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DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?


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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Definitely true! For example' date=' having several of the Heroic genre books under my belt makes it easy to mix/match/tailor appropriate material without having to write it from scratch every time.[/quote'] Yeah, I can see right away several new Talents in Star Hero (Hotshot Pilot) and Fantasy Hero (Animal Friendship, Crippling Blow, Evasive, Fascination, Fearless, Follow-Through Attack, Inspire, Rapid Healing, Trackless Stride) that deserve at least consideration for inclusion in this book, and all you'd need is a good cut-and-paste. :)

 

And now that I think about it, the two new versions of Environmental Movement in TUV might work well here too. ;)

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'll second RDU Neils request and expand it to a request for a discussion of overall combat psychology to cover not only can character keep their cool in combat' date=' but also things like do they have the ability to kill other humans at close distances (the old saw from WW2 was that 10% of the soldiers were doing 90% of the killing).[/quote']

I don't mean to stifle ideas but to express my opinion on what should go into those limited pages, I don't think the book should go so deeply as you suggest into combat psychology. It's still heroic fiction - even if more realistic by virtue of the genre - and I would suggest that this has more of a place in a supplement or more specific book, that it is not so common a concern in heroic fiction. That's just my opinion.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't mean to stifle ideas but to express my opinion on what should go into those limited pages' date=' I don't think the book should go so deeply as you suggest into combat psychology. It's still heroic fiction - even if more realistic by virtue of the genre - and I would suggest that this has more of a place in a supplement or more specific book, that it is not so common a concern in heroic fiction. That's just my opinion.[/quote'] As far as going in-depth, I have to agree with this. Some discussion might be appropriate, but the depths of character psychology would be more appropriate for a separate book, or a series of DH articles.
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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see some mention of skill degredation and retraining. Some skills after periods of non-use degrade...and retraining may be required to "brush up" in that area. Other factors can affect skills causing them to degrade also, such as age, health, stress, etc.

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Action (with an exclamation point)

 

I'd like to see something like Action!, in the same sense that we think of science versus Science!

 

To elaborate: everyone seems to be focusing on the realistic elements of DC. I'd like to see a discussion of the cinematic elements, i.e. how to simulate action movies. We've seen an excellent discussion of cinematic martial arts in those genre books. Something equivalent for the gun-toting genre would be nice.

 

In my own DC campaigns, I added a Talent called "Style." It works like a very limited VPP; the characters purchase a number of Style levels, and they may expend them throughout the session to do extraordinary, cinematic things (dodge automatic gunfire, leap off buildings and catch flagpoles, etc.)

 

Do feel free to use the idea, if you like.

 

--->M@ss

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Re: Action (with an exclamation point)

 

I'd like to see something like Action!, in the same sense that we think of science versus Science!

 

To elaborate: everyone seems to be focusing on the realistic elements of DC. I'd like to see a discussion of the cinematic elements, i.e. how to simulate action movies. We've seen an excellent discussion of cinematic martial arts in those genre books. Something equivalent for the gun-toting genre would be nice.

 

In my own DC campaigns, I added a Talent called "Style." It works like a very limited VPP; the characters purchase a number of Style levels, and they may expend them throughout the session to do extraordinary, cinematic things (dodge automatic gunfire, leap off buildings and catch flagpoles, etc.)

 

Do feel free to use the idea, if you like.

 

--->M@ss

 

You know, I tried to say the same thing earlier, but you did it a lot more elegently than I ever dreamed of.

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Re: Action (with an exclamation point)

 

To elaborate: everyone seems to be focusing on the realistic elements of DC. I'd like to see a discussion of the cinematic elements, i.e. how to simulate action movies. We've seen an excellent discussion of cinematic martial arts in those genre books. Something equivalent for the gun-toting genre would be nice.

--->M@ss

 

Yeah for those of us who would not be insterested in a realistic firefight in a game, but would love to play a game in John Woo or James Bond style.

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This one's for you, Steve!

 

Steve,

 

I hope that the section on street-level superheroics is full enough in content (and not necessarily in page count) to help those of us that want to run Daredevil/Punisher/Nightwawk kind of campaigns.

