Mal-2 Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Our group is working on a Warhammer 40k based Hero game. We've been working on a package for Imperial Space Marines, and have come across a few things we're not sure how to represent in Hero terms. One of those is the following ability: Phase 12 - Sus-an Membrane. This flat, circular organ is implanted over the top of the exposed brain. It then grows into the brain tissue until completely merged. The organ is ineffective without subsequent chemical therapy and training. However, a properly tutored Marine may then enter into a state of suspended animation. This may be a conscious action, or may happen automatically in the event of extreme physical trauma. In this condition a Marine may survive for many years, even if bearing otherwise fatal injuries. Only appropriate chemical therapy and auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state - a Marine cannot revive himself. The longest known period of de-animation followed by successful re-animation is 567 years in the case of brother Silas Err of the Dark Angels (d. 321 M.27). We took a stab at it, which I'll post tonight, when I get home. How would you build this ability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Full Life Support linked to Feign Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Suspended-animation effects have been discussed a few times here on the boards, and we've had some input from Steve Long on rules issues. The most popular approach is probably Suppress vs. BODY. By game definition if a character is brought to a negative BODY equal to his starting total he's dead; but by the description of Suppress, once a Suppress is shut off the ability immediately returns to normal. Hence it works really well for putting a character in "stasis." So, I would build this as Suppress BODY large enough to get to minus the starting total, Invisible Power Effects (unless there are ways to detect if the Marine is in this state as opposed to dead), 0 END Persistent (so it will continue indefinitely after the Marine is unconscious), Trigger (extreme physical trauma). There are probably some issues involving your Marine's SFX that I haven't thought of yet. I'm sure someone will be along with alternate methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Full Life Support linked to Feign Death Hmm... I see where you're going with this, Cap, and it's an ingenious idea. As written, though, the Simulate Death Talent is a little too time-consuming and unpredictable for what Mal-2 is looking for; and Full Life Support is more than what's implied by the concept - Immune to Aging plus No Need to Eat, Excrete, Sleep and Breathe would probably cover it. Nonetheless, the SD Talent is based on Invisibility to Detect Life Signs/Paramedics/Forensic Medicine, and that plus the abovementioned Life Support mught cover the effect. I think a sort of "Must Be In Comatose State" Limitation would be warranted, and probably Trigger so it would occur automatically when the Marine is injured. If your character is injured below 0 BODY or you use the Bleeding rules, though, you'd need some kind of healing ability mixed in or the guy will still bleed to death... I'll have to think about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Hmm...yeah, Simulate Death doesn't always model this sort of effect all that well. As for the LS aspect, I still say Full Life Support is the way to go. If the guy's been hit with a biological or chemical weapon, suspended animation should still save his bacon. I thought about that BODY issue some time after posting. Probably some heavily limited Healing would be the best way to keep the guy from bleeding out after going into suspended animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation If BOD is suppressed, doesn't that make someone easier to kill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Bearing that in mind along with Lord Liaden's remark about suppressed attributes recovering immediately the suppress is switched off, then wouldn't suppress STUN be better? That way the character is just unconscious until the sus-an is switched off. Add in some level of life support- reduced aging, and I think that's a better approach. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation If BOD is suppressed' date=' doesn't that make someone easier to kill? [/quote'] You could interpret it that way, although the character is apparently already dead, so why bother? Unless you expect enemies who come across a Marine in this state to hack his body to pieces just to be certain he's dead. I don't know enough about the setting to know whether that's likely to happen. I'm afraid I don't really see the game-mechanic benefit of substituting STUN for BODY. Given common BODY and STUN totals for normals, and the differing cost for the two Characteristics, it probably wouldn't be any cheaper, plus you have to figure in the cost of Life Support. Being merely unconscious as opposed to apparently dead doesn't make a big difference if both states end when the Suppress is stopped. Also, a simply unconscious person may have a pulse, body temp etc. and you may want the suspended person to appear to be dead to examination, for esthetic or practical purposes. Please point out if I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Interdimensional Travel, forward in time only, to time/place where revival techniques applied, trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation You could interpret it that way' date=' although the character is apparently already dead, so why bother? Unless you expect enemies who come across a Marine in this state to hack his body to pieces just to be certain he's dead. I don't know enough about the setting to know whether that's likely to happen.