Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

[Cardinal]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

/devil's advocate still on

 

But without the NND, less damage gets through

 

/devil's advocate off

 

If you don't hit, no damage gets through.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Yeah' date=' the reason Viperia could do it is because she's "attacking" her own hex, at DCV 3. The Champions own hit rolls were bad enough as is, they couldn't afford to eat the extra OCV penalty.[/quote']Point of order: attacking your own hex or an adjacent hex is at zero DCV (IDHMBIFOM, so I don't have a page cite handy).

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

The Thread Ressurector Strikes!!! Mwahahahahah..........

 

So, I got around to running Champions vs. Viperia.

 

*****************************************

 

Battle Report: Champions vs. Viperia

 

Headline: Viperia rocks the Champions like a hurricane!

 

Arena: The “Rosies†map.

 

Start: Viperia has been sent by VIPER to test her fighting skills against the Champions, so she flew into MC near Rosies and started making threatening supervillain noises, although she has not actually hurt anyone, caused property damage, or displayed her powers. The Champions came to the scene, and have been unable to talk her into leaving peacefully. Viperia is in the middle of the intersection, with the Champions surrounding her, 4†away on hexsides (I – N – S – D – W). Everyone is ready for a battle, so CSLs have been set. This is the first time the sides have met, so they are unaware of each others’ specific capabilities. Witchcraft has her VPP set to Spell of Vitality (+40 END, +5 REC). Everyone is on the ground.

 

Note: This battle was played using basic combat rules only, no optional rules. This means, among other things, there is no: Rapid Fire, Sweep, Dive For Cover, Multiple Attackers, Spreading, or Knockback (yes, Knockback is an optional rule).

 

V = Viperia

D = Defender

I = Ironclad

S = Sapphire

W= Witchcraft

N = Nighthawk

 

Segment 12

• V looks around her, judging the Champions by their appearance. “Brick, stealthy guy, blaster, battlesuit, mage. Sometimes magic stings – better take her out first.†V Half-Runs behind W and uses Breath of the Hurricane. She manages to pick a pattern that will cover all the Champions except I. With her levels in DCV she is 9/12. 9 vs. 0 (adjacent hex DCV is 0) 17-/r15 hit.

 W 46S/13B takes 29 Stun, is Stunned

 D 35S/10B takes 15 Stun

 S 26S/8B takes 2 Stun

 N 26S/8B takes 10 Stun

• N Half-Swings next to V and Holds for Coordination.

• D Half-Flys 4†from V and Holds for Coordination.

• S Half-Flys 4†from V and Holds for Coordination.

• I Half-Leaps next to V. For a 6†leap he needs to hit a 5 DCV. 7 vs. 5 13-/r10 to hit the hex, and Holds for Coordination.

• W Recovers from being Stunned.

• Teamwork rolls for Coordination: D 14-/r16 fail; S 14-/r10 succeed; I 13-/r8 succeed; N 14-/r14 succeed. S, I, and N’s damage (if any) will be added together to determine if V is Stunned.

• S uses Power Bolt I. 8/8 8 vs. 12 7-/r13 miss.

• I Punches. With all HTH levels in OCV he is 11/7. 11 vs. 12 10-/r13 miss.

• N Punches with his Billy Club. With his level in OCV he is 9/10. 9 vs. 12 8-/r10 miss.

• D uses Electric Blast. With Weapons Array levels in OCV he is 10/8. 10 vs. 12 9-/r9 hit.

 V 44S/12B takes 12 Stun. “Gotcha! All right team, let’s take her down before she hurts any innocents!â€

 

Post Segment 12

• Recoveries. N is down 2 Stun, D is down 7 Stun, W is down 21 Stun.

 

Segment 1

• No actions.

 

Segment 2

• V “That was fun! More!†She Half-Runs behind W, picks a pattern that covers all of the Champions except D, and Hurricanes. 9/12 9 vs. 0 17-/r13 hit.

 W 49S/14B takes 32 Stun, is KO’d to once a minute Recoveries and is out of the fight

 N 49S/14B takes 33 Stun, is KO’d to 0 Stun and every Phase Recoveries

 I 43S/12B takes 15 Stun

 S 37S/10B takes 13 Stun

• N was KO’d this Segment and so does not Recover. (5ER, p. 411)

• S notes the effect that D’s Electric Blast had on V, sees no force field, and so decides to use her Stun Bolt. She Half-Flys 4†from V and Stun Bolts. 8/8 8 vs. 12 7-/r14 miss.

 

Segment 3

• V “More! More!†She Half-Runs behind I, picks a pattern that covers all of the remaining Champions, and Hurricanes. 9/12 9 vs. 0 17-/r9 hit.

