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Dark Champions in Champs Universe?


FenrisUlf

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

"Convergence of mystic forces" is the nice convenient excuse.

No' date=' that's a cop out. That's a non explanation.[/quote']It doesn't have to be a non-explanation. Rather than a convergence or a balance, what if it's a null-zone of mystic forces? In a world like the Hero Universe, where the waxing and waning of magic allows for or prevents the existence of superpowers, what would the result be of an utterly magic-dead zone?

 

It would probably prevent overt magic but not affect "normal" superpowers, at least in a normal Champions game. But you could easily say that such a zone suppresses existing superpowers too.

 

If you go that route, and Hudson City is in such a zone, you now have an explanation. Villains with superpowers stay away because it wrecks their powers. Heroes with superpowers go elsewhere because they have to oppose the supervillains that have gone elsewhere. Villainous types without superpowers will probably choose to congregate there, because it lets them avoid superheroes. And heroic types without superpowers will congregate there because someone has to fight the rampant crime all the excess "normal" criminals bring.

 

And the power level of any such supers as do stay in the area would be greatly reduced (i.e., "street-level" supers).

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

I enjoy dark champions as much as the next guy but the power differences really do not work with Hudson City being part of the champions universe. There is no reason a crime hunter like Nighthawk would have come to Millennium City when there was such a crime-ridden sewer as Hudson City just begging for help. The same goes for Shogushen and Nightwind. It seems just easier to consider Hudson City to be part of Earth-D rather than part of Earth-C.

Actually ... there are some great reasons for that :) Taking a page from the Batsquad comics, the reason why there aren't any flashy beings in Hudson City is, if there were, there'd be flashier villains. Now the heroes of HC are already having problems ... bringing in heavy hitters like Ogre would unbalance their city ... so they want metas, and anyone who plays in their world, out ... they can handle their own problems ;)

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

As I alluded to earlier' date=' the Batman stories are a bad example as they have one of the most powerful men in the world living within the city limits, yet very little meta-crime.[/quote']

 

I realy don't think Sentnel (the former original Green Lantern) truly lives in Gothen City anymore. Which reminds me, where is JSA headquarters located at in the DC Universe?

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

I realy don't think Sentnel (the former original Green Lantern) truly lives in Gothen City anymore. Which reminds me' date=' where is JSA headquarters located at in the DC Universe?[/quote']

 

It's in New York if I'm not mistaken. I always thought Sentinel, who is once again Green Lantern, lived there now.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

Forgive me if some of these points have been mentioned, but I'm putting them down as I think of 'em.

 

It's been my belief that Hudson City is not worth the trouble of the "big guns" of the hero and villain world. What you have is a city whose entire infrastructure is riddled with crime at the baser levels. In other words, for a hero to go in and clean things up he'd have to fight police corruption, vigilantes, ruthless "street level" criminals and low-level metas, MUCH more than any one person could handle. Even a team would have to devote significant time and resources to ferreting out all the little dons and crimelords and "super-street-villains". While they're doing this you just know some "big name" villain(s) is going to take advantage of their distraction.

 

Villains, by the same token, aren't going to be interested in Hudson City for the same reason queen ants and queen bees don't just waltz in and take over another hive. Even the lowliest of the street scum is going to fight for what's his, and the villains are likely going to want to just find someplace else that's less work to get established. A major villain who goes into Hudson City will always have to watch his back, which kinda detracts from that whole "master villain/master plan" thing.

 

The rules are different in Hudson City, you see. Killing an opponent isn't as far-fetched as it is in the more glamorous and public cities. You don't follow rules; you play to win. Both heroes and villains are wary of risking that level of commitment for what might not be that much of a gain to begin with.

 

You get down to the street level criminals, the (relatively) low-powered metas and gangs each battling for control. Fine, let 'em battle it out. The political/governmental infrastructure is so riddled with holes and moles and corruption that it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

 

Lastly, with all this "low level" street crime going on, a few anti-hero vigilantes are doing what they can to keep a lid on the worst of it. Well, the flashy heroes say "Let 'em. As long as it doesn't spill over into MY city I'm willing to let them handle it."

 

None of this is implausible or unrealistic. It fits the genre, it fits what I have in mind for a Dark Champions setting, and it explains why the Champions won't set foot in Hudson City, but a cameo by Nightduck wouldn't be inappropriate on occasion.