[/quote']It's not really a matter of the setting, more a matter of how sus-an would work. First of all, why should being in sus-an make you easier to kill at all, which is what would happen if BOD is suppressed- you just have less BOD. Also, being at 0 or -ve BOD doesn't make you unconscious, it just leaves you bleeding to death. So sus-an done as suppress BOD requires regen just to keep you alive. I suppose this could represent unreliable sus-an technology, but I reckon that kind of thing would best be handled by side effects versus BOD tied to being wakened. I'm afraid I don't really see the game-mechanic benefit of substituting STUN for BODY. Given common BODY and STUN totals for normals, and the differing cost for the two Characteristics, it probably wouldn't be any cheaper, plus you have to figure in the cost of Life Support. Being merely unconscious as opposed to apparently dead doesn't make a big difference if both states end when the Suppress is stopped. Also, a simply unconscious person may have a pulse, body temp etc. and you may want the suspended person to appear to be dead to examination, for esthetic or practical purposes.It's not a matter of cheapness, it's a matter of how sus-an works. It puts you in deep sleep (ie. a controlled coma). This is an effect on STUN, not BOD it seems to me. The appearance of death could be modelled if you want, or you could just make it a special effect. Please point out if I'm missing something. Well there you go then. I think that the STUN-based sus-an is more logical, and simpler. That's about it really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation This is a little out there but what about life support Eat/excrete/age with concentration 0 DCV at the unaware level, and one dice of healing, triggered. As I understand it, the marine has to put himself - via autohypnosis or something similar - into suspended animation: otherwise no marine would ever bleed to death. Once that's done, his healing kicks in and the bleeding stops, but he is at 0 DCV and completely unaware of what is going on. He can still be mangled if anyone comes across his body. If he sets no time limit on his power use, then he stays that way until brought out of it. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Coming late to the game, but what the heck. Space Marines get a bunch of implanted organs that already include a small amount of Regenerative Healing and Immunity to poisons and such. So, I would go with Markdoc's suggestion and not worry about the other matters. Hmmm... perhaps I should stat up a Space Marine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiba Bob Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation If anyone is interested, I pumped out Space Marine implants awhile ago Cost** Power END ** Space Marine Implants [Notes: Do to genetic mutations, not all Implants are available for implation by most Marine Chapters except for Black Carapace which is required for a Space Marine Chapter to remain operational.]* 6** 1) Secondary Heart: +3 CON* 3** 2) Biscopea: +5 STR (5 Active Points); Linked (Haemastamen; -1/2)* 1 4** 3) Ossmodula: +3 BODY (6 Active Points); Linked (Haemastamen; -1/2)* 9** 4) Haemastamen: (Total: 9 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) +3 REC (Real Cost: 6) plus Life Support (Extended Breathing: 1 END per 5 Minutes) (Real Cost: 3)* 0 11** 5) Laraaman's Organ: Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)* 0 3** 6) Catalepsean Node: Lightsleep* 5** 7) Preomnor: Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents) (10 Active Points); Only Against Ingested Poisons (-1)* 0 11** 8) Omophagea: Minor Transform 2d6 (Absorb Genetic Memories), Improved Target Group (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (35 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Must Consume Part Of The Creature To Absorb Memories (-1/4)* 0 10** 9) Multi-Lung: Life Support (Expanded Breathing In Thin Atmosphere; Expanded Breathing In Toxic Atmospheres)* 0 9** 10) Occulobe: (Total: 9 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Nightvision (Real Cost: 5) plus +2 PER with Sight Group (Real Cost: 4)* 0 8** 11) Lyman's Ear: (Total: 11 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Hearing Group Flash Defense (3 points) (Real Cost: 3) plus +2 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group (Real Cost: 3) plus Power Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); Only Against Dizziness Or Nausea Caused By Extreme Disorientation (-2) (Real Cost: 2)* 0 12** 12) Sus-an Membrane: Healing BODY 6d6, Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection, Corpse Requires Chem Therapy & Auto-Suggestion To Activate Power (+0) (85 Active Points); 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Month (-3), Gradual Effect (1 Month; -2 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2)* [1] 2** 13) Melanochrome: Life Support (Safe in High Radiation)* 0 13** 14) Oolitic Kidney: Aid 1d6, Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), [four powers] simultaneously (+1), Continuous (+1) (40 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Uncommon SFX (Only Works Against The Effects Of Drugs, Poisons, And Other Toxins; -1), Only Restores to Starting Values (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)* 0 20** 15) Neuroglottis: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 20 Real Cost) Discriminatory with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 10) plus Tracking with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 10)* 0 2** 16) Mucranoid: Life Support (Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum); Requires A CON Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; For Every Hour Of Exposure; -1/4)* 0 16** 17) Betcher's Gland: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (37 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-3/4), No Range (-1/2)* [1 rc] 0** 18) Progenies* 0 4** 19) Black Carapace: Mind Link , Machine class of minds, Specific Group of Minds (10 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Class Of Minds [Power Armor Systems] (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)* 0 Powers Cost: 148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiba Bob Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Actually, if you have Hero Designer, here is my Space Marine Prefab. I have not gotten around to tailoring specific Marine chapters as of yet. If I can figure out how to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Here's my version. I'm not happy with my interpretations of the haemastamen, omophagea, or sus-an membrane. I think I'll be stealing... erm, er, "adopting" Chiba Bob's versions of those. Nice! SPACE MARINE IMPLANTS Source: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD098_Space_Marine_Implants.shtml The nineteen organs