Hyper-Man Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Okay' date=' I can do that. But the limited tourney shouldn't be called "combat wombat". I hear wombat and I think something Gary would make, not a balanced character (no offense Gary).[/quote'] LOL , I tried to choose a name that would grab people's attention. I didn't mean to give a negative connotation to the discussion. Also, using the word tournament would be a little misleading since I personally don't plan to or expect anyone else to actually run the combats. It's meant as more of an intellectual excersise to unite all the good minds of this board together in the pursuit of usefull information. Hopefully, If this actually gets off the ground, everyone who submits characters will not take the voting results personally if one of their entries does not get many votes. I believe that most experienced gamers on this board can analyze characters fairly without actually having to sit down and roll the dice. BTW, I plan to make the POLL a public one too just to help make sure that voters post a reason for the way they vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Okay, cool. I think I have a guy who might quallify (he should, he's written within my own campaign guidelines). Just to make sure I got it down, what this is, is a sort of contest, performed abstractly by the contestants and judges (voters), wherein characters balanced for playability are put against each other in various degrees of opposition. What you are looking for is a set of character building guidelines that will keep out the munchkinized, overbalanced entries, but still allow for some creative license in character creation. Have I got it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Okay, cool. I think I have a guy who might quallify (he should, he's written within my own campaign guidelines). Just to make sure I got it down, what this is, is a sort of contest, performed abstractly by the contestants and judges (voters), wherein characters balanced for playability are put against each other in various degrees of opposition. What you are looking for is a set of character building guidelines that will keep out the munchkinized, overbalanced entries, but still allow for some creative license in character creation. Have I got it? Wow, yes you have! I thought that others would veiw this as a worthwhile exercise to see if a particular character type actually has a measurable advantage over other types using a small range of common situations as a measuring stick above and beyond the X vs. Y scenario. Accepting the validity of this type of experiment requires the use of 'playable' characters if we really want to see game relevant results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Very true. I'll take a slightly different approach to it. I'll look at as a way to discover is anything in the system actually is inherently unbalancing (such as STR), and if so, what measures can be taken to balance things. Personally, I think everything balances out so long as there's a GM there to guide the process. A GM will need to be here to monitor character creation for the same reasons though. P.S.: Anyone besides Hyper-man and I who want in on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! I'll be willing to use a slightly modified version of Lariat. How slightly modified depends on the ground rules of the contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Anyone still interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Well, you can count me in; I've just been waiting for the official announcement of the actual ground rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! My appologies everyone. I didn't feel like I was doing a good job of gathering a good consensus on this so far so I had been ignoring it. I will go over everyone's posts to this thread in the next couple of days and will post my rules for both character creation and tournament judging soon after. At that point, everyone can begin submitting chacters here. Once we have enough variety and hopefully at least 10 submissions I will start another thread with a poll so everyone can judge which character is the real Wombat of the bunch for themselves. IMO, multiple submissions from one person (of different archtypes) are ok but remember we can only vote on a maximum of 10 different submissions so I think we might end up having each participant pick 1 of their submissions to this thread to then be included in the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Ok everyone, Here are the Welterweight Wombat character creation rules: Someone else can define the Heavyweight(unlimited) ones. Characters to built on 350 points maximum. Characters must have minimum of 50 points in disadvantages from the following categories:physical limitations susceptibility vulnerability [*]Maximum Combat Value of 20 (OCV or DCV) with levels and manuevers. [*]Maximum Damage Class of 20 for attacks with levels and manuevers(except Haymaker, Move By, and *Move Through). [*]Maximum of 8 speeds [*]Maximum of 90 active points in any one power or characteristic. Banned Powers Duplication END Reserve Extra Dimensional movement Find Weakness Luck Multiform Summon All characters with Desolidification are considered non-desolidified vs. other characters with Desolidification. No skills as powers. No Penalty skill levels (only combat levels can be used with Move Through and the maximum OCV for a 6" Move Through must be less than 21). No more than +2 worth of advantages or limitations allowed per power. Banned Advantages: Burnout Charges Delayed effect Megascale Transdimensional Usable on others as attack *NNDs and AVLD must have a FREd or 5th edition Champions suppliment example of the attack type. Allowed Limitations: Activation roll Concentration Extra time Gestures Incantations Increased endurance Range limitations Frameworks: Multipowers and EM's must have tight themes (FREd or 5th edition Champions suppliment example). No variable power pools Banned Maneuvers: Rapid fire All Wombats will be judged in a Poll voted on by our judges based on how the Wombat would do against the majority of all the other Wombats in the following scenarios. Combat Scenerios (5 points total): Oversized Football/Soccer Field (100"x50") Scenarios, 2 minute time limit for each, draws are worth half a point (3 possible points):Capture the Flag: The Wombats start at 1 hex size gates at opposite goal lines, put a golf-flagstick in middle of field. The goal is to get the Flag and then take it back through your starting gate. Half court or Offense/Defense version: One Wombat starts with flagstick in middle of field with goal of getting past the other Wombat who is defending a 1 hex gate on goal line. (This scenario is played twice). [*]Knockout the Wombat scenarios, No time-limit, NO draws (2 possible points): Knockout the other Wombat on a featureless 100"x50" field. Knockout the other Wombat on 100"x50" junkyard field (objects of various sizes available to throw and hide behind). Once we have enough Wombat entries I will start a poll that everyone can vote on. May the best Combat Wombat win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Oh dear...It looks like the Bricks will win. Or maybe not... A question though... For what reason have you allowed the use of OIHID and disallowed UAA? up to 20 damage class attacks and 20 CV but only up to +2 in Advantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Oh dear...It looks like the Bricks will win. Or maybe not... A question though... For what reason have you allowed the use of OIHID and disallowed UAA? up to 20 damage class attacks and 20 CV but only up to +2 in Advantages? Good point - OIHID should never be used in a tournament setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Good point - OIHID should never be used in a tournament setting. I did not allow any Focus or OIHID, Instead of Banned limitatons I gave a list of Allowed ones instead. It seemed easier that way since there were fewer that seemed applicable to this format. