Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

[Guest Dr. Dementos]

A player in my group has come up with two very confusing/expensive character concepts that perplex me as to making affordable and balanced. The group is Standard Superheroic (200 Base + 150 Disadvantage Points) with an Active Point limit of 60 (I allow a 3-Point Leeway).

 

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The first he came up with was a character that is a sentient dimensional hole. Dimensional Manipulation Powers from USPD covers a few of the things that he can do, but the fact is that much of him is either inherent or makes sense to me (as far as superheroics can make sense). I get his concept, but he is expensive as far as I can see. I tried a slightly limited Cosmic Power Pool, but I think you guys can come up with something better.

 

Some Examples of what he wants to be able to do:

He can look into any dimension (a transdimensional Clairsentience) because he is in every dimension.

He can teleport anything that touches him. (Teleportation UAA Damage Shield)

He is naturally Intangible (Inherent Desolidification).

He can access any dimension for attacking and defending (I'm thinking EB VSE and a Damage Shield version of it).

This is just the tip of the iceberg for him.

He doesn't seem to be trying to undermine me, but he is vastly more original than anybody else in my group.

 

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This is his other idea: a symbiote (similar to Venom and Carnage), but he can change bodies on a whim (granted he has to establish contact). He merges with the other character to form one character that is basically an improved version of the character he merged with in the first place.

 

I've thought that maybe making a VPP that only makes Multiforms could do the trick, but it sounds unbalancing. I've thought that maybe mapping out every possible character he could merge with and making a character sheet might help, but that's ludicrous! Help me!

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Symbiote: Who controls the merged body?

 

(Stats, usable by others, seems to mostly fit)

[Guest rbezold]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Symbiote- I think you're right about using a VPP limited to multi-power. If you stick to your guns regarding 60pt limits, then the best he can get is a 40pt pool + 20pt control cost = 60pts. That's not too unbalancing.

 

Dimensional Hole - It would be difficult to create any kind of an effective attack for a naturally desolid character and keep within any kind of reasonable point limitation. Case in point: 5" teleport. Normally 10 active, right? Now add in Damage Shield +1/2, Usable While Desolid +2, and Usable Against Others +1, and you have 45 active points. And any damaging powers will also have to be bought with that damage shield and usable while desolid, which means every d6 of a normal attack will cost 17.5 active. This limits you to 3d6 max.

 

As for his affecting beings in every dimension, I would fudge a little, and give it to him as a physical Disadvantage. After all, if he's in EVERY dimension, he can't escape from anyone, right? And if someone from the fourth dimension wants to hassle him, he's on his own...

[levi]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Not that I would definitely consider this type of character a hero as such, but if a player could convince me to let him/her to play this type of character, here's the way I would do it.

 

Symbiote Hero?

 

Player:

 

Val**	Char***	Cost
10**	STR	0
10**	DEX	0
10**	CON	0
10**	BODY	0
13**	INT	3
11**	EGO	2
25**	PRE	15
10**	COM	0
	*
2/17**	PD	0
2/17**	ED	0
2**	SPD	0
4**	REC	0
20**	END	0
20**	STUN	0

*6"**RUN02"**SWIM02"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 20

 

Cost**	Power	END
18**	Symbiotic Form: Elemental Control, 36-point powers*
28**	1) Amorphous Form: Desolidification (affected by Sonics & Fire), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)*	0
20**	2) Textile Chameleon: Shape Shift (Sight and Touch Groups, Normal Looking Clothing), Imitation, Instant Change (38 Active Points)*	4
18**	3) Symbiotic Viality: LS (Eating Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per Minute; Immunity All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum), Usable By Other (+1/4) (36 Active Points)*	4
19**	4) Increased Resilience: FF (15 PD/15 ED), Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points)*	4
22**	5) Body Forming: Clinging (75 STR), Usable By Other (+1/4) (40 Active Points)*	4
26**	6) Body Elongation: Stretching 7", Usable By Other (+1/4) (44 Active Points)*	4
15**	7) Formed Claws: HKA 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	8) Body Projections: RKA 2d6, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	9) +30 STR, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	10) +10 DEX, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	11) +15 CON, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	12) +15 BODY, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	13) +3 SPD, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	14) +15 REC, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	15) +60 END, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	16) +30 STUN, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	17) Running 15", Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	18) Leaping 30", Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4