 

Personally, I don't have a lot of interest in the modern action-adventure genre at this point in time (not to say that I wouldn't have at some point in the future) and if the superheroic contents of DC is going to be minimal, it will probably forestall my purchase of the book at this time.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't want (or expect) this content to dominate the book, but it would be very nice to have a comprehensive (albeit brief) coverage of that genre in the book for those of us that are interested in that area.

 

I apologize if this subject has been a) beaten to death, or B) discussed previously in the thread. I did a brief browse before posting, but did not read chapter and verse, and just wanted to get my 2 AP in. Thanks!

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Re: Action (with an exclamation point)

 

I'd like to see something like Action!, in the same sense that we think of science versus Science!

 

To elaborate: everyone seems to be focusing on the realistic elements of DC. I'd like to see a discussion of the cinematic elements, i.e. how to simulate action movies. We've seen an excellent discussion of cinematic martial arts in those genre books. Something equivalent for the gun-toting genre would be nice.

 

In my own DC campaigns, I added a Talent called "Style." It works like a very limited VPP; the characters purchase a number of Style levels, and they may expend them throughout the session to do extraordinary, cinematic things (dodge automatic gunfire, leap off buildings and catch flagpoles, etc.)

 

Do feel free to use the idea, if you like.

 

--->M@ss

 

Good point, but also make sure to keep "cinematic" and "realistic" bits clear of each other (the standard optional rules bit) nothing screws up a cinematic campaign like getting a little to much realism or to much John Woo in your Band of Brothers campaign (just watch Windtalkers for an example). However I'd also like to see some suggestions for combining them, just how would you run a campaign with a mix of over the top cinemetic characters in a mostly realistic campaign or the reverse? I think it could be interesting.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

....might as well work in fear for horror while your at it. (since I hope the Horror genre will at least get a little room in this book).

 

Since a Horror HERO revision isn't listed on DOJ's publication schedule, and since horror could conceivably fit under the umbrella of "modern day action-adventure", perhaps it would be appropriate to include some sort of expansion of the "PRE Drain +/- PRE Attack" rules to cover fear, stress, and insanity in DC. :D

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While I'm sure this could all be covered with existing rules (although, in theory, EVERYTHING can be covered with the existing rules), I'd like to see something on the "Tough Guy" effect.

 

Batman, especially 'realistic' Batman like Frank Milelr style, always gets shot with flesh wounds. He also heals faster. I'd like to see some info on this... How to both increase recovery speed (because combat is still lethal, but not permantently impairing) as well as using EGO to overcome damage. Things like that. Thanks in advance!

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Since a Horror HERO revision isn't listed on DOJ's publication schedule' date=' and since horror could conceivably fit under the umbrella of "modern day action-adventure", perhaps it would be appropriate to include some sort of expansion of the "PRE Drain +/- PRE Attack" rules to cover fear, stress, and insanity in DC. :D[/quote'] I'll agree that this kind of thing should be at least touched on here, but I'm still hoping Horror Hero shows up as the 2006 "Summer Blockbuster." ;)

 

And BTW, if you check here you'll find that Horror Hero, along with Cyber Hero and Western Hero, is indeed on DOJ's "to-do" list. :D

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

As noted in the Guns thread

 

I'd like to see rules for indirect fire and observation.

An option to go back to the old DI shotgun version, and the modifiers for it.

 

rules for blowthrough on barriers and targets would be good.

 

Non-lethal weapons.

 

Modern versions of archaic weapons. Crossbows today are pretty nasty, there are more kinds of bows than probably ever before, and expandable batons are pretty useful, and could be scaled up, imo.

 

the stuff on criminology, etc in An Eye for an Eye and Dark champions is very good.

 

with the discussion of different genres, discussing the implications for the Law.

 

If a significant percentage of the population can shoot energy blasts from their eyes, etc, will the laws for Civilian carry of firearms be more liberal?

 

In such a world, I think someone would Rapidly start selling things like Shaped Charge shotgun slugs, which imo SHOULD do more than a normal slug...

