How to: Daredevil

[Old Man]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I agree that he isn't affected by Sight Flash attacks and Sight Darkness but he is effectively blinded by things that cause normal characters no problem at all.

 

Explosions and loud noise can seriously hamper his effectiveness and in some cases (depending on which DD you use) can cause him damage.

[Q-Aleph]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Well, if DD can sense heat at range, he might be able to tell which light was on by the amount of heat of the lamp. I guess that would depend on how fine tuned the sense is. Also by following patterns of traffic, he might be able to drive, provided he has cars as refference. But I would think that at higher speeds, the reaction time might be slower than people with sight (light travels faster). In a spressway, the "man without fear" could be causing a lot of fear for the other drivers.

 

As far as the the balance between blind and the enhanced senses... I agree with the limitations as far as video displays, but I think I read a issue where he saw paintings on the wall, because the paint on canvas gives it a different width on each shape. Again, depending on how fine tuning his extra senses. On an issue with a fire in a pizza place, DD knew there was a picture missing, because the spot where the picture was, did not have a layer of grease. But I don't know if he would be able to tell the same on ink on paper.

 

Dave

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Well' date=' if DD can sense heat at range, he might be able to tell which light was on by the amount of heat of the lamp. I guess that would depend on how fine tuned the sense is. Also by following patterns of traffic, he might be able to drive, provided he has cars as refference. But I would think that at higher speeds, the reaction time might be slower than people with sight (light travels faster). In a spressway, the "man without fear" could be causing a lot of fear for the other drivers.[/font']

 

Yes, light travels faster than sound, but we have no idea what DD's radar sense is based off it might be radio waves. Even so at the distances we are talking about the difference in the time for sound to travel vs. light to travel are unnoticable by people not using special equipment.

[Vondy]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

It's actualy a question of wether he deserve extra points for his blindness. He is quite functional with out his sight after all. so does it limit him?

 

My answer is yes it does but in a different way than most think of it. The blindness becomes akin to the NCM disad in that it becomes a question on how the character is built. He has to dedicate points to powers that compensate for his blindness, as such I will allow him to have up to the real points he has dedicated to said powers in a Phys lim for his blindness

DD: He was 6', 200 pounds, athletic, short curly hair. His features were blunt and brutal. He was wearing work-boots, denim jeans, and a windbraker.

 

BW: skin color? eye color? hair color? were they blue jeans or some other color? what color was the windbreaker? Did he have any distinguishing marks, like a tattoo? can you be certain about [something as basic as] his race...?

 

There's a lot of lim there for daredevil. There are some very basic details there that daredevil can't really answer (unless the writers are being... lame caveat pulling geek losers). With most people he can definately make a very educated guess, but not with everyone.

 

-----

 

DD: there was a piece of paper on the door.

 

BW: what did it say?

 

DD: I didn't have time to do my ink is like braille thing - the bullets started flying to quick. It got shredded when that maniac tried to clear the hall with a frag grenade.

 

BW: do you think it was the BIG CLUE?

 

DD: I don't want to go there.

 

----

 

I think DD should take the points for the lim. There are a lot of ways it can be exploited. Yes, he has powers that allow him to function remarkably well despite his blindness, but he still suffers drawbacks from it and he pays a lot more for his powers than the blindness would offset, anyways. As a GM I could come up with 25 points of lim despite his other powers.

 

DD: what the hell? its all on computer? what do you mean he doesn't own a freaking printer?

[Old Man]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

DD: what the hell? its all on computer? what do you mean he doesn't own a freaking printer?

 

And how would DD get the computer to print it in the first place?

 

Regarding the painting comment, it really depends on what medium was used. Oils, acrylics, water colors and mixed media all have different physical textures. Not to mention if they are mounted behind glass. Which brings us to photographs. If he is unable to touch a bunch of flying papers, DD would not know which one is the photo and which is trash. Even if he got his hands on it, he couldn't tell what it was a picture of.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Count me in with the full disad crowd. DD's blindness is still pretty limiting despite other powers he's bought.

 

Someone mentioned that they would allow DD to sell back his sight, but not take it as a disad. To my way of thinking, that allows him to have a free disad that doesn't count toward his 150 point maximum. It probably doesn't matter with a comic book conversion, but when the local rules lawyer gets a hold of it, you can bet he'll be selling back all kinds of stuff and taking other unrelated disads just to squeeze out some more points.

[dbsousa]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Depends on how you measure success. Lack of tickets for running red lights and exceeding speed limits' date=' or lack of accidents? Cause I know I'd feel safer riding with Mr. Murdock than I do with my mother, because he would actually be paying attention to the other traffic.[/quote']

 

Only in a convertible. Otherwise, he is in a box with a wheel. Reference: Frank Miller's run, where his super-soldier opponent with the flag tattooed on his face (Nuke?) has a heart attack, and Daredevil has to drive him to the hospital. He bashes the windows out of a cab, because while glass is transparent to visible light, radar bounces off it.