created by the ancient technicians of the Emperor are described in the following HD prefab. Each of these organs is extremely complicated and because many of the organs only work properly when another organ is present, the removal or mutation of one organ may affect the exact functioning of the others. For these reasons, implants must be constantly monitored, and many Marines have to undergo corrective surgery or chemo-therapy to re-balance their metabolisms occasionally (a Physical Limitation). SpaceMarineImplants.hdp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation For my SC universe suspended animation is built with life support as follows: 6 Suspended Animation Chamber: Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Character Must Sleep To Use; -2), OAF Bulky Chamber (-1 1/2) Just substitute the OAF to something more appropriate for a head implant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiba Bob Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation 40k Fluff Bible: "Marine may then enter into a state of suspended animation. This may be a conscious action, or may happen automatically in the event of extreme physical trauma. In this condition a Marine may survive for many years, even if bearing otherwise fatal injuries. Only appropriate chemical therapy and auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state - a Marine cannot revive himself. " I was more concerned with the "if bearing otherwise fatal injuries." I was accounting for situations such as my character takes a hit reducing him to negative BODY and Stun. My buddies can't get to me in time and I die from "bleeding to death" rules. Telling the GM, "I can't die! I have life support," didn't seem to cut it for me. That's why I looked at the Healing (resurrection) instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation 40k Fluff Bible: "Marine may then enter into a state of suspended animation. This may be a conscious action, or may happen automatically in the event of extreme physical trauma. In this condition a Marine may survive for many years, even if bearing otherwise fatal injuries. Only appropriate chemical therapy and auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state - a Marine cannot revive himself. " I was more concerned with the "if bearing otherwise fatal injuries." I was accounting for situations such as my character takes a hit reducing him to negative BODY and Stun. My buddies can't get to me in time and I die from "bleeding to death" rules. Telling the GM, "I can't die! I have life support," didn't seem to cut it for me. That's why I looked at the Healing (resurrection) instead. And I believe it's an excellent solution. I love it. Consider it yoinked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation The Critical Hit article on the subject that they have online mentions one Marine who survived for almost 600 years in sus-an. Incidentally, does the 40K Fluff Bible have any mention of how long Marines are supposed to live normally? [EDIT - Also, I thought about the need for chemo-therapy and autosuggestion in order to revive the Marine. What about Requires A SS: Chemo-therapy And PS: Autosuggestion Roll at -3/4?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiba Bob Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation The Critical Hit article on the subject that they have online mentions one Marine who survived for almost 600 years in sus-an. Incidentally, does the 40K Fluff Bible have any mention of how long Marines are supposed to live normally? The Critical Hit articles seem to cover things in more depth than the Fluff Bible does. I only quoted the Fluff Bible because it is handy on my desktop. As for a Marine's life-span, I have just assumed they lived "Normal Human" but I could be wrong. I just assumed that the only reason that Marine survived 600 years was because he was dead during that time. . [EDIT - Also' date= I thought about the need for chemo-therapy and autosuggestion in order to revive the Marine. What about Requires A SS: Chemo-therapy And PS: Autosuggestion Roll at -3/4?] Normally, the way I built this Power, it would require the "Trigger +1/4" Power Advantage but because the Resurrection Power allows one to define an external agent (as a Special Effect) to trigger a Resurrection, without having to buy the Power Advantage, I felt that adding any further Power Limitation, as you suggested, would be excessive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jim Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation they live longer than normal, don't know off the top of my head how much longer though ??!!? also, in the 40K universe normal humans can live several hundred years, but this requires them to be very rich or an important imperial agent . this is because the anti-aging treatments and selective bio/cyber surgeries are HUGELY expensive !!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation Which reminds me of my favourite item from the wargame- Has anyone made up Vortex Grenades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation What do Vortex Grenades do? If they're the "pull 'em closer, then explode" type, I'd use a TK AoE linked to an RKA Ex. How big an area do they affect? What size object? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation They wander randomly after going off, and occasionally grow larger, shrink in size or split into two or disappear.. Each Vortex is about 10m across initially. They are holes into the Warp. Anything touching it is effectively annihilated (although in later rules heroes get a chance to dodge out of the way). It moves at ground level, a hemisphere above the ground and one below creating a trench. Anything it moves through gets a hole in it. I used to use half a styrofoam ball painted black and 2" in diameter to represent them back in the day. Apart from the random behaviour, it could be expressed as a transdimensional teleport area effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: 40k Space Marines Suspended Animation That would appear to be an Extra-Dimensional Movement, Continuous, Uncontrollable, Usable As Attack, AoE, with a particularly nasty form of No Conscious Control (at the +1 level). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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