PhantomGM2602 Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Recently I've just purchased the six issue mini series from TOP COW prods called COMMON GROUNDS. It's about an franchise of coffee shops that cater to super heroes. the premise [shown below says it all: "They dot the landscape like becons of sanctuary,each one an oasis of safety and a little slice of home. It's the place where everybody does know your name,'cause sometimes that's your arch-foe sitting at the end of the counter. It's the place where heroes and villians can't have a senses shattering slugfest, but they can toss back a cup o' joe and a few crullers and shoot the breeze. So check your weapons and attitude at the door and come on in. Welcome to Common Grounds. May we take your order?" The min series reminded yours truly of Sanctuary in the 4th ed CU and is wondering if any of you Champs Gurus ever read this comic and got reminded of a certain neutral ground that we used in our campaigns . Maybe by chance you could create your own 'Common Grounds" or Sanctuary- styled restaurant,coffe shop or maybe a community center for superheroes in your campaigns? BTW the stories i've read in that book can get you thinking, or laughing out loud by your computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnoViking Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I never like Sanctuary in 4th edition. Would a Hero not arrest a villian (especially a murderer) just because he is on "neutral ground". I much rather see a complete re-make of Stronghold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU The idea has some absurdist appeal, and it works in commedy and light hearted games. It does not work very well in "realistic" games. I do use metahuman bars in many of my games, and I like underworld bars, but I never liked the idea of Captain Justice sitting down for a nice beer with a serial rapist, and I don't have that many harmless campy villains in my games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigeoliver Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I have no problem with the Sanctuary idea. I have always been under the idea that there is a lot less seperating the heroes and villians than they think. Of course most of my supervillians are not the murdering or raping type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU The concept of 'Sanctuary' makes no sense in any but the most Silver Age of games. Now, if you had *two* of them -- a hero bar, and a villain club -- that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I never like Sanctuary in 4th edition. Would a Hero not arrest a villian (especially a murderer) just because he is on "neutral ground". I imagine it would depend on whether the villain was a wanted criminal in the country where the encounter takes place or whether the locals have an extradition treaty with the hero's country. Arresting Dr. Doom in Latveria is probably not an option. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I imagine it would depend on whether the villain was a wanted criminal in the country where the encounter takes place or whether the locals have an extradition treaty with the hero's country. Arresting Dr. Doom in Latveria is probably not an option. Scott Bennie It's a Silver Age versus Bronze versus Iron question. Silver Age Villains giggle, pose, trap the heroes in giant pinball machines, and try to conquer the world with their Space Rock Bands. A drink with one of those guys works out fine. Bronze Age Bad Guys? Well, a drink with one of the more Silverish baddies still makes some sense, even if they occasionally rob a bank; their main job is still to pose and prance. The actual criminals, drug dealers and killers, well, that depends on the ethics of the Hero. Iron Age? No. Even the well done Iron Age baddies are real criminals, with the possible exception of borderline Bronze Ager political rebels. Only the most corrupt "heroes" would casually hang with them, though of course Rusty Iron Age heroes can be deeply creepy as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU It's a Silver Age versus Bronze versus Iron question. Silver Age Villains giggle, pose, trap the heroes in giant pinball machines, and try to conquer the world with their Space Rock Bands. A drink with one of those guys works out fine. Bronze Age Bad Guys? Well, a drink with one of the more Silverish baddies still makes some sense, even if they occasionally rob a bank; their main job is still to pose and prance. The actual criminals, drug dealers and killers, well, that depends on the ethics of the Hero. Iron Age? No. Even the well done Iron Age baddies are real criminals, with the possible exception of borderline Bronze Ager political rebels. Only the most corrupt "heroes" would casually hang with them, though of course Rusty Iron Age heroes can be deeply creepy as well. Of course, another iron age option is that the "heroes" are perfectly willing to have a drink with the "villains," because there isn't a great difference between the two and they feel more kinship with other superhumans than with ordinary mortals. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Of course' date=' another iron age option is that the "heroes" are perfectly willing to have a drink with the "villains," because there isn't a great difference between the two and they feel more kinship with other superhumans than with ordinary mortals. . .[/quote'] True. That's just a bit too Rusty Iron for my tastes these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Of course' date=' another iron age option is that the "heroes" are perfectly willing to have a drink with the "villains," because there isn't a great difference between the two and they feel more kinship with other superhumans than with ordinary mortals. . .[/quote'] You know, that pretty much sums up the reason for the Amp Room's existence in Aberrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU You know' date=' that pretty much sums up the reason for the Amp Room's existence in Aberrant.[/quote'] I actually had the Elites in mind when saying that, but yeah, same principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I actually had the Elites in mind when saying that' date=' but yeah, same principle.