Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

[Steve Long]

As you probably already know, we took Dark Champions Battlegrounds off the 2005 schedule because the Battlegrounds books have generally had lackluster sales. Nevertheless, I still hope someday to do DCB. For fun tonight I'm fiddling around with some ideas, and I figured I'd solicit peoples' opinions.

 

My currently plan would be to make the book something similar to FHB, in that it would have three main scenarios, followed by a section of a dozen or so lesser locations/scenarios. It's the main scenarios I'm interested in at this point; we can talk about the other stuff later.

 

One of the main scenarios will definitely be a reworking of Harpcor Towers, the main adventure from the old DC. It's the scenario I've run the most in my career as a GM, and it'll be nice to revisit it. Lots of re-use potential.

 

The second scenario I pretty much expect will involve a Boeing 747. It could be used for in-flight hijacking scenarios, on-the-ground hostage situations, police training exercises, all kinds of cool stuff. With all those plane movies out there (e.g., Executive Decision, Air Force One), there are sure to be lots of uses for a good set of plane maps.

 

The third main scenario I haven't decided on yet, and that's what I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on. Ideally it should be a location that a GM could use repeatedly in his games, and one that requires some major description. Some possibilities include:

 

1. A hospital. I have a great hospital scenario in mind, and the Web is lousy with detailed hospital floorplans I can draw on for inspiration. Not sure how much repeat usage it might see, though.

 

2. A cruise ship. Again, not sure about repeat usage.

 

3. A large hotel, probably a relatively luxurious one like a Hyatt. I can see more repeat usage here, but as a tall building this is probably too similar to Harpcor Towers. Possibly I could spread it out, maybe even connect it with a convention center, but somehow that doesn't seem as cool. OTOH, since the upper floors of a hotel would all be pretty much identical, we could get away with one map for all of them, focus on the outlying/attached buildings, and have our cake while still eatin' it.

 

4. A luxury combat ranch. Read about one of these a few months ago. As with the hospital, I've got a great scenario idea, but repeat usage concerns me.

 

5. A casino. Definitely useful for those James Bond-style espionage scenarios. Maybe could be connected with the luxury hotel.

 

6. A museum. Again, I see some concern about repeat usage, though probably less than with a hospital, combat ranch, or cruise ship.

 

 

Note that I'm excluding smaller locations (e.g., apartment, nightclub, bar, warehouse) because those would go in the "lesser locations" section. What I'm looking for here are big locations suitable for a major scenario.

 

I'm also excluding ideas already covered in CB, such as a mall or amusement park.

 

So, what ideas and suggestions do you have?

[KA.]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I am glad to see that this is even being considered.

 

As for the ideas, I like the hospital a lot, because it could be useful for a campaign, even after the scenario was used. A lot of NPC Doctors, Surgeons, Nurses, could provide Contacts, DNPC's, etc.

 

The only other idea that I think might match or exceed this is Police Headquarters.

 

It has a lot of cross-subgenre appeal.

 

For Vigilante Crimefighting it can be a source of Contacts, a place to sneak into to examine files, a place where you end up being questioned, the list goes on.

 

For an actual Law Enforcement Campaign, it would provide the home base for your characters, a huge source of DNPC's, forensics labs, etc.

 

For Caper Campaigns, this could be the place that you need to plant bugs in to find out about security arrangements for your targets.

 

You get the idea.

 

I can't think of a single structure that is more likely to come up in a Dark Champions game than this.

 

KA.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I think each map should have a tie to the main scenario, 1-2 slightly-detailed alternate scenarios (1-2 pages each), and at least 5 plot seeds. If you have trouble coming up with that many uses, the map probably doesn't have the re-useability to make it worth the while.

Also, each of the locations should feature either a mini-scenario for a different genre (ie. Champions), or discuss how the scenario could be retro-fitted for Champions. Gotta feed your 800 pound gorilla.

 

Another idea. Look at your bibliography for DC. Make a list of all of the fight locations in each story. Take the top 10-15 repeat locations and get your list from that.

 

Also: Try to make combat and strategy suggestions based on the things that make each location unique. For instance, a hosiptal seting should have ideas for things that can be done with drugs and surgical instruments, as well as how trained medical personnel on the scene could enhance survivability. On a cruise ship, make sure a section includes what the crew does when someone falls overboard and include references to the rules for drowning and immersion in ice cold water. Talk about the security that protects sensitive areas of the ship. Perhaps the scenario could have a section that takes place during a storm with rules about being swept overboard. Just brainstorming.

 

Keith "2¢" Curtis

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Well, how about a sports stadium? That's a classic for terrorist plots, assassination attempts etc. Make it changeable for multiple sports, like track and field that might draw in international competitors and involve defection scenarios; or rock concerts with the potential for enraged or panicked crowds. Include the lockers, access and utility tunnels for chase scenes and secluded places to conduct shady deals.

[OddHat]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I'd like to see the Casino-Hotel, and maybe a convention center as well. There are all kinds of adventures where you end up confronting the bad guys in a hotel, and a casino is great for International Intrigue or Vegas adventures. The convention center will work for the inevitable Battle at Gen Con game.