 

just some quick thoughts.

 

 

 

To begin with, take a look at Dark Champions, Eye for an Eye, Danger International and Here there be Tigers, then make none of the good stuff gets left out.

 

While vehicles are covered in TUV I would suggest a little time be spent on them anyway since they can be such a large part of genre. Handling special features (armor, oil slicks etc), car chases, legal issues, driving while under the influence of truth serum etc. Not so much how to make them but considerations of their use.

 

While lists of guns are always nice lets not forget the old standby melee weapons, stun guns, switch blades, brass knuckles, nail studded baseball bats etc. I'd like to see a nice selection of these included. Seems like an area that gets left out of many modern games.

 

I hope a little time will be given to gritty post apocalypse like Mad Max, Twilight 2000 or the comic Scout. Its a large genre and while Star HERO covered some already I think more can be said, leave the wild futuristic stuff (Gamma World, The Matrix) to StarHERO and the crumbling vestages of civilaization to DC.

 

I also hope that more time will be spent on the military angle, previous versions were definately focused on law enforcement and spy stuff, a chapter on running military campaigns would be great, in particular ranks and awards, types of units, types of missions and how to run them. Preferably this will get a subgenre book of its own but I'd like to see at least enough to get campaigns started until such a book exists.

 

I'm sure I will think of more but its a start. Can't wait to see it, I know it will be great, the originals were and so far all the new ones are better.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One possibility that I don't think anyone's mentioned just yet, is material on Hong Kong-style gun opera campaigns. Just the fact that the "We're Gonna Need Guns" thread exists should make it clear that guns will be a big part of the DC, so why not include some suggestions on playing a Feng Shui-esque campaign?

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One possibility that I don't think anyone's mentioned just yet' date=' is material on Hong Kong-style gun opera campaigns. Just the fact that the "We're Gonna Need Guns" thread exists should make it clear that guns will be a big part of the DC, so why not include some suggestions on playing a Feng Shui-esque campaign?[/quote']

Some - if not all that's going to appear in a genre book (Steve any comment?) - of this is in Ninja HERO.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In the GM's section, I'd like to read advice on how to integrate vigilantes (Batman, Punisher) plausibly into society. Do they need to cultivate contacts on the police force? If so, how should they go about this? (Batman Year One had a great example of the early relationship between Wayne and Gordon) What role does the media play in bringing attention to the vigilantes' exploits?

 

Also, and this is very IMPORTANT, how does a GM instill in players limits to their characters' behavior. Punisher runs around killing bad guys by the score, but he doesn't blow away just anybody who annoys him. Once the players realize they have the fire power to kill anyone they meet, what's to stop them from turning into full-on baddies and taking out the entire police-force Terminator-style? This was the same problem that bedeviled early D&D editions. Extreme violence mixed with a lack of social control leads to a party of sociopaths. You really should say something about how to keep players balanced between social acceptability and outright evil.

 

In this regard: Either ditch Harbinger of Justice or tone him down to where he can serve as an appropriate example of a "realistic" character for a crimefighting/Danger International type of setting.

 

JG

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What is with peoples hatred of the Harbinger of Justice?

 

I've never seen the write-up, I've just read peoples complaints about him on the message boards. And after reading the complaints, I can't see what the big deal is.

 

He's just a bad-ass NPC. A character for the players to fear and not get in his way.

I don't see how having one character write-up, that'll take up 2 pages (at most) of book space, needs this kind of constant harping and complaining. Get over it, people.

 

If you don't want to use him, fine. He doesn't in any way stifle your ability to run a DC genre game. One character write up (unless it's the only example write that's going to be in the book) isn't going to destroy people's ability to play in-genre. Anyways, some of us would like to see what a Cosmically Powerful Punisher looks like.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing that has little to do with Steve's job, but maybe you could pass it along... (if it's not too late):

 

I'd appreciate a cover which did not feature a costumed vigilante as the primary character focus. Sure, but Harbinger or someone on the cover, but put a spy, or a dirty cop, or a soldier, or someone else in the most prominent position.

