How to: Daredevil

[JmOz]

Daredevil has one power that I am finding very hard to model: He is able to use his hands to "read"

[Metaphysician]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Perhaps Analyze and/or Discriminatory on Touch sense group??

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Daredevil has one power that I am finding very hard to model: He is able to use his hands to "read"

Detect: Print, Discriminatory, no range, simulated sense: touch group or something along those lines.

[Jhamin]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I think this comes down to how you buy his blindness as a disad.

 

If it only penalizes him "infrequently" and "slightly" then he can still read (among other things). Just like any other character.

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I'd say that's just discriminatory on touch, and maybe a level of microscopic on touch so that he can feel the shape of the letters.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

ignore blindness. essentially he has altered sight.

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

ignore blindness. essentially he has altered sight.

I'm not as thrilled with this and other options involving playing around with the Blindness Physical Lim (though I grant you DD shouldn't get points for the blindness), because Mr. Murdock could still read in situations where other people couldn't.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I'm not as thrilled with this and other options involving playing around with the Blindness Physical Lim (though I grant you DD shouldn't get points for the blindness)' date=' because Mr. Murdock could still read in situations where other people couldn't.[/quote']

 

I'd give points for his blindness - he had to pay points for his other senses. He's among the stealthiest in the MU, but can be tripped up by not noticing the lights are on.

 

I like the Detect Print option above for his ability to read.

 

Note that while he can read in situations others couldn't (running his fingers over print in a dark room, for example), he can't read a sheet of paper on a table or hanging on the wall away from him (ie not being touched).

 

Has he ever been shown as able to read computer text, BTW?

[Sociotard]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

He might not be able to tell with a flourecent light, but his touch has detect heat signiture, ranged. He'd know if an incandescent light was on.

 

I doubt he could read a computer screen.

 

I would go with discriminatory for touch.

[Old Man]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I still don't understand why people want to charge DD points for his blindness...

[JmOz]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I still don't understand why people want to charge DD points for his blindness...

 

It's actualy a question of wether he deserve extra points for his blindness. He is quite functional with out his sight after all. so does it limit him?

 

My answer is yes it does but in a different way than most think of it. The blindness becomes akin to the NCM disad in that it becomes a question on how the character is built. He has to dedicate points to powers that compensate for his blindness, as such I will allow him to have up to the real points he has dedicated to said powers in a Phys lim for his blindness

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

It's actualy a question of wether he deserve extra points for his blindness. He is quite functional with out his sight after all. so does it limit him?

 

My answer is yes it does but in a different way than most think of it. The blindness becomes akin to the NCM disad in that it becomes a question on how the character is built. He has to dedicate points to powers that compensate for his blindness, as such I will allow him to have up to the real points he has dedicated to said powers in a Phys lim for his blindness

 

I'd handle this differently, in that many of those powers are more useful than normal sight. DD is blind, but thanks to that power set his Blindness is Infrequent and Slightly limiting, maybe worth 5 or 10 points. The issue (as I see it) is how much effect the disad will have in the game.

 

It's the same situation as a character who can't walk but can fly, or someone with TK but no arms. The Phys Lim is much less limiting, and so is worth fewer points.

[JmOz]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I'd handle this differently, in that many of those powers are more useful than normal sight. DD is blind, but thanks to that power set his Blindness is Infrequent and Slightly limiting, maybe worth 5 or 10 points. The issue (as I see it) is how much effect the disad will have in the game.

 

It's the same situation as a character who can't walk but can fly, or someone with TK but no arms. The Phys Lim is much less limiting, and so is worth fewer points.

 

I disagree (Obviously): What makes many of those powers useful is that it gives you an option (when you are blinded you can switch to sonar), this you have no option...

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I disagree (Obviously): What makes many of those powers useful is that it gives you an option (when you are blinded you can switch to sonar)' date=' this you have no option...[/quote']

 

An honest disagreement is no problem.

 

Daredevil is imune to sight group flashes, and ignores most types of darkness, from natural darkness to super-powers. Most forms of invisibility mean nothing to him. He can do almost everything a sighted person can do, and more.

 

That "almost" is what gets him points for the physical disad. There are occasionaly situations where his blindness is a problem.

 

His powers do make up for his disad, but he also gets the standard use out of them. I don't think he should get an effective discount on the powers just because he'd be blind without them.

[JmOz]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

An honest disagreement is no problem.

 

Daredevil is imune to sight group flashes, and ignores most types of darkness, from natural darkness to super-powers. Most forms of invisibility mean nothing to him. He can do almost everything a sighted person can do, and more.

 

That "almost" is what gets him points for the physical disad. There are occasionaly situations where his blindness is a problem.

 

His powers do make up for his disad, but he also gets the standard use out of them. I don't think he should get an effective discount on the powers just because he'd be blind without them.

 

I think the only part we disagree on is if the powers are truley "Better" than sight, I see them as equal, and as such see it as a wash, the character has a slight penalty as he is paying for it by not being able to dedicate as many points to disads

 

or to put it another way:

 

Character in a normal game is 350 points

A daredevil like character will be functianaly a 325 point character as he has used 25 points in disads for blindness that he has bought his sight to make it a diferent power (Sonar in this case).

but that is just my opinion, and I know we won't change each other's minds, but I think it is important to note that I would only allow the same amount of points for the disad as I deamed he spend to get arount it

 

Example: The Blob

5 Extra Limbs: Psudo pods

 

Disad: No Arms or legs: 5 point disad

 

Example: The Bat

20 Sonar: 15 points (IIRC) +5 360 degree

 

Disad: Blind as a bat: 15 points (same as the sonar to compensate for sight, but does not include the 360)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Example: The Blob

5 Extra Limbs: Psudo pods

 

Disad: No Arms or legs: 5 point disad

 

I wouldn't allow this disad. He has replaced his limbs with something else, and augmented them. It would have cost 5 points for 1 extra limb anyway.