[Rapier]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

As much as I hate to say it, what is more "take over the worldish" that taking congress hostage?

 

Maybe a sub-arc of some such that involves the senate chamber?

 

Or...to drag UNTIL into it...the UN chamber [of whatver that large stadium chamber is called].

 

A sports stadium would be fun, but not sure about the resuability.

 

For resubality, my first thought was mall, but that's been done already. I would think that one 'House of Parliment' would be much like another, be it UN, Congress. House of Lords etc.

 

Or, especially for DC, in this day and age...ever thought about an airport? LAX, ORD, LaGuardia, JFK should give some juicy bits for storytelling...most especially if one included baggage handling, tarmacs etc.

 

I can think of half a dozen sub-arcs off the top of my head for a good airport (or even...oh whats the word...forgive me...one can't attend bowling without drinking a few beers...the customs area of a sea port).

[Eosin]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I think Casino/Hotel would be the best and with the most re-use potential. The airplane seems sorta pale in comparison.

 

 

PS - I am an RN and have worked in 6-8 hospitals if you need help. I am also well versed in mapping (not as good as Keith "I draw Eosin's maps also" Curtis but I could give him something that he could make sense of).

[Trencher]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

A factory.

A gothic church.

A generic mom and pop store.

A large sewer complex.

A dingy apartment.

A discotheque.

[Steve Long]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Thanx for the suggestions, folx!

 

Please remember, at this stage I'm mostly looking for location suggestions for one of the major scenarios. Ideas for smaller locations and for how the overall product should be written/developed can wait until later.

[Edsel]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Make a combo Hotel/Casino. You cover two options that way. Besides these things seem to be becoming more common across the country. It used to be only Las Vegas and Atlantic City were the big cities for this sort of thing but more local and state government seem to be allowing gambling now as a way to pull in extra tax money. Depending on how you put it together the Casino portion could be easily modified by a GM to simulate an illegal Card Shark gambling den or the like. If you base your DC games on action movies then hotels and casinos are places that are going to get shot-up a lot.

[Rapier]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Make a combo Hotel/Casino. You cover two options that way. Besides these things seem to be becoming more common across the country. It used to be only Las Vegas and Atlantic City were the big cities for this sort of thing but more local and state government seem to be allowing gambling now as a way to pull in extra tax money. Depending on how you put it together the Casino portion could be easily modified by a GM to simulate an illegal Card Shark gambling den or the like. If you base your DC games on action movies then hotels and casinos are places that are going to get shot-up a lot.

Here in Illinois gambling is still relegated (for the most part, this is approaching change...but until I actually SEE it happen...) to the rivers. A hotel/casino with semi-attached riverboat...WHAT FUN!

 

"You miss Armadillo with your Fusion Blast RKA and sever the lines holding the riverboat to the pier...I hope y'all can swim!"

[Steve Long]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

The hotel-casino is definitely becoming a more attractive idea the more I think about it. The only nuisance of it is that I can't put such a building in Hudson City, since gambling isn't legal there (and isn't likely to ever be, for reasons explained in the book;)). Sure, I could call it a "test project" or some such nonsense, but it just doesn't ring true. I shall have to cogitate some more.

 

Police station's a good idea, but I think I can make it one of the lesser locations rather than the focus of the major scenario.

[OddHat]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

The hotel-casino is definitely becoming a more attractive idea the more I think about it. The only nuisance of it is that I can't put such a building in Hudson City' date=' since gambling isn't legal there (and isn't likely to ever be, for reasons explained in the book;)). Sure, I could call it a "test project" or some such nonsense, but it just doesn't ring true. I shall have to cogitate some more. [/quote']

 

Set that scenario in Atlantic City, and add a bus line tour or PATCO / NJ Transit Train to get people there faster. The casinos are always looking for ways to get retirees to come to AC and spend some cash; a decade ago they were giving seniors free transportation from and to South Jersey Jewish Community Centers, a free meal, and $10 in quarters. Quite a few conventions used to be held in AC as well; shouldn't be that hard to get the players there.

[OddHat]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

One more thought: An illegal casino would work as well. The Philadelphia Convention Center has a half dozen whore houses within walking distance, most of them openly advertised in free weekly papers. The cops, for whatever reason, turn a blind eye. One of the open secrets in Tokyo is that while it is illegal to gamble in a pachinko parlor, many will have a little office in the back or in a nearby building where you can exchange the balls you've won for cash.

 

So, put down a casino attached to the Hudson City Convention Center. Pachinko Parlor style, the owners claim that customers are just playing for tokens, which they can exchange for cute stuffed toys and other prizes (think Dave & Busters). However, it's an open secret that if you take your tokens to a room at the back, you can "sell them" back to the casino for cash, and there's a hidden floor in the casino where real high stakes gambling takes place unhindered.