 

This would help emphasise to the general public that Dark Champions is about more than costumed vigilantes.

 

Just a thought.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

WOrks for me.

 

One thing that has little to do with Steve's job, but maybe you could pass it along... (if it's not too late):

 

I'd appreciate a cover which did not feature a costumed vigilante as the primary character focus. Sure, but Harbinger or someone on the cover, but put a spy, or a dirty cop, or a soldier, or someone else in the most prominent position.

 

This would help emphasise to the general public that Dark Champions is about more than costumed vigilantes.

 

Just a thought.

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What is with peoples hatred of the Harbinger of Justice?

 

I've never seen the write-up, I've just read peoples complaints about him on the message boards. And after reading the complaints, I can't see what the big deal is.

 

He's just a bad-ass NPC. A character for the players to fear and not get in his way.

I don't see how having one character write-up, that'll take up 2 pages (at most) of book space, needs this kind of constant harping and complaining. Get over it, people.

 

If you don't want to use him, fine. He doesn't in any way stifle your ability to run a DC genre game. One character write up (unless it's the only example write that's going to be in the book) isn't going to destroy people's ability to play in-genre. Anyways, some of us would like to see what a Cosmically Powerful Punisher looks like.

 

It's more like what Citizen Keen said. I don't HATE HoJ (well, not as much as some people I've played with) but you gotta admit, someone with a 40 DEX initiative and a teleporter system for his arsenal is not someone who fits in with the more realistic genre, even as depicted in the other Dark Champions sourcebooks.

 

That said, I'd still like to see what he looks like in 5th Edition...

 

JG

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I agree that having a gun pointed at you is a scary thing. I suggest you think hard though as to what is the cause behind the fear. I think that you might want to take a look at the person wielding the gun.

 

a. Does person look like someone who is used to being in the situation and is willing to use the gun? Dirty Harry.

 

b. Is the person scared, but has gathered enough gumption to pull the trigger? Beaten wife who finally has gathered the resolve to take care of her problem.

 

c. Is the person scared, but really hasn't gathered the gumption to pull the trigger?

 

Personally, I would be more scared of a and b. c is the person that you could probably talk your way out if you notice certain signs that the person reallly will not pull the trigger.

 

No, I don't think the gun should have a PRE stat. People using guns kill people not the guns themselves. Most people, I believe, just seeing a gun on the table would not be scared of the gun.

 

 

 

I'd like to see guns get a PRE stat. Dirty Harry pointing a .44Mag in someones face and saying "Do you feel lucky punk?" is a great example of PRE based intimidation attack.
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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

reminds me of Deadpool.

 

which came first? Deadpool or HoJ?

 

It's more like what Citizen Keen said. I don't HATE HoJ (well' date=' not as much as some people I've played with) but you gotta admit, someone with a 40 DEX initiative and a teleporter system for his arsenal is not someone who fits in with the more realistic genre, even as depicted in the other [i']Dark Champions[/i] sourcebooks.

 

That said, I'd still like to see what he looks like in 5th Edition...

 

JG

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Re: DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Mosst people in reality will barely be ABLE to see past the gun. Funny, a 38 looks about 3/4 inch, and 12 gauge looks like you could walk into it. :shock:

 

I agree that having a gun pointed at you is a scary thing. I suggest you think hard though as to what is the cause behind the fear. I think that you might want to take a look at the person wielding the gun.

 

a. Does person look like someone who is used to being in the situation and is willing to use the gun? Dirty Harry.

 

b. Is the person scared, but has gathered enough gumption to pull the trigger? Beaten wife who finally has gathered the resolve to take care of her problem.

 

c. Is the person scared, but really hasn't gathered the gumption to pull the trigger?

 

Personally, I would be more scared of a and b. c is the person that you could probably talk your way out if you notice certain signs that the person reallly will not pull the trigger.

 

No, I don't think the gun should have a PRE stat. People using guns kill people not the guns themselves. Most people, I believe, just seeing a gun on the table would not be scared of the gun.

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