[/quote'] Again true. On the other hand, Aberrant includes "heroes" who are taint-twisted serial killers, invincible bar-boys and other Rusty Iron goodness. Go that far in that direction and you end up someplace in some ways even sillier than the Silver Age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU In all honesty, I'd probably raid the place and smack down everyone. A nice place for a bad guy to get a cup of coffee? Well, you're pretty much just harboring a fugitive, aintcha? I always found neutral ground silly. If you're a wanted bad guy, you're getting popped... no matter what the house rules of some resort or deli owner says. Yes, even in international waters or independent islands or whatever. If I'm there, I'm poppin' them. It's convenient being a hypocrite, sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Sanctuary works if you have some absurdly powerful guy behind it. Like the Archmage or Pug. I liked the premise but depends on the vilains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Again true. On the other hand' date=' Aberrant includes "heroes" who are taint-twisted serial killers, invincible bar-boys and other Rusty Iron goodness. Go that far in that direction and you end up someplace in some ways even sillier than the Silver Age. [/quote'] Also, by definition in the default Aberrant setting you are not a Hero, and you are not there to fight bad guys or protect the innocent. I doubt many played it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU In all honesty, I'd probably raid the place and smack down everyone. A nice place for a bad guy to get a cup of coffee? Well, you're pretty much just harboring a fugitive, aintcha? I always found neutral ground silly. If you're a wanted bad guy, you're getting popped... no matter what the house rules of some resort or deli owner says. Yes, even in international waters or independent islands or whatever. If I'm there, I'm poppin' them. It's convenient being a hypocrite, sometimes Gotta agree with Acro here Reminds me of the "Bar with No Name" ... all I need now is a white trenchcoat, hat and skull mask ... oh and a tommy gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomGM2602 Posted October 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Gotta agree with Acro here Reminds me of the "Bar with No Name" ... all I need now is a white trenchcoat' date=' hat and skull mask ... oh and a tommy gun [/quote'] OHH PUHLEASE and a half! I am talking about a nuetral place where heroes and villians[specifically Teen and old /retired heroes and villians can relax and shoot the breeze without it being a all out fight. A place where paranromals can be themselves and be treated as normal people instead of instant celeberties having the press in thier face every 24/7. Even heroes with secret ids need a vacation from saving the world every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU OHH PUHLEASE and a half! If I've dedicated my life and safety to taking these people down, why the hell would I care about them taking their shoes off and trying to be normal? Why would I want them to relax? Why would I want to treat them like normal people? Why wouldn't I want it to be a fight? If they're wanted criminals (retired or not), if people are helping them, if I know where they are... they're all targets. I don't care if they are enjoying a latte or discussing the merits of good parenting. I especially don't care if their life of crime has them stressed out. If they are not currently wanted, why in the world would I want to associate with these scumbags? Why would those with the more vigilante bent care if they're not wanted... justice to be served in spite of the law. When I need a break, I take the mask off. When there's a big gathering of bad guys I can pop all at once... well, I can read the scores from the ball game in the paper tomorrow, there's work to do. The reverse is true, too. Why would many villains care about playing by the rules? Those guys I've been trying to kill and beat me up all the time are all in one place playing Chutes & Ladders and talking about the last time they watched Friends on TV. This calls for a bomb or something. A place like that needs a real powerhouse to force it to be neutral. And, even then, you have to wonder why this dillweed isn't out there doing something for real instead of slinging scones and magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Err.. I actually have a netrual sort of setting in my own campaign's Chicago. Joe is the guy who holds them in check as best he can. Joe is a brick, maybe something else too. For some reason folks tend to listen to him and believe him when he says he can break their heads if they won't take it outside. Joe serves superhumans. He doesn't care villain or hero. He makes damn good sammichs and dogs. He can grill you up any meat you care for him to (no, not human... it's not that iron age) and yes, he's powerful. Joe refuses to serve "nutbars who can't take it easy" in the first place. The place has become a place where heroes and villains can coexist in peace, if they wish. Telling tales, swapping stories... and pump each other for as much information as possible and plan to bushwhack each other on the street outside sometime. Always plotting... where was I? The Fabulous Four has decided so far to leave Joe's be, and even visit in order to keep tabs. If villains are in Joe's, they aren't on the streets. It's not unlike Leo's in MC only instead of agents, we have lowlevel villains and heroes. Of course, Joe doesn't let murderers into his place... more the small time hoods of the costumed world. I realize it doesn't make sense, but it's an enjoyable little spot anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU A place like that needs a real powerhouse to force it to be neutral. And, even then, you have to wonder why this dillweed isn't out there doing something for real instead of slinging scones and magazines. Laziness, having 'Superhuman Supremacy/Sepratism' views but can't be bothered to fight for it, havign retired... Not too hard to have someone in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU OHH PUHLEASE and a half! I am talking about a nuetral place where heroes and villians[specifically Teen and old /retired heroes and villians can relax and shoot the breeze without it being a all out fight. A place where paranromals can be themselves and be treated as normal people instead of instant celeberties having the press in thier face every 24/7. Even heroes with secret ids need a vacation from saving the world every now and then. To each their own PGM Enjoy the saftey of Sanctuary in your campaign ... in mine, the place might as well be built on a huge target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I do not intend this to provoke those who say: "I am a Hero! My job is to kick Evil's butt, wherever I find it!" mainly because that is my basic philosophy too. However, reading this thread has given me pause and caused me to take a look at some things I had never