 

Example: The Bat

20 Sonar: 15 points (IIRC) +5 360 degree

 

Disad: Blind as a bat: 15 points (same as the sonar to compensate for sight, but does not include the 360)

 

I would give the Bat his full 25 points. Sonar is an extra sense (*and cost points to acquire accordingly). The Bat cannot tell what colour the traffic light is, can't identify the VIPER agents by their green costumes, can't read a billboard or skywriting sending him a message, etc.

 

It's going to cost more than 25 points to offset all the drawbacks of blindness, which would leave me awarding the full 25 points in all cases.

 

As well, I don't give a character a discount on "no range modifier" because he has range skill levels so it won't be useful as often. Why should I reduce t6he points he gets from BLindness simply because his other powers mean it won't always have the same impact. Unlike a character who has Sonar and does not "sell back" his sight, the blind character is helpless if hearing flashed or hearing darkness'ed.

 

A character relying on an EB and force field doesn't lose the ability to get points back by selling back STR, and a character whose powers all feed on an END battery can still sell back his END. I don't consider this significantly different.

[Sociotard]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I wouldn't allow the -5 disadvantage for no limbs. Pseudopods is better represented with -15: no fine manipulation.

 

I would allow Daredevil to 'sell back' his normal sight, and not give him the disadvantage.

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

It's going to cost more than 25 points to offset all the drawbacks of blindness, which would leave me awarding the full 25 points in all cases.

 

As well, I don't give a character a discount on "no range modifier" because he has range skill levels so it won't be useful as often. Why should I reduce t6he points he gets from BLindness simply because his other powers mean it won't always have the same impact. Unlike a character who has Sonar and does not "sell back" his sight, the blind character is helpless if hearing flashed or hearing darkness'ed.

 

A character relying on an EB and force field doesn't lose the ability to get points back by selling back STR, and a character whose powers all feed on an END battery can still sell back his END. I don't consider this significantly different.

 

With Daredevil's raft of extra senses, it will be very rare that his lack of sight would interfere with his life. If it's only going to show up in play Infrequently (because he almost always has another sense to fall back on) and it's only going to be Slightly Impairing when it does (because he'll still have his extra senses even if they're not useful in this situation), then I'd say that it's only worth 5 points, maybe 10 if only one of his extra senses is Targetting.

 

YMMV, of course.

[austenandrews]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I'm with the Infrequent, Slightly crowd. The disability does come up, but not very often. The fact that he's paid for all his other senses is what makes Flash, Darkness, Invisibility, et al. less effective against him. That's why they cost so much, not because they compensate for his blindness.

 

-AA

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I'm not as thrilled with this and other options involving playing around with the Blindness Physical Lim (though I grant you DD shouldn't get points for the blindness)' date=' because Mr. Murdock could still read in situations where other people couldn't.[/quote']

On the other hand, I should have added, that I would probably added on some points some where else for his need to appear more restricted in his abilities than he really is when in Secret ID.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

With Daredevil's raft of extra senses, it will be very rare that his lack of sight would interfere with his life. If it's only going to show up in play Infrequently (because he almost always has another sense to fall back on) and it's only going to be Slightly Impairing when it does (because he'll still have his extra senses even if they're not useful in this situation), then I'd say that it's only worth 5 points, maybe 10 if only one of his extra senses is Targetting.

 

YMMV, of course.

 

He can't most text printed by modern methods. He can't read anything at all that is out of his immediate touch range. He can't discern a computer or TV screen. He can't discern color.

 

Right there he's more than slightly impaired, and in the modern world, those limits count for more than Infrequent.

 

I'm fine with giving him points for his Blindness, or at worst -5 from the normal cost.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

He can't most text printed by modern methods. He can't read anything at all that is out of his immediate touch range. He can't discern a computer or TV screen. He can't discern color.

 

Right there he's more than slightly impaired, and in the modern world, those limits count for more than Infrequent.

 

I'm fine with giving him points for his Blindness, or at worst -5 from the normal cost.

 

You wanna impress me, DD - take the wheel! How well does a guy who doesn't know which traffic light is lit drive?

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

He can't most text printed by modern methods. He can't read anything at all that is out of his immediate touch range. He can't discern a computer or TV screen. He can't discern color.

 

Right there he's more than slightly impaired, and in the modern world, those limits count for more than Infrequent.

 

I'm fine with giving him points for his Blindness, or at worst -5 from the normal cost.

 

The version of Daredevil under discussion can read by touch; cannon or no, "logical" or no, that was built into the thread. I agree that not being able to see a video display is a problem; hadn't thought of that. I'd add another 5 points onto the disad.

[OddHat]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

You wanna impress me' date=' DD - take the wheel! How well does a guy who doesn't know which traffic light is lit drive?[/quote']

 

Tony was driving down the street, with Bill on the passenger's side, when they came to a red light. "Just go on through," said Bill, "don't worry. M brother drives like this all the time." So, they went on through, no problem. They came to another red light, and as Tony started to slow down Bill insisted again "No, keep going, go on through! Don't worry, my brother drives like this all the time!" So, they went on through. Soon they came to a green light, and Bill shouted "Stop! Stop the car!" Confused, Tony stopped, and looked to Bill for an explanation.

 

"My brother might be coming the other way!"

 

-George Carlin

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

You wanna impress me' date=' DD - take the wheel! How well does a guy who doesn't know which traffic light is lit drive?[/quote']

Depends on how you measure success. Lack of tickets for running red lights and exceeding speed limits, or lack of accidents? Cause I know I'd feel safer riding with Mr. Murdock than I do with my mother, because he would actually be paying attention to the other traffic.