 

I would give him Social Lim: Legally Blind (can't have a driver's license) and some amount of Physical Lim, to reflect the above situation, and the following situation.

 

POLICE OFFICER(on megaphone, 100 yards away): Cut the blue wire!

DAREDEVIL: Do you mean the wire that smells more like almonds, or the one that smells like licorice?

POLICE OFFICER: what?

(SFX: MASSIVE EXPLOSION)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Someone mentioned that they would allow DD to sell back his sight' date=' but not take it as a disad. To my way of thinking, that allows him to have a free disad that doesn't count toward his 150 point maximum. It probably doesn't matter with a comic book conversion, but when the local rules lawyer gets a hold of it, you can bet he'll be selling back all kinds of stuff and taking other unrelated disads just to squeeze out some more points.[/quote']

 

 

I think the "sell back" is outside the official rules, but probably merits some analysis. Why can I sell back stats, running and swimming, but I have to take a disadvantage for "selling back" senses?

 

The most obvious one to me is leaping. All other forms of movement get sold back, but the elephant, for example, has a disad "Cannot Leap" equal to the value of the leaping sold back.

 

Maybe sale back of stats or default abilities should all be physical limitations, with a value equal to what it would have cost to purchase that default ability, just like the "value" of sight is 25 points. Alternatively, maybe all default abulities should be able to be sold back, essentially creating characters who have much greater base points, which are normally specifically allocated to certain default abilities.

 

[Will thewre be ANY munchkin players with a character who retains the sense of smell/taste if we take the latter route?]

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Taking a Disad for a sense you don't have is, in effect, a way of Selling It Back. you get the points for it either way.

 

I personally wouldn't allow a "sell back" of something like Sight because it smells too much like Cheese to me. A physical or social lim disad covers the bill quite nicely.

 

And he should get the full Disad for Blindness ... there are a million things in this world that we depend on sight for.

 

Color (this covers most of the million...), computer screen readouts...

 

someone has already pointed out many many things that would cause trouble for a person who can't use their eyes.

 

And social limitations are also there. Despite our claim on "civilization", society has a habit of discriminating against and disregarding people with certain disabilities, such as blindness.

 

and for the record, regardin computers and printers ... I don't own a printer. I can read a computer screen just fine, why would I waste the paper and ink to print it out? I know several people who don't own printers, especially with large capacity removable media and FTP transfers getting large chunks of text from one place to another is cheaper and faster not on paper... printers are anachronistic in my thinking. quiant even.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Taking a Disad for a sense you don't have is' date=' in effect, a way of Selling It Back. you get the points for it either way.[/quote']

 

Yes and no. I have never seen a player character with less than maximum disadvantage points. While the rules are phrased "200 points plus up to 150 in disadvantages", it might just as easily read "350 points, and the character must take disadvantages totaling 150". If senses were sold back, rather than

taken as a disadvantage, these would not count towards the 150 or 350 cap, giving that character more points to purchase other powers with.

 

Whether that's a good or bad thing, I don't know. However, there does appear to be a minor inconsistency in that some things (stats, running, swimming) get sold back and reduce total points, while others (senses, "cannot leap") are treated as disadvantages and feed towards the balancing of total points. It would not be hard to reclassify the salebacks as physical limitations ("Slow runner"; -2" running; 4 points; "Unattractive - -2 COM; 1 point). The only reason for not doing so that I can see is we would now have disads not readily divisible by 5, making precisely 150 more difficult to obtain. But the elephant sells his leap back for 9 points, so why is that a disad instead of a sellback?

 

I'm not suggesting a change is needed, or even that the current approach is not superior. I am suggesting there is an inconsistency here which, perhaps, merits a second look.

[starblaze]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Don't forget that Daredevil also can't read photographs.

[psm]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Here's a short list of the disadvantage that DD's blindness causes:

 

Can't operate a vehicle.

Can't view photographs, paintings, and some types of printing.

Can't view digital screens which include:

- Computers

- TVs

- ATMs

- Kiosks

- Some digital phones

- He would even have a tough time checking out at store with a credit card

Has limited range with his other senses. I believe he has a tough time with anything beyond 100 yards (especially when it comes to targeting).

[austenandrews]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

You guys make a good point. I might rate DD's blindness as either infrequently/major or frequent/minor, depending of course on the campaign.

 

-AA

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

The version of Daredevil under discussion can read by touch; cannon or no' date=' "logical" or no, that was built into the thread. I agree that not being able to see a video display is a problem; hadn't thought of that. I'd add another 5 points onto the disad.[/quote']

 

Actually, a couple of years ago, DD said something along the line of "Damn laser printers". He can't read every sort of print by touch.