really thought about. (NOTE: I usually GM/play Golden Age campaigns. I don't think the following would make sense in an Iron Age setting.) Is anyone ever reformed just by having their butt kicked? Other than preventing the act that the villain is attempting at the minute you attack him, and whatever he would have done during the time that he is in jail, what good does it do? Now I am not advocating a switch from the Captain Kirk approach (duke it out) to the Captain Picard approach (schedule a meeting), because that would make for dull gameplay, at least for me. (I like a good scrap as much as the next guy!) However, I can allow for someone very advanced and very powerful having a more philosophical view of things. Take a look at the Star Trek episode "Errand of Mercy". That is the one where The Federation and The Klingons are about to break into open warfare, with the small "backward" planet of Organia being the first battlefield. In the end, it turns out that the Organians are immensely powerful. So powerful that they just end the war, by threatening to render all Federation and Klingon starships and weapons inoperable. With only a thought! Imagine an Organian showing up on an Earth filled with Superheroes and Supervillains. They would have the power to enforce neutrality. But they might also have a good reason for it. What better way for a Supervillain to learn how to control his darker urges than by spending some non-violent time with a Superhero. After all, it would be hard for a normal human counselor to relate to someone whose anger erupts in the form of magma. But a hero could, if there was a chance to, really understand what someone with a lot of power can go through trying to deal with the frustrations of day to day life. While this will not result in a utopia, since many villains are misanthropic, disturbed, etc., there could be some real progress, especially among the borderline cases. To a peace-loving race, even a few successes could be worth the effort it would take. And I can see some Four-Color heroes that would participate, not to have a place to relax, but to have a chance to do what they are always doing, help someone who needs it. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU If one is looking for someone with the power to say... create an island and enforce the peace even as it somehow encourages those who are normally on opposing sides to be together... well, the Examiner from "Galactic Champions" is certainly a possiblity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU Any plot that requires an Uber NPC to keep my players in line is one that I would look at very carefully before using. This kind of bar only works if the "Heroes" or the "Villains" aren't. That said, there's no reason not to have metahuman bars that are not filled with heroes and villains... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7Michelle Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Re: Common Grounds & Sanctuary for the New CU I have mixed feelings on this one. On the pro side, I think they could be an incredibly fun addition to a game. I know I would enjoy having them in our games. For instance, in our supervillains game, my character actually got taken out to dinner by one of the heroes. He spent the evening trying to understand her motives and trying to convert her to the right side. And of course, she did much the same with him. ::Grins:: And of course, both of them were also trying to do a little subtle mining for information. I loved that session. It gave me the chance to get a better feel for my character, and it was just all around fun. And to be honest, I’d love the chance to do it again. Just like I’d adore the chance to see our characters debate the heroes about mutant rights issues, etc. Something like this would be a good setting for those types of things. The same holds true in our Senshi game, where we are the heroes. On more than one occasion, we’ve attempted to convert our foes rather than just destroy them. And we’ve had a few successes. I could easily see us abiding by the house rules of neutrality, just so we could get the chance to try to talk things out with some of our foes. Sure, we'd be tempted to use it as a chance to deal with some of our enemies that we are sure can't be saved. But maybe sometimes, its better to let them get away for the moment in the hopes that we can achieve a bigger goal of actually bringing peace. Violence isn't always the right choice, sometimes, talking and listening works much better. (Of course that setting is far from a the normal super hero setting. Primary difference being that everything is hidden from the mundain world and we DON'T have the option of turning enemies over to the cops or putting them in jail) In addition to attempts to convert on both sides. There are other benefits to this type of place as well: • They provide a place to gather information. • They provide a safe place for negotiations or exchanges to take place. • If a group of heroes and villains are cooperating against a greater foe (something that’s far from rare in comics), they provide a neutral ground to meet. After all, do you really want your enemy in your secret base? • Plus they are just a fun place to exchange threats and blusters. And I think that several people have made valid points about supers just being a bit different from normal people. There was a very good thread a while back on the problems with having powers. (Things like speedsters being frustrated with how slow the world is. Bricks being afraid of accidentally hurting someone. And how even real world martial artists run into certain problems relating.) And, of course, depending on if you have a secret id, etc. You may well be constantly dealing with crowds of people, reporters, etc. Supers might find it relaxing to be with other with others who share a similar type of life to them, even if they are opposite sides of the coin. On the negative side, there is the whole, problem with realism factor. Questions such as, why are the heroes not attempting to arrest (or kill) the villains and vice versa, have to be dealt with. In the case of a powerful person preventing fights inside the building you have to consider ambushes outside as well. After all, if those occur regularly, it sort of negates the benefits of the neutral ground. And of course, some types of heroes (and players) would find the whole thing incredibly frustrating. Ultimately, I suppose it comes down to the general tone of the game and the types of heroes and villains. I do think I want to read that comic book series though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.