Guest bblackmoor Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Aberrant really had a sensible policy re: this.[/Quote] Ech. I disagree. Having these people on-staff can make the difference between needing N carrier battle groups on hand to be ready to squelch trouble in any part of the world' date=' or being able to get by on N-1 carrier battle groups.[/quote'] What you are not pausing to consider -- but what would be uppermost on the mind of anyone considering the path you suggest -- is that a battle tank can be controlled. A destroyer can be controlled. Any item of mere technology can be controlled, by controlling the mere human weilding it. Test these humans extensively before handing them these powerful weapons, and continue to test them. If the human weilding a weapon becomes problematic, simply replace the human. Now consider the situation if that weapon was self-aware. Consider what would happen to a main battle tank that woke up one day and declared that it now knew right from wrong, that it no longer needed ammunition nor human beings to operate and maintain it, and that it would cooperate with your (completely benign) plans for world domination... for now. Such a thing must be destroyed. It is simply too dangerous to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Well, yeah, but that says nothing at all about how the western world and other non-totalitarian countries will act. And frankly, such abusive behavior is going to bite the totalitarians on their asses, because it ups the likelihood that either a newly erupted nova is going to flee the country or whack the dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Whitewings -- Actually, most of the /successful/ dictators of history -- and even a lot of the dumbasses -- understood the concept of "Pay your Praetorian Guard, pay them lots, and pay them on time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans bblackmoor -- How many thousands of people will develop superpowers on Earth? How many dozens will I need? I can afford to pick and choose. Furthermore, and writing from the American viewpoint as that's where I live, I might point out that according to the last census, approximately 15 million people -- one-tenth of our adult population -- were military veterans under retirement age. Statistically speaking, I'm going to get a lot of superpeople 'popping' that I've *already* "tested", and that already have military service records. Hell, given that 2.5 million people are currently on active, reserve, or National Guard duty, I'm going to be getting at least a few 'eruptions' in the ranks, let alone among the retirees. Not to mention, of course, the fact that the average military planner is *not* a paranoid psychopath, reams of bad fiction to the contrary. Edit -- and 'plans for world domination'? If I was running the US military and Eruption Day happened, my nova recruitment programs would be for something a little less ambitious -- such as, oh, 'be ready to defend the national security interests of the United States'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewings Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Actually' date=' most of the /successful/ dictators of history -- and even a lot of the dumbasses -- understood the concept of "Pay your Praetorian Guard, pay them lots, and pay them on time."[/quote']That's true, but the Praetorian Guard is made up of normal humans, lacking the power to challenge you prior to becoming Praetorians. Note how dictators generally respond to potential threats to their reign even when the threats are purely imaginary; how will most of them react to a potential threat on the level of Colossus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Actually' date=' most of the /successful/ dictators of history -- and even a lot of the dumbasses -- understood the concept of "Pay your Praetorian Guard, pay them lots, and pay them on time."[/quote'] A few have discovered the foolishness of allowing their servants to be more powerful than they are. In revolts of Janissaries, for example, four Sultans lost their lives and at least four were dethroned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans So, bblackmoor, have you ever considered that what is "controlling" said nova might be the same thing "controlling" any other decent soldier: a sense of duty, patriotism, comradery?? By your own logic, a tank would pose a "threat that needs to be destroyed" on only a slightly smaller scale, seeing as it already has an independent mind, or rather, four: those of the crew of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans A few have discovered the foolishness of allowing their servants to be more powerful than they are. In revolts of Janissaries' date=' for example, four Sultans lost their lives and at least four were dethroned.[/quote'] The smart dictators have learned to have multiple units of Praetorians and keep playing them off against each other. For three sterling examples, see Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and Hussein-era Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans So, bblackmoor, have you ever considered that what is "controlling" said nova might be the same thing "controlling" any other decent soldier: a sense of duty, patriotism, comradery?? By your own logic, a tank would pose a "threat that needs to be destroyed" on only a slightly smaller scale, seeing as it already has an independent mind, or rather, four: those of the crew of the tank. To clarify further -- a weapon suddenly becoming sentient is potentially dangerous not because it's sentient, but because you have absolutely no idea what the hell it's thinking. It's a completely alien life form, one you have no experience with. A superpowered human being, OTOH -- is still a human being. They are still people, and will mostly think people things and respond to people motivations. And therefore, they will not start out in the category of 'horrible alien thing -- kill it now!' Unless, of course, the guy was a psychopath *before* he was a superbeing, in which case, congrats, you now have a supervillain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans That's true' date=' but the Praetorian Guard is made up of normal humans, lacking the power to challenge you prior to becoming Praetorians. Note how dictators generally respond to potential threats to their reign even when the threats are purely imaginary; how will most of them react to a potential threat on the level of Colossus.