Mind Control - "Shoot yourself?"

[Rerednaw]

Assuming this would even be allowed, what level of control would this be?

 

I'd think at least +30 for violently opposed. But wouldn't suicide level orders require even an even stronger degree of control?

 

I'd even hesitate to quantify it at all.

 

Opinions?

 

Cheers.

[DrSavant]

Shoot

 

Actually there are some things to consider;

# 1- Does the target have an attack which would KILL them?

This seems an assumption on your part. An armored NPC with an NND (defense is armor) would obey.

# 2- Personal immunity to ones own attack . Again obedience is assured.

# 3- "This won't hurt abit". Having to fire a 6d6 EB into yourself

when you have 20 ED doesn't sound suicidal.

#4- In the RARE case that the order would be suicidal I would

have to ask; What kind of PC hero would give such an order?

MURDEROUS maybe??

Personally as a GM I would have to rule that such a command AUTOMATICALLY fails (it would make things too easy and grossly unfair if it didn't)

[Zaratustra]

Also, don't forget most Hero System attacks can be scaled down. He could hit himself with a 1/2d6 EB and still fulfill your request.

 

But reaching EGO +30 requires around 40 points of effect. That's around 12d6 for a 50% chance of effecting it, more than enough points to purchase a 4d6 RKA or a 4d6 Major Transform into a rubber duck or a dozen equally deadly or more powers.

[Lord Liaden]

I would consider ordering a character to use an attack on himself that he knows will hurt him to require at least a +30 level of effect, unless the character is masochistic. To order a character to use an attack which he knows has a chance of killing him would be de facto against a universal "Psychological Limitation" (instinct for self-preservation), so I would require another +10 on the role, unless the character is already suicidal.

[EvilGM]

Re: Mind Control - "Shoot yourself?"

 

Originally posted by Rerednaw

Assuming this would even be allowed, what level of control would this be?

 

I'd think at least +30 for violently opposed. But wouldn't suicide level orders require even an even stronger degree of control?

 

 

Yeah, but we're all assuming that the "shoot yourself" command will automatically make the person kill himself. Since there's no location in the command, the person could end up shooting himself in the foot. Yes, it is semantics, but perfectly valid point, IMHO.

[TheEmerged]

There's also a game mechanic that sort of allows for something like this already: the bonus or penalty for wording. "Shoot Yourself" should get *at least* a -5 penalty for being poorly worded.

 

On the other hand, "Agh! You've got a spider on your right temple -- shoot it!" should probably get a +5 bonus. A Mind Controlling PC in a previous campaign did this to Bulldozer with "squash it!", with interesting results

 

BTW, since it's somewhat on topic: consider allowing bonuses to Mind Control if the victim is being subjected to a Mental Illusion of sufficient strength as well (or is being hit with it as a multiple-power attack).

[Mavnn]

Personally, I think a sufficient roll should allow you to give commands like "Commit suicide here and now." After all, to carry off a command like that you need:

 

a) a huge effect roll (I might even GM rule it as EGO +40);

the target to fail their break out roll;

c) any opposing mentalists to not help the target break out in time (with sufficiently powerful aid).

 

Depending on how tough the target is, commiting suicide might also take a while, allowing a few more break out rolls and opportunities for others to help out or incapacitate him.

 

Acheiving all this will generally involve spending an awful lot of points on Mind Control, and even then a creative victim might find a way to take you with him (I commit suicide by NCM Move-throughing Mind Man!).

 

Had I spent the same number of points on a huge RKA (and the GM allowed it), nobody would be claiming my target shouldn't die when I shoot him in the head. And it's much less likely to get twisted by a clever target into something detrimental to me - unless he has missile reflection, of course...

 

Also, purely aside from the game mechanics/cost effectiveness argument there is also the genre argument. Almost all backgrounds that involve mental powers have villians forcing weak willed opponents to kill themselves.

 

Michael