 points)

+1 Initiative (Suit Power, 2 points). DEX +1 (3 active points); Only To Act First In Phase (-1).

+2 to Breakfall (Suit Power, 4 points).

+2 to Hit With Boom Gun (Suit Power, 4 points)

Shiny (Suit Power, Concealable, Major, -15 points)

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

The reason that I search for a good conversion method is so that I can whip out a new character or piece of equipment with minimal time.

Between college and work, I can get busy, and not in the carnal way.

 

So let's take three different looks at a Wilk's Laser Pistol.

All three methods that I have mentioned could be dubbed as follows:

1. Low-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x100) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 300 SDC -> 8 DCs

 

2. Mid-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x10,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 30,000 SDC -> 15 DCs

 

3. High Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x1,000,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 3,000,000 SDC -> 22 DCs

[AlHazred]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Here's the one I used a year or so ago:

Very nice! I note your willingness to put it here, when I'm pretty sure you've refused to do so on RPG.net. Pretty clever!

 

I like it, though I note that you seem to have included some skills of your own devising. "Radio (Base+1, 3 points)" would seem to be shorthand for "Systems Operations: Radio" at the same cost, but what is "EF: Weapons (1 point)"?

[AlHazred]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

The reason that I search for a good conversion method is so that I can whip out a new character or piece of equipment with minimal time. Between college and work' date=' I can get busy, and not in the carnal way.[/quote']Been there, done that. From experience, let me tell you that no matter how good a conversion is, you always find places where you need to tweak the results. It's as it should be, I think - a GM should always inflict encounters on his players with full knowledge of the results, knowledge that can best be gained by checking over every stat. My advice: recruit Board members to do some of the dirty work. Splitting up tasks would seem to be a good way to go about it, as the background is rich enough for many fans to find independent areas of work that they each enjoy.

 

So let's take three different looks at a Wilk's Laser Pistol.

All three methods that I have mentioned could be dubbed as follows:

1. Low-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x100) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 300 SDC -> 8 DCs

 

2. Mid-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x10,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 30,000 SDC -> 15 DCs

 

3. High Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x1,000,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 3,000,000 SDC -> 22 DCs

See, now, at the High Powered end, I think RIFTS characters could conceivably only be challenged by Epic-level D&D characters and by Exalted characters (both also converted to Hero, of course).

[Gonoan]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Wow it was nice to find this forum.

We have been playing Rifts since it came out and have house ruled the system to death. Last week we quit paying it because no matter how much you modify the rules you still end up with Palladiums bad rule base. Love the system Hate the rules. (and all the cut and paste in their books)

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

[Almafeta]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

 

Definately Sidekick ($7).

 

Since it's a bit barebones, you'll want to look here to see what conversions have already been done.

[Almafeta]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Very nice! I note your willingness to put it here, when I'm pretty sure you've refused to do so on RPG.net. Pretty clever!

 

I like it, though I note that you seem to have included some skills of your own devising. "Radio (Base+1, 3 points)" would seem to be shorthand for "Systems Operations: Radio" at the same cost, but what is "EF: Weapons (1 point)"?

 

Actually, I copied and pasted this right from the RPGnet thread, which you can find linked to in the "Other RPGs converted to HERO system" thread. (I had also made an 80% complete conversion to BESM d20 -- only had mecha and spells left -- but that got pulled...)

 

"EF" is an "Engineering Familiarity," a takeoff on WFs and TFs. Because the RIFTS setting has so many different technologies (many of which do the same things, but in different ways), and the balkanization of civilization is an important part of the backdrop, I fudged rules for it. You're at -3 to skill to anything but the most banal Electronics (etc.) rolls if you don't have the right EF.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Wow it was nice to find this forum.

We have been playing Rifts since it came out and have house ruled the system to death. Last week we quit paying it because no matter how much you modify the rules you still end up with Palladiums bad rule base. Love the system Hate the rules. (and all the cut and paste in their books)

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

The main rulebook will be a big help if you want to jump in with conversions.

 

Also, since it can take a while to fully grok the nuances of the Hero Rules never be afraid to ask the boards how to simulate something. We're really good about being helpful.

[UltraRob]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

 

Well, realistically, you just need the basic HERO 5th Edition core rulesbook and you're good to go. As anyone here will tell you, that book contains everything you really need to game using HERO. If you want to have some premade stuff to just whip out, then for RIFTS you probably want Dark Champions (for more guns and equipment rules). Beyond that it depends totally on the type of RIFTS game you prefer to play, I know some guys who play it with a major tech orientation (basically as a weird Sci-Fi setting) and they'd probably benefit from Star Hero, or The Ultimate Vehicle, but find Fantasy Hero useless. Others play it more Fantasy Style, and they'd go the other way, with The Grimoire and Fantasy Hero being of more use to them.