[/quote'] I don't doubt that many will respond that way. However, it will probably be those tyrannies which have essentially one figure at the top, as those have the most to fear. Something along the lines of China, however, would be less threatened ( no one individual a nova would have to knock off to take over, as the tyranny is more institutional ), and IMHO, more likely to try the carrot before going for the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Yeah. There's a difference between 'What is Kim Jong 'Crazy Fuckhead' Il" going to do, and "What is Vladimir Putin going to do?", and "What is the Chinese Politburo going to do?". Different levels of competence (and sanity), different approaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans ... and 'plans for world domination'? If I was running the US military and Eruption Day happened' date=' my nova recruitment programs would be for something a little less ambitious -- such as, oh, 'be ready to defend the national security interests of the United States'.[/quote'] Potayto, potahto. We have military bases in over 100 countries. Our national interests are pretty expansive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans By your own logic' date=' a tank would pose a "threat that needs to be destroyed" on only a slightly smaller scale, seeing as it already has an independent mind, or rather, four: those of the crew of the tank.[/quote'] That's been covered. Humans are fragile and easily replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans It can't exactly be called 'world conquest' when your 'military bases in 100 countries' are paying the home country rent for the use of the land. (Seriously, the reason we have bases in a lot of places is because lots of countries like having the US Military Insurance Plan -- aka "I am a hell of a lot likely to get invaded by my hostile neighbor if I'm hosting American troops on my soil, as, well, they're lots bigger than him.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans That's been covered. Humans are fragile and easily replaced. We can psych-test people to where we can trust them enough to leave them alone with the keys to nuclear missile silos. I assume we can also psych-test superpowerd people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Dumb supervillain = Dictator's highly-compensated bodyguard Smart supervillain = Dictator's replacement A supertyrant is a uniquely deadly threat to global security. They are extremely hard to assassinate by conventional means, may in fact leverage their super-genius intellect to build WMD or their super-power to acquire them by force, and are far more likely than more vulnerable mundane dictators to follow through on any threats they make to their many enemies. the deadliest type of supertyrant is a)very smart, b)very powerful, and c) fairly charismatic. they will have the most advanced weapons technology, their own personal elite guard, and perhaps a small army(10-100 or so) of superhuman followers. Dealing with this sort of threat may actually involve "playing defense" for a while, until some kind of vulnerability is exposed, an opportunity presents itself, or there's no other choice but to confront evil at its source. Such an assault might involve a large force of supers, supplemented by a horde of elite agents/special forces troops, and supported by a massive assemblage of military ordnance. It would be considered a major war. Dr. Destroyer is the prime example of such a tyrant in the CU(except he doesn't really rule a country per se--if he did, that would be really really bad.) Dr.Doom from Marvel comics, Zod(from recent storylines) from DC are others. Those guys make national security advisors age prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans On the othe hand DC NSA have superman Marvel have Thor CU has ......... Dead man walking, sorry Seeker For every Villain thers a Hero that there equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans uh, thor's dead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Permit me to disbelieve that. Tell me again in 3 months an i might believe you. Hes a god hes Imortal and hes popular. Dead, how the young are easily decievied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans His title's been cancelled(apparently)--I don't think they ever cancelled his title before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans Cancelled .... wow. Really? Didnt know things were so bad for Thor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans I suspect they'll bring him back, but it may well be in a different way...kind of like a Kyle Rayner kind of thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans But don't worry, you'll be able to read about the adventures of Kid Thor in Young Avengers soon. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans If we go with an "official product" look, i.e. limited color, I would suggest the following for Blackstone's Metahumans. The text under the pic I have condensed heavily, but as usual, I would be happy to take suggestions on where to move things around (the suggestions have been great thus far). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Jane's Superhumans The new format is definitely cleaner. I'll have to try writing up a few of the characters from my campaign, although I don't have the graphics skill to make pages like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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