Powers Cost: 315

 

 

Cost**	Skill
3**	Conversation 14-*
3**	Disguise 12-*
3**	Persuasion 14-*
3**	Seduction 14-*
3**	Stealth 11-*

Skills Cost: 15

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

Val**	Disadvantages
5**	Dependence: Requires Host Body Takes 3d6 Damage (Easy To Obtain, 1 Day)*
10**	Hunted: Former Unwilling Hosts 11- (Less Pow, Harshly Punish)*
10**	Physical Limitation: Limited Manipulation without Host (Infrequently, Greatly Impairing)*
20**	Psychological Limitation: Fear of Being Alone (Common, Total)*
15**	Social Limitation: Parasitic Creature (Frequently, Major)*
20**	Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Sonics (Common)*
20**	Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Fire (Common)*

Disadvantage Points: 100

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 50

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

This character still needs 50 Disadvantage Points to be square.

 

The Desolid was bought to represent the Symbiote's Amorphous Form and ability to merge with a Host.

Most of the Powers were bought with Useable on Others along with the Pow Lim (Cannot Target Self) to reinforce the Symbiote's dependence on the host.

 

According to the Useable on Others entry the target can choose not to receive the powers. This is where the Symbiote's 25 PRE and PRE-based Skills come into play.

 

Again as a GM, I would caution you against allowing such a player character unless you have the best player ever and are prepared for the worst case scenario (such as this character attaching itself to Grond). I think that depriving the Symbiote of Mind Control and requiring the Persuasion to be Role-Played may be enough to balance this, but it will still be tricky.

 

Best of Luck, Hope this helps...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Symbiote- I think you're right about using a VPP limited to multi-power. If you stick to your guns regarding 60pt limits, then the best he can get is a 40pt pool + 20pt control cost = 60pts. That's not too unbalancing.

 

Dimensional Hole - It would be difficult to create any kind of an effective attack for a naturally desolid character and keep within any kind of reasonable point limitation. Case in point: 5" teleport. Normally 10 active, right? Now add in Damage Shield +1/2, Usable While Desolid +2, and Usable Against Others +1, and you have 45 active points. And any damaging powers will also have to be bought with that damage shield and usable while desolid, which means every d6 of a normal attack will cost 17.5 active. This limits you to 3d6 max.

 

As for his affecting beings in every dimension, I would fudge a little, and give it to him as a physical Disadvantage. After all, if he's in EVERY dimension, he can't escape from anyone, right? And if someone from the fourth dimension wants to hassle him, he's on his own...

 

NND helps with low AP attacks. Being invulnerable and gently nudging their STUN score down works, especially if you have a lot of SPD.

[Guest Dr. Dementos]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Not that I would definitely consider this type of character a hero as such, but if a player could convince me to let him/her to play this type of character, here's the way I would do it.

 

Symbiote Hero?

 

Player:

 

Val**	Char***	Cost
10**	STR	0
10**	DEX	0
10**	CON	0
10**	BODY	0
13**	INT	3
11**	EGO	2
25**	PRE	15
10**	COM	0
	*
2/17**	PD	0
2/17**	ED	0
2**	SPD	0
4**	REC	0
20**	END	0
20**	STUN	0

*6"**RUN02"**SWIM02"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 20

 

Cost**	Power	END
18**	Symbiotic Form: Elemental Control, 36-point powers*
28**	1) Amorphous Form: Desolidification (affected by Sonics & Fire), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)*	0
20**	2) Textile Chameleon: Shape Shift (Sight and Touch Groups, Normal Looking Clothing), Imitation, Instant Change (38 Active Points)*	4
18**	3) Symbiotic Viality: LS (Eating Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per Minute; Immunity All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum), Usable By Other (+1/4) (36 Active Points)*	4
19**	4) Increased Resilience: FF (15 PD/15 ED), Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points)*	4
22**	5) Body Forming: Clinging (75 STR), Usable By Other (+1/4) (40 Active Points)*	4
26**	6) Body Elongation: Stretching 7", Usable By Other (+1/4) (44 Active Points)*	4
15**	7) Formed Claws: HKA 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	8) Body Projections: RKA 2d6, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	9) +30 STR, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	10) +10 DEX, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	11) +15 CON, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
11**	12) +15 BODY, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	13) +3 SPD, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	14) +15 REC, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	15) +60 END, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	16) +30 STUN, Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	17) Running 15", Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4
15**	18) Leaping 30", Usable By Other (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power (Cannot Target Self; -1/4)*	4

