Hey Surbook:

[JmOz]

What is an Oni, and do you have the stats for one?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Can't give you stats offhand, but I can send you to a brief definition and a clickable image:

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/o/oni.html

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

1st Ed AD&D used oni as their inspiration for the ogre mage.

[JMHammer]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Hmm... I thought you were referring to the Bungie game:

 

http://oni.bungie.org/res/

[Sketchpad]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

There are also several types of Oni ... As far as statting them out, I would imagine that they'd be covered in Mike's Asian Bestiary ... but I could be wrong

[Susano]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Oni are a form of Japanese "yokai" or monster. They are somewhat like Western ogres, and did form the basis of the AD&D Ogre Magi. Oni are servants of Yomi, the underworld, and tend go about persecuting sinners and tempting people into evil. They are covered in the The HERO System Asian Bestiary, where I give several options and the like.

[JmOz]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Did I miss Asian Beastiary? I did not think it was released yet...

[Susano]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Due out late 2005.

[JmOz]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Cool, thanks for the help

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Just to interject;

 

Oni are nothing like western ogres. However the Japanese term "Oni" is often translated into english as "Ogre" when its more accurate to not translate it at all, or if you do, use the term "demon" which is much closer.

 

This mistake is often made because in old Japanese paintings and drawings, Oni often looked a lot like western Ogres. Thats where the resemblance ends. They are highly magical in nature and oftentimes exceptionally intelligent and cruel. In many legends Oni are incredibly powerful and only the strongest and most wiley of legenary samurai were able to defeat them in combat. I believe the legendary Samurai Raiko defeated many Oni.

[Susano]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

I said "somewhat" only because oni and ogres are both large humanoids noted for equally large and unpleasant appetites. Both are known to kidnap women, rob, murder, and plunder, and are often fought by heroes. And yes, oni are highly magical beings, and usually, but not always, more intelligent than an ogre. But then, oni are more supernatural in origin than ogres.

[yamamura]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

and lovers of good sake (one way to beat an Oni IIRC) *hic* hmm good Sake;)

 

G

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

I said "somewhat" only because oni and ogres are both large humanoids noted for equally large and unpleasant appetites. Both are known to kidnap women' date=' rob, murder, and plunder, and are often fought by heroes. And yes, oni are highly magical beings, and usually, but not always, more intelligent than an ogre. But then, oni are more supernatural in origin than ogres.[/quote']

 

Oh, I know you knew, I was simply informing the uninformed. It bugs me that supposedly professional translators make mistakes like that. I barely know any japanese at all, and I know that much.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

and lovers of good sake (one way to beat an Oni IIRC) *hic* hmm good Sake;)

 

G

 

Or you can drive oni away by throwing beans at them, and have something left to wash down with good sake afterward.

[Markdoc]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Just to interject;

 

Oni are nothing like western ogres. However the Japanese term "Oni" is often translated into english as "Ogre" when its more accurate to not translate it at all, or if you do, use the term "demon" which is much closer.

 

Sort of true: but only if you make the equally common mistake of confusing "western Ogre" with "D and D Ogre": Many Ogres of original western myth had magical powers (shapeshifting was a common one, as in "I bet you can't turn into a mouse") and all the trappings - magic swords, invisible castles, etc. In this regard, they are not so different from Oni.

 

cheers, Mark

[yamamura]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

I think we hit on something that is true for any RPG monster here. When you create a creature based on myth, you have to decide what stories to use and what stories to leave out. So when we look into an RPG description of the monster we must understand that that is just one possible write-up for the monster. Thinking about it, a good write up also gives the world level of consistency by saying this is how the creature works in reality and thus differs from the folklore surrounding it. But there is nothing stopping you from using Oni also as an uber class (kind of like Demons) and thus having a variety of powers and weaknesses.

 

G

[Markdoc]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

So when we look into an RPG description of the monster we must understand that that is just one possible write-up for the monster. Thinking about it' date=' a good write up also gives the world level of consistency by saying this is how the creature works in reality and thus differs from the folklore surrounding it.G[/quote']

 

Actually what I do in my game is to try to get away from "specific monsters". So my bestiary has two categories - animals and monsters.

 

Animals (even bizarre ones, like Dragons) are a species - you breed two of them and you get another one of the same. If you've seen one, you've seen them all, pretty much. There are variations in size and colour and general character, but people can identify them once they know what they are (A shetland pony is different from a Percheron, but still, a horse is a horse is a horse, of course).

 

Monsters OTOH are one of a kind, never seen before, never seen again. For them I provide how-to-assemble templates. So instead of elves, and pixies and fays and brownies, etc, I just have "fays". Most of them are magical and most of them have antipathy to iron and sunlight, but they can be teeny-tiny or bigger than a manor house, helpful or malign, wise or ditzy. Most people could recognise a fay if they saw one, but a description of one wouldn't tell you much about another.