[Old Man]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

- TVs

- ATMs

- Kiosks

 

I find it ironic that ATMs have brail keys on them. There are no audio cues as to what is on the screen and none indicating if there is a problem with the machine - wrong code, no cash, not plugged in...

 

.

[JmOz]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I especialy like the ones that are on the drivers side of drive through ATM's...

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I find it ironic that ATMs have brail keys on them. There are no audio cues as to what is on the screen and none indicating if there is a problem with the machine - wrong code, no cash, not plugged in...

 

.

 

I've actually encountered several ATMs that have audio cues on them when you hit buttons... they're all drive up ATMs however. I've never stopped to think about it to long for fear of coming up with a reason for the audio/brail ATMs being in the drive up lane but not in the lobby.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I especialy like the ones that are on the drivers side of drive through ATM's...

 

While that's a common "ever wonder why" joke, I suspect this just comes back to it being cheaper and more efficient to make all the machines identical than to builkd two separate types of keypad (one with bumps, one without) and ask the buyer whether tis ATM is going in a drive through.

[caris]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Plus, there is always the possibility of having the blind person in the rear Driver's side seat if you know that you are going to stop at the ATM.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Actually, it should be inkjet and bubblejet prints that he shouldn't be able to read. They don't change the texture of the paper at all. Most laser printers made today would also be impossible for DD to read, but older models (and maybe even a few current, but cheap, models) often did leave the toner slightly above the surface of the paper, rather than fully fusing it in.

 

Impact printers (offset presses, typewriters, dot matrix - remember those?) would all be easily read by DD. Not in the real world or course, but it does make at least some comic book sense to say that an ultra-hyper-sensitive sense of touch could feel the indentations.

 

Also solid ink printers, the ones that are sometimes called "crayon printers" could be read - sort of. The ink is definitely raised above the paper, but in some cases there is a solid smooth surface of ink which would feel as smooth as a polaroid photo. For example, highlighted text - he wouldn't be able to tell where the black letter ended and the yellow highlight began.

 

And he would be able to read anything written with a pencil or pen - even if the pen was out of ink! But maybe not a magic marker.

 

I used to work for Xerox.

 

Oh, and as long as I'm posting, I might as well throw in my opinion: I think he should get the full points for his blindness disad, otherwise what would be the point difference between him and a guy with all his senses, PLUS normal sight?

[CoreBrute]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I don't know whether this has already been said, But if all your looking for is his ability to read braille then wouldn't it be simpler to buy language Braille (automatically grants you literacy)?

 

 

If he attempted to read ink bits that weren't made in braille, he could make an INT roll on GM's discretion, since he could read English before he went blind. He's a smart guy, he would figure it out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I don't know whether this has already been said, But if all your looking for is his ability to read braille then wouldn't it be simpler to buy language Braille (automatically grants you literacy)?

 

 

If he attempted to read ink bits that weren't made in braille, he could make an INT roll on GM's discretion, since he could read English before he went blind. He's a smart guy, he would figure it out.

 

Nice idea and nice piece of thread necromancy for your very first post. Impressed

[JmOz]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

I don't know whether this has already been said, But if all your looking for is his ability to read braille then wouldn't it be simpler to buy language Braille (automatically grants you literacy)?

 

 

If he attempted to read ink bits that weren't made in braille, he could make an INT roll on GM's discretion, since he could read English before he went blind. He's a smart guy, he would figure it out.

 

Actualy, and wow bringing up a real old thing, was that because of his enhanced senses he was able to read normal writing by treating it like brail, he could read a newspaper for instance because "the ink used to print the paper was slightly raised, and while no normal human could tell the difference Matt Murdock's super sensitive fingers can, allowing the man with no fear to read the obituary of good comics called the Civil War"

[CoreBrute]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Thanks Sean, I do try to impress.

 

It does seem like the logical solution. But incase their are arguments about the INT roll meaning he can't read, make the guy spend an extra point for literacy (which you usually don't need for native language) to represent his relearning english writing combined with his advanced sense of touch.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How to: Daredevil

 

Actualy' date=' and wow bringing up a real old thing, was that because of his enhanced senses he was able to read normal writing by treating it like brail, he could read a newspaper for instance because "the ink used to print the paper was slightly raised, and while no normal human could tell the difference Matt Murdock's super sensitive fingers can, allowing the man with no fear to read the obituary of good comics called the Civil War"[/quote']

I would have assumed that it isn't the "slightly raised" ink on the page that he can feel, but rather the slight indentations caused by the impact of the printing plates. Liquid ink would be almost impossiple to feel on porous paper. And of course, he has no way to distinguish between colors of ink in any event, so a modern full-color comic book would be completely unreadable, since he can't tell where one color of ink ends and the next begins. Nor would he be able to reed slick-paper magazine pictures by the ink.