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Sorry, that one should have been added as well. I knew I would miss something! I will edit the original post. Oversights are simple. Catching them and exposing YOU is the fun part! Just kidding around, seriously, it's easy to miss simple stuff, and nobody else brought it up before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Oversights are simple. Catching them and exposing YOU is the fun part! Just kidding around, seriously, it's easy to miss simple stuff, and nobody else brought it up before. actually I had it right the first time, you guys made the mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanthis Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Can we use vehicles or followers? Do the maximums to AP on powers/stats apply as caps in game, or just during creation? In other words, can Transfers or Aid/Succor increase powers above those caps? And I assume the 90 point cap on stats means 90 STR and 45 CON, not 100 STR and 55 CON, right? -Zanthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! actually I had it right the first time' date=' you guys made the mistake! [/quote'] Well you must not of explained it clearly enough then. sorry, I must be in mean joke mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Can we use vehicles or followers? Do the maximums to AP on powers/stats apply as caps in game, or just during creation? In other words, can Transfers or Aid/Succor increase powers above those caps? And I assume the 90 point cap on stats means 90 STR and 45 CON, not 100 STR and 55 CON, right? -Zanthis vehicles and followers are not going to be allowed for the same reasons that focus and duplication aren't either (too easy to abuse). 90 point cap on points spent so 100 STR, 55 CON, 40 DEX etc... reduced END on STR or any other naked advantages would count towards the point cap however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanthis Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! What about 100 STR + 18d6 HA? Total of 38d6 damage? Just curious actually, I won't need to do that to be abusive. -Zanthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! What about 100 STR + 18d6 HA? Total of 38d6 damage? Just curious actually, I won't need to do that to be abusive. -Zanthis that would not be allowed since it exceeds the stated Damage Class limit of 20 DC's. Maximum Damage Class of 20 for attacks with levels and manuevers(except Haymaker, Move By, and *Move Through). Actually, this should have instead read: Maximum Damage Class of 20 for attacks with manuevers except for Haymaker and *Movethrough. A Move By with max STR 100 and LEAP 108" would be 31DC with 20OCV, but if using flight or running instead it maxes at 19-20DC like everything else. I am tempted to allow the 30DC since a martial throw would pulverize the character but for the time being combined damage from a Move By has a max of 20 DC. *refers to max OCV 20 enforcement on a 6" Move Through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanthis Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! That'll teach me. Totally missed that line. Plus, never had to play in a DC limited environment, so not used to looking for it . -Zanthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! Well let's start the cheese flowing Mr. Velveeta Player: Intrope Val Char Cost 5 STR -5 5 DEX -15 5 CON -10 5 BODY -10 5 INT -5 5 EGO -10 5 PRE -5 5 COM -2 1 PD 0 1 ED 0 5 SPD 35 2 REC 0 95 END 43 11 STUN 0 1" RUN-100" SWIM-20" LEAP-1Characteristics Cost: 2 Cost Power END 90 Pseudo-Cheesification Beam: Major Transform 2d6 (Anything into Processed Cheese Food (note: contains no cheese), being dipped into French wine), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Uncontrolled (stopped by application of French wine) (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (90 Active Points) 9 60 Cheesy Invisibility Power: Invisibility to Sight, Hearing, Mental, Smell/Taste, Touch and Radio Groups and Spatial Awareness , No Fringe 6 90 Teleportation 15", Trigger (Whenever I fire my Cheesification Beam; +1/4), Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (90 Active Points) 0 Powers Cost: 240 Cost Skill 18 +18 with Pseudo-Cheesification Beam Skills Cost: 18 Cost Talent 90 Lightning Reflexes: +90 DEX to act first with Pseudo-Cheesification Beam Talents Cost: 90 Total Character Cost: 350 Val Disadvantages 10 Bad Legs: (Frequently, Slightly Impairing) 30 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Physical Killing Attacks (Very Common) 30 Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Physical Killing Attacks (Very Common) Disadvantage Points: 70 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 80 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0 I noted when working on this that FREd limits sell-back of Primary Chars to 5 'unless GM permits' so I stopped at 5. And of course Figureds are limited to 1 sell-off. Any comments? did I break one of Hyper-Man's rules without realizing it? BTW, do we want to post the characters here or in another thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! I can't believe you spent 43 points on END. Why not keep your 10 END and buy a 200 point END battery with 8 REC for 28 points, and spend the remaining 15 pushing your Speed up to 11? And you call yourself cheesy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! I noted when working on this that FREd limits sell-back of Primary Chars to 5 'unless GM permits' so I stopped at 5. And of course Figureds are limited to 1 sell-off. Any comments? did I break one of Hyper-Man's rules without realizing it? BTW, do we want to post the characters here or in another thread? I will go over it in detail later tonight but it looks to be within the stated rules! now we just need dorito man and mss picante! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! I can't believe you spent 43 points on END. Why not keep your 10 END and buy a 200 point END battery with 8 REC for 28 points, and spend the remaining 15 pushing your Speed up to 11? And you call yourself cheesy FYI: End Reserves are banned and 8 SPD is max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Re: accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match! I will go over it in detail later tonight but it looks to be within the stated rules! now we just need dorito man and mss picante! LOL! Actually, I realized that I'd made two errors: I had no disadvantages, and I had a disadvatage on my speed that's not on the allowed list. That's fixed now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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