 

I haven't played in a Dark Champions game in a while, but that's my take on how Hudson City fits into the Champions Universe.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

It doesn't have to be a non-explanation. Rather than a convergence or a balance, what if it's a null-zone of mystic forces? In a world like the Hero Universe, where the waxing and waning of magic allows for or prevents the existence of superpowers, what would the result be of an utterly magic-dead zone?

 

It would probably prevent overt magic but not affect "normal" superpowers, at least in a normal Champions game. But you could easily say that such a zone suppresses existing superpowers too.

 

Say the ambient magic in Hudson City is much lower than normal. Sapphire gets a major contract to perform at whatever the HC arena is named. Even though her powers aren't magical, they exist because magic does; so whenever the pyrotechnics plan calls for her to fire something minor but flashy she probably feels a bit odd. Defender's armor works because magic let him "jump the gun" on powersuit development, so if he visits HC for some reason he may feel like he has to do more work on maintenance than normal -- even if the suit is running just fine, subconsciously he's picking up the "this shouldn't work" vibes.

 

About the only supers who _could_ work effectively in HC would be those such as Nighthawk, who didn't need a "get out of reality free" card from magic for their training to be effective. (And he's not mentioned in the historical bits at the beginning of Galactic Champions, so maybe he did move to HC to play "who's got a bigger pair" with Harbinger.) Everyone else, both hero and villain, will be getting subconscious pressure every single time they use "impossible" powers or tech. If the magic level is just really low, then minor superpowers would work without that pressure, but anyone manifesting something big will probably be pushed into moving out of town without realizing why.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

Maybe Hudson city is not glamorous enough form most four-color types. The place is just too dark. In Hudson, when someone threatens to blow the city, it is considered by city council as urban renewal. What superhero wants to spend their time arresting 0 Pt. street-level pushers when that wimp "Shirtless Bob" is getting the headlines in L.A. for Battling Dr. Destroyer. Even King Kong had the taste to rampage through New York and headed straight for the Empire State Building for his big death scene. The reason why there are no superheros in Hudson city is because there are no "real" supervillains. If Dr. Destroyer is planning to blowup a city to demonstrate the power of his death-ray satellite, he is going to pick a target that someone might notice gone.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

Maybe Hudson city is not glamorous enough form most four-color types. The place is just too dark. In Hudson' date=' when someone threatens to blow the city, it is considered by city council as urban renewal. What superhero wants to spend their time arresting 0 Pt. street-level pushers when that wimp "Shirtless Bob" is getting the headlines in L.A. for Battling Dr. Destroyer. Even King Kong had the taste to rampage through New York and headed straight for the Empire State Building for his big death scene. The reason why there are no superheros in Hudson city is because there are no "real" supervillains. If Dr. Destroyer is planning to blowup a city to demonstrate the power of his death-ray satellite, he is going to pick a target that someone might notice gone.[/quote']

 

They would notice it was gone, they would give Dr D a metal for doing it, but they would notice it was gone.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

Okay' date=' any ideas on just how one could use Dark Champions in the Champions Universe 'present day' (i.e., when all the metahumans are running around), aside from the whole masked vigilante sub-genre?[/quote']It looks like there have been some great, positive ideas here. Some things I would add are these. In a broad, general, blanket statement, I would say that the Four Color usually happens in the daytime and Dark Champions tends to happen at night. Also, 4C tends to deal with the fantastic (world domination starting in the city, flying apes, city quarantined by a force field, a small building ripped from its foundations used as a hostage/bartering tool, etc.) while DC tends to deal with closer to real life crimes, with either a minor super twist, or highly specialized criminals.

 

As for the looks and powers of the individuals, 4C is almost always flashy and practically a distinctive feature in itself, while DC characters wear dark, subdued colors (if they wear a "costume"). Many 4C have lots of fliers or superleapers (or some other type of self-propulsion), with DC usually having vehicles for transportation. You can have pretty much any power in 4C, while DC is more limited, though compensated with "gadgets!" In addition, DC characters tend to have either lower points in powers or less powers, and a lot more in skills. Also, for magic, in 4C, it is almost always flashy and instant, while DC requires extra time, incantations, gestures, and sometimes several people to perform.

 

For plots, you can think of the 4C as the state, country or world-wide scale, with DC as (nearly) always the local city. When Dr. Destroyer threatens to destroy a city within 24 hours if his demands aren't met, the 4C heroes go after him while the DC make sure chaos and mayhem doesn't happen. I like your comment about the DC characters picking up the pieces (but don't use that for every plot device!). In addition, 4C usually has solo villains or groups/teams, while DC has "gangs" and "criminal organizations."