 

I guess if I had to pick my own books to use to run RIFTS HERO they'd be:

The Core Book

The Ultimate Martial Artist (to me, the most useful HERO product besides the Core Book)

Dark Champions

The Ultimate Vehicle

 

That's about it, but as I said, you really only need the core book.

 

And if you're using Main Man's conversion points, I'd suggest the Wilks does 8 Damage Classes, and go up from there, probably maxing out at 26 or so Damage Classes for a Boom Gun.

 

Rob

[Gonoan]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

Got the core rule book and am reading it over now. Wow do they have lots of rules. Keep them Rifts to Hero's rules coming and I'll start posting once I'm finished this book.

 

Gonoan

[Oruncrest]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

 

 

Well, If you're looking for that sort of thing...

 

Glitter Boy
Val	Char	Cost	Notes	 
50	STR	35	19-; 1.2t, 10D6  
26	BODY	30	  
1.25	Size	10	-2 KB	 
23	DEF	57	  
20	DEX	30	13-; CV: 7/6  
4	SPD	10	3, 6, 9, 12	 

Movement  
Running:	20â€/ 40â€ncm	 
Leaping:	15â€h/ 8â€v  


Cost	Powers	E/-  
28	+14†Running
5	Jet Boosters: +5†leaping, no NCM (-¼)
8	Jet Hovering: 5†Flight Only to allow the GB to hover 4†off the ground (-½)
27	0 END on STR	0  
33	Stabilization Systems: 25pts Knockback Defense; Non-persistent, -¼, Cannot use any movement powers while Stabilization Systems are active, -¼
13	Life Support Systems: LS: Self Contained, Temperature, Radiation, Pressure, Disease; IIF	
1	Nutrition Unit: LS: Diminished Eating, 1 Week	  
15	Reflective Surface: ½ Resistant Energy Damage Reduction, only vs. Lasers, -1	
75	Mega-Damage Combat 5D6 HKA, 0 END; STR Doesn’t Add	0  

RG-14 Rapid Acceleration Electromagnetic Rail Gun, AKA the ‘Boom Gun’:	  
92	The Gun: 7D6 RKA, 100 Charges, OAF, Gun will not fire unless the Stabilization System has been activated, -¼	
29	The Boom: 7½D6 Hearing Flash in a 30†Radius, 0 END; OAF, Linked to go off with ‘the Gun’ (-¾), no range	0

Sensor Systems:	  
5	Thermo-Imager: Infrared Perception	  
17	IR & UV Optics: Detect Infrared and/or Ultraviolet Perception powers at range	15-
4	Laser Targeting: +2 w/Boom Gun	  
30	Optics Protection: 30 pts Flash Defense Sight	  
30	Sound Suppression Systems: 30 pts Flash defense Hearing	  
341	Total Powers Cost	  
172	Total Characteristics Cost	  
584	Total Vehicle Cost	  

100	+Disadvantages	  
15	Distinctive Features: Glitter Boy, (Unconcealable, Noticed)	  
10	Hunted by the CS (except for Free Quebec) (mp, nci, destroy)	8-  
5	Hunted by various bandits & thugs (lp, steal)	8-  
5	Reputation: Laughs off Lasers	8-  
450        Pilot Payment
600	Total Disadvantages

 

I'll try to write up my RIFTS ->HERO conversion notes and present them later this week.

[The Main Man]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

I like the MDC Combat power you gave that Glitter Boy. Note taken.

 

Most of the rest of the write-up would have been pretty similar had I done it, except for the Strength, which if literally converted would come to about 23-25; half what you gave, which I prefer.

 

Palladium Strength is incoherent if you ask me.

 

The other day I was discussing Rifts HERO with my friends, and they are all hyped for it, but now that I think about it, I cannot decide on character costs and limits.

[AlHazred]

Re: Rifts HERO?

 

We started out at 150 points, and after several years of gaming have reached the 250-point level. Now that enough points are available, new players got to make more costly characters (a Cyberknight and a Juicer). I expect, if the campaign lasts another several years, we'll see new players coming in as Full Borgs and Young Dragons.

 

By that point, my non-magical character might actually be effective.