Powers Cost: 315

 

 

Cost**	Skill
3**	Conversation 14-*
3**	Disguise 12-*
3**	Persuasion 14-*
3**	Seduction 14-*
3**	Stealth 11-*

Skills Cost: 15

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

Val**	Disadvantages
5**	Dependence: Requires Host Body Takes 3d6 Damage (Easy To Obtain, 1 Day)*
10**	Hunted: Former Unwilling Hosts 11- (Less Pow, Harshly Punish)*
10**	Physical Limitation: Limited Manipulation without Host (Infrequently, Greatly Impairing)*
20**	Psychological Limitation: Fear of Being Alone (Common, Total)*
15**	Social Limitation: Parasitic Creature (Frequently, Major)*
20**	Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Sonics (Common)*
20**	Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Fire (Common)*

Disadvantage Points: 100

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 50

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

This character still needs 50 Disadvantage Points to be square.

 

The Desolid was bought to represent the Symbiote's Amorphous Form and ability to merge with a Host.

Most of the Powers were bought with Useable on Others along with the Pow Lim (Cannot Target Self) to reinforce the Symbiote's dependence on the host.

 

According to the Useable on Others entry the target can choose not to receive the powers. This is where the Symbiote's 25 PRE and PRE-based Skills come into play.

 

Again as a GM, I would caution you against allowing such a player character unless you have the best player ever and are prepared for the worst case scenario (such as this character attaching itself to Grond). I think that depriving the Symbiote of Mind Control and requiring the Persuasion to be Role-Played may be enough to balance this, but it will still be tricky.

 

Best of Luck, Hope this helps...

Thanks, I like that. I don't thinnk he's trying to undermine me though, but I will take your advice.

[OddHat]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Both of these concepts are tricky and potentially over-powered if built to the full potential of their special effects. The Symbiote is actually worse, as his ability will push the abilities of another player up by several levels, which will either require you to rule that Aided powers can't surpass campaign limits or accept that the team Brick will effectively be twie as powerful as you'd planned.

 

The Void is easier to do, but still requires special care and can be absurdly unbalanced. Give him a compound power including FF and KB resistance, and enough levels in DCV to hit your campaign limit, with the special effect being that he is Desolid; None of those will work versus ADSO attacks. Now all of his other powers no longer need Affects Solid World. He can also buy Desolid as a 0 End power, maybe in a MP with the above. Add Life Support, then a massive VPP. He can use this for senses, teleport, etc.

 

I'd work out exactly what campaign power limits I wanted, then tell him what I'd decided. If his characters don't fit those limits, he'll have to adjust.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

I take it your player is not familiar enough with the game system to design their own character?

 

Coming up with a concept that is practically all - powerful is easy. Design that is the trick...

 

With the dimensional character, if he exists across all dimensions he is going to have a real perception problem. I'd have a physical and/or psychological limitation that he has to make some sort of EGO roll to keep focussed on 'this' dimension - otherwise he just wanders off and does something apparently nonsensical, and will need to make PER rolls for even the most obvious things. Don't forget that designing a character involves designing the flaws too...

 

The symbiote...hmmm. Never likes this sort of thing as a concept, but how about using a mental transformation to change the 'possessed' character to his current mind, coupled with a...dunno,maybe dimensional travel to the 'mental realm' to simulate disappearing into their brain/body (the way we used to simulate the net). Limitation is that, becasue he is effectively an observer and it is not strictly his brain, he loses half the experience that he gained while in that body when he leaves it. In addition he is vulnerable to mental attacks (2x effect) when possessing another body as he has to keep mental channels open. He has a dependence on possessing another: he can not live long in his natural form.

 

I reckon those sorts of disadvantages will tell you whether you have a creative and interesting role player or a power gamer, and it gives you enough ways to balance the potentially devastating power if he does agree to play it...

[OddHat]

Re: Dimensional Hole and Symbiote

 

Really they are both concepts that work fine in a comic and not at all in a game.