 

Thus "Troll" in my game doesn't mean regeneration and green skin - it just means big, magical, bad-tempered, hard-to-kill fairy: which is how it was in myth and folklore up until LOTR and DnD. Compare the "elves" in LOTR with the "Elfs" in the king of Elfland's daughter or the Kingdoms of Elven - all early 20th century fantasy elves and all utterly different.

 

cheers, Mark

[yamamura]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Actually what I do in my game is to try to get away from "specific monsters". So my bestiary has two categories - animals and monsters.

 

Animals (even bizarre ones, like Dragons) are a species - you breed two of them and you get another one of the same. If you've seen one, you've seen them all, pretty much. There are variations in size and colour and general character, but people can identify them once they know what they are (A shetland pony is different from a Percheron, but still, a horse is a horse is a horse, of course).

 

Monsters OTOH are one of a kind, never seen before, never seen again. For them I provide how-to-assemble templates. So instead of elves, and pixies and fays and brownies, etc, I just have "fays". Most of them are magical and most of them have antipathy to iron and sunlight, but they can be teeny-tiny or bigger than a manor house, helpful or malign, wise or ditzy. Most people could recognise a fay if they saw one, but a description of one wouldn't tell you much about another.

 

Thus "Troll" in my game doesn't mean regeneration and green skin - it just means big, magical, bad-tempered, hard-to-kill fairy: which is how it was in myth and folklore up until LOTR and DnD. Compare the "elves" in LOTR with the "Elfs" in the king of Elfland's daughter or the Kingdoms of Elven - all early 20th century fantasy elves and all utterly different.

 

cheers, Mark

 

 

Like my Uber class idea then;)

 

G

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Monsters OTOH are one of a kind, never seen before, never seen again.

 

 

I wish you had been in on the creation of D&D. Too many of those monsters are flippin' FREAKS that have no place in the world except to be in this one adventure, and yet, they all seem to have an "ecology". I don't even like the idea of a lot of those things having names. "Monster" or "beast" or "hideous fiend" is as specific as they need to get.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Playing around with mythology can be fun! Rumiko Takahashi did it all the time. I remember once being told "The best way to understand Urusei Yatsura is to VBE Japanese."

 

Takahashi satirized the tradtional take on Oni by have them as a race of aliens and kaing her main character a young Oni who happens to be gorgeous instead of hideous. Orgiinally she was meant to plague the life of the here, but over time she mellowed consideraly (although she did retain her violent jealous streak).

 

Her electric shocks were also a nice touch.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Playing around with mythology can be fun! Rumiko Takahashi did it all the time. I remember once being told "The best way to understand Urusei Yatsura is to VBE Japanese."

 

Takahashi satirized the tradtional take on Oni by have them as a race of aliens and kaing her main character a young Oni who happens to be gorgeous instead of hideous. Orgiinally she was meant to plague the life of the here, but over time she mellowed consideraly (although she did retain her violent jealous streak).

 

Her electric shocks were also a nice touch.

Nice for you. You weren't their target, were you?

Ow, my misspent youth.

[Merlin273]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Mike,

 

How is it you know so much about Japanese culture? Have you lived there a long time? Master's in Asian Studies? Big Anime fan? What?

 

BTW, are you ever going to add the SLAYERS cast to your list at Surbrook's Stuff? You did such a great job with the Bebop crew, you gotta do Lina Inverse & Co.!

[Susano]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Mike,

 

How is it you know so much about Japanese culture? Have you lived there a long time? Master's in Asian Studies? Big Anime fan? What?

 

BTW, are you ever going to add the SLAYERS cast to your list at Surbrook's Stuff? You did such a great job with the Bebop crew, you gotta do Lina Inverse & Co.!

 

Watching anime, watching samurai films, reading assorted reference works on the samurai time period, reading certain RPG books (esp. GRG's SENGOKU, reading a lot of stuff on Asian folklore and supernatural weirdness.

 

Oh, and sorry to say, SLAYERS will not be added to my website -- by me. I don't own any of the anime, and don't intend to. If someone wants to send me the write-ups, that's great, but I have too much on my plate as it is.

[Susano]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

Thus "Troll" in my game doesn't mean regeneration and green skin - it just means big, magical, bad-tempered, hard-to-kill fairy: which is how it was in myth and folklore up until LOTR and DnD. Compare the "elves" in LOTR with the "Elfs" in the king of Elfland's daughter or the Kingdoms of Elven - all early 20th century fantasy elves and all utterly different.

 

Actually, the trolls in LOTR seem to be what you describe. The D&D troll (and thus the big, green, regenerator look) comes directly from Poul Anderson's THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS.

[Southern Cross]

Re: Hey Surbook:

 

This is true.Evidently whoever wrote up the D&D troll used the troll from that book as the template.