 

If it's not too extreme for the real world, it works fine in a game.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Personally, I'd go with a hotel-casino-convention center. There are just so many possibilities, especially if you tie in organized crime activities, the various types of groups who could have conventions (the porn industry, gun shows, conspiracy theorists, or even those weird nerds with the funny dice), visiting dignitaries (such to any consulates in Hudson City), and so forth. The hotel could be a hub for "unfortunate" activities, serving also as a place to stay for visiting assassins, jewel thieves, and other international criminals.

 

If you want to get around the "gambling is illegal in Hudson City" aspect, you could let it be run by a Native American tribe.

[mattingly]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Rapier took my idea. Put the combo hotel/casino on a cruise ship. Even though Hudson City doesn't support gambling, since it's a port city it could have a ship that docks once each afternoon then sails out to international waters and opens up the casino. That would give you the chance to map out a ship, a hotel, and a casino. Just throw in enough optional bits that the three parts could be used standalone or mix/matched. Plenty of reusability, and also throws in the opportunity for water-based games.

 

I also love the police station idea, and have a few more ideas for smaller maps, but we'll save that for later.

 

My other suggestion would be to limit the book to two major map/adventures, and instead of a third scenario, give us more maps and plot seeds.

[Rapier]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Some of my favouritest supplements are map books. Pages and pages and pages of maps (with descriptions).

 

Airports, airplanes, casinos, police stations, hospitals, zoos, parks, ships, docks, grocery stores, department stores, gas stations, prisons, insane asylums...I want them ALL.

 

I've got a folder where I keep all the maps I've ever made. You can never tell when them pesky players are going to actually want to go INSIDE the Starbucks to do battle.

 

I'm telling you, GMing would be a lot easier if it weren't for the players!

[GamePhil]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Related to the hotel, but you might consider a large apartment complex. There would be differences, such as lacking the large front lobby and possibly being in several buildings. Even heroes got to live somewhere.

 

Rather than being a building, you could have a district: the warehouse district near the docks, a neighborhood of houses in the bad part of town (or anywhere in Hudson City), and so on.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I would love to see such a book. Absolutely. One of the things I would really like to see is the option of purchasing digital versions of the maps (FHB and CB included).

 

I would make this suggestion as well. You have already indicated the poor sales associated with the Battlegrounds books. If you sold them as JPEGs you could eliminate the cost of the book, allow people to print out the maps as they need them, also allow them to print out 1" full scale maps as necessary, or allow them to use them digitally (as I do with Klooge). I recognize there are IP issues associated with this, but that can be addressed in a couple of ways and it isn't all that different than selling HD packs of crunch books (Grimoire, USPD, etc.). Cut out the middle man, provide the material we are all clamoring for in a format that is far more ideal than book form.

 

As for price, I don't know as I'd change it all that much. I'd be much happier if I had spent my money on FHB and gotten a digital version than the print version.

 

So, PDF with all the adventure text and then Hi-Res jpegs of all the maps.

[Savinien]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I like the factory idea. You see factories all over in different DC genre, from Terminator to campy Batman. Some factories can be quite large. Recently, I've found myself interested in large Meat Processing Centers.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

The Second Scenario needs Maps, Basic floor plans for an international airport, and Security Response Levels. (When the Airport calls in Security, Police, Counter Terrorism Unit, etc…)

 

Disaster Response – Fire, Ambulance, and Tower Procedures

 

Hostage Negotiators/Interrogators –

 

Security Set Up – Metal/Chemical/etc… Detectors –

 

Drug Dogs –

 

Common Hazards of Airports – Pick Pockets, Con Artists, Hare Krishni, etc…

 

The Third Scenario – Hotel/Casino/Restaurant/Convention Center/Shopping Mall/Car Rental Agency/Museum/etc… (VIVA Las Vegas, Reno, Casablanca, Riviera)

 

Could use a Cruise Ship example

 

Digital HERO - Adventures (Dark Champions; Warehouses, Dockyards, Buisness Districts, City Centers, High Security Labs, Banks, etc... Alleys, Streets, Utility/Sewage Tunnel etc...)

 

Cheers

 

QM

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

You could use the hotel/casino as a "2-for-1" setting.

 

90% could be the same if it's a luxury hotel or casino. Do up one set of maps, info for that. The other 10%, do up two sets - one if it's a casino, the other if it's a normal hotel.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

Howabout a Corrections Facility?

[tancred]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

What Mattingly said.

 

Just watched the movie Deep Rising this weekend. That would be a good plotline for the cruise ship (monsters invade the ship just before the hijackers arrive), as would Ocean's Eleven at sea.

 

Clearly, the hotel/casino/convention center would be the most re-usable. But the cruise ship, airport, and hospital all strike me as locations I would use in DC, Star Hero, and just about any other modern game I run.

I'd probably even be able to use them in my current post-apocalyptic game.

[Steve Long]

Re: Thinking About DARK CHAMPIONS BATTLEGROUNDS

 

I'd probably even be able to use them in my current post-apocalyptic game.

 

I'd say PA lets you use just about anything, depending on your take on it. Just ruin to taste, serve hot with a tasteful garnish of mutants, and voila!