 

If someone complains or if you're worried about how come a DC themed character is in Millennium City instead of your city, remind them that that person can only be in one city at a time. After all, Batman is just in Gotham. You don't see him flying to LA on weekends to clean up there as well.

 

In the DC game we played, we had at one time 7 players & 9 characters; only three had flight and only one had more than 15" combat and more than 2x ncm; the rest used motorcylces (that vigilante van never made it). The two bricks had 40 STR & 30 STR (w/growth & D.I. up to 90, scaled back to 60 after a horrible crushing blow), only one person had N-ray vision and two had regeneration, but no more than 2 points worth. The villains with super powers usually had just one major one, most energy blasters didn't have flight, most bricks didn't have extra superleap or hardened defenses. The two mentalists had low psychic powers except for their specialty.

 

For player characters, if you generally keep the DC ones to gadgeteers, martial artists, and weapons specialists, you'll have your game going smoothly. One "super" probably won't ruin it if the character doesn't choose a flashy costume. In the last DC game I was in, my PC was actually built with the 4C concept in mind. He had flight, N-Ray vision, 40 STR, regeneration, 25% damage reduction resistant, and 15 PD/ED with 10/10 damage resistance (hardened). When I was told that this was for a DC game and told the basics of it, I said my guy's "vigilante" clothing consisted of cowboy boots, jeans, dark collarless shirt, leather jacket, gloves and a Booster Gold style mask w/goggles.

 

I hope this helps.

 

PS: Good "crossovers" -other than the city+ scale mentioned above- include VIPER, ninjas, alien invasions, and lower powered villains.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

We had a superhero team called the Crusaders based in Denver, CO. The PCs were very high powered characters meant to take on EuroStar or other very high powered global threats. Where, the PCs decided that "their town" was going to be clean of crime. They held a news conference to announce that "All criminals are hereby put on notice that they are to leave Denver, and the surrounding areas immediately. Any criminals that decide to stay would be brought to justice by the Crusaders", or something to that effect (basically, leave or go to jail...). Well, some criminals stayed, and were promptly dealt with by the Crusaders. The team spent a couple of weeks going through and rooting out criminals, doing intensive patrols of the city, etc. Things were getting cleaned up, and everything seemed to going well....

 

This was put on the 'back burner' for a short time, as the PCs turned their attention to bigger global and national issues. A short time later, the citizens of Denver decided that they did not really need to properly finance their police department (crime was not a major concern to them, seeing as that bona fide superheroes were protecting their city). The police department became more and more of a hollow force.

 

Then... the Crusaders were needed elsewhere for an extended period of time (long story, but they were sent to Khazakstan). Now, the city of Denver was a prime relocation city for the worse of the criminal element.

 

If my group plays DC, I plan on having them be in a city that some "good meaning" superheroes once decided to clean up... a city that, therefore, did not think it had much need for police protection.

 

Polaris

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

That sounds like the French and the Maginot Line, Polaris.

 

And as an idea, how about borrowing a page from White Wolf and having two sets of characters for your PC heroes? One being the superheroes, off saving the world and fighting Doctor Tyranno's dinosaur-men; and the other being local cops, be they beat cops or the MARS squad, dealing with the clean-up? Millennium City has a special 'superhuman crimes' squad, after all. It might be good to see the same problem from two angles like that, and to show how non-superpowered police deal with superpowered vigilantes and criminals.

 

PS -- Anyone running detective characters might want to check out the new book _The Forensics of Batman_. Basically a guide to modern forensic science through the eyes of ol' Batso. It seems very informative and entertaining to me. And I feel it'd fit in perfectly with a DC campaign. 'Forensics for Dummies' is another good work.

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

agreed, but then in the real world UNTIL would not be allowed to operate within the United States no matter how corrupt PRIMUS might have been or will be.

 

Um...in the real world, UNTIL agents will do just that (asuming VIPER and UNTIL exist in our world, and thay do not, so my point is moot). And asasinating 'evil dictators', killing drug dealers and stealing there stuff, ect...

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Re: Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

 

agreed' date=' but then in the real world UNTIL would not be allowed to operate within the United States no matter how corrupt PRIMUS might have been or will be.[/quote']

Yeah, not to mention that an UNTIL force probably wouldn't be armed, and if they were, they'd probably request and suggest that villains or criminal organizations behave nicely. Like the UN, I'd think a real-world UNTIL would have no legal authority.

 

Just look at the wording of this document

http://ods-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N04/444/58/PDF/N0444458.pdf?OpenElement

or any other on the UN website (http://www.un.org)

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