 I 55S/16B takes 27 Stun, is down 42 Stun total

 N 49S/14B (Stun is doubled to 98 since he is KO’d) takes 82 Stun, is KO’d to -82 Stun and is out of the fight

 D 43S/12B takes 23 Stun, is down 30 Stun total

 S 37S/10B takes 13 Stun, is down 26 Stun total

• D Half-Flys 4†from V and Electric Blasts. 10/8 10 vs. 12 9-/r9 hit.

 V 45S/13B takes 13 Stun

• I Half-Runs next to V and Punches. 11/7 11 vs. 12 10-/r9 hit.

 V 46S/13B takes 14 Stun, is down 27 Stun total

 

Segment 4

• S Half-Flys 4†from V and Stun Bolts. 8/8 8 vs. 12 7-/r5 hit.

 V 19S takes 19 Stun, is down 46 Stun total

 

Segment 5

• V “Nasty, nasty, hurtful Heroes. Take that!!!†She Half-Runs behind I, picks a pattern that covers I and D, and Hurricanes. 9/12 9 vs. 0 17-/r11 hit.

 I 53S/16B takes 25 Stun, is KO’d to -2 Stun and every Phase Recoveries

 D 41S/12B takes 21 Stun, is KO’d to -16 Stun and Post-Segment 12 Recoveries and is out of the fight

• I was KO’d this Segment and so does not Recover.

 

Segment 6

• V “Nighty night, Heroes.†She Half-Runs behind S, picks a pattern that covers S and I, and Hurricanes. 9/12 9 vs. 0 17-/r13 hit.

 S 48S/11B takes 24 Stun, is KO’d to -15 Stun and Post-Segment Recoveries and is out of the fight

 I 38S/9B (Stun is doubled to 72 since he is KO’d) takes 44 Stun, is KO’d to -46 Stun and is out of the fight

 

Post-Combat: Viperia gazes at the prone figures of the Champions, blows on her fingernails, and surveys the property damage she caused with her Hurricane breath. Daddy should be pleased. She flies off to report…

 

Analysis: It was interesting going back to just the basic combat rules. Some of this hurt the Champions (Dive For Cover, Multiple Attackers), and some hurt Viperia (Sweep, Knockback). The Cone AE EB is very effective against multiple opponents; with Knockback, the double-KB Hurricane would have scattered the Champions like leaves.

 

There was another choice on Segment 3 after V attacked; D, I and S could have Held and Coordinated their attack on Segment 4. This would have allowed V time to Dodge, but she might not have – after all, she let 4 Champions line her up on Segment 12, and they didn’t do much. Assuming she didn’t Dodge, and all three Teamwork rolls were made (two at 14-, one at 13-), then the three above-average damage rolls would have Sunned Viperia. Even given all that, V Recovers on Segment 5 and could Abort to a Dodge before the Champions could launch any more attacks (yes, you can Abort the same Segment you recover from being Stunned 5ER, p. 411). The Champions could launch 3 attacks before V’s next Hurricane.

[lemming]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Not entirely sure that no Knockback hurt Viperia that much. After all if they had been scattered by the first Hurricane, she would of had a more difficult time getting them all in it. And of course, no Dive for Cover really hurt the Champions in this case. Anyway not bad.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Not entirely sure that no Knockback hurt Viperia that much. After all if they had been scattered by the first Hurricane' date=' she would of had a more difficult time getting them all in it. And of course, no Dive for Cover really hurt the Champions in this case.[/quote']It's true that she'd have a harder time getting multiple targets in the Hurricane, but then again, the Champions would be so scattered that they'd have a hard time half-moving and attacking - they'd be so far out of range, she could deal with one at a time. Plus, the knockback damage adds up - particularly if the target is KO'd by the attack and they take 2XStun from the KB.

 

No DFC certainly hurts the Champions... but if Sweep is added as well, Viperia Sweeps her Hurricane

 

Anyway not bad.

Thanks! I may run it again some time with all the optional rules in and see how it goes.

 

Question for GMs: Do you allow Dive For Cover against non-AE attacks?

[OddHat]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Question for GMs: Do you allow Dive For Cover against non-AE attacks?

 

It's legal, so yes.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Currently I allow it -- currently. I don't like some of the effects of allowing it, though, and there's a good chance I'm going to try and work out a balancing factor.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

I think it's too effective - a character with 23 Dex has a 90+% chance of avoiding *any* non-AE attack. Two-on-one or better? Just have the attacked character DFC and have the other attack. Now, I have no problem with the concept of one trying not to get hit and the other one attacking, but it just seems too effective.

[lemming]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

Question for GMs: Do you allow Dive For Cover against non-AE attacks?

I don't. I let someone dodge with the effect of doing a DFC, so the attacker still gets to roll to hit. I also allow haymakers to forgo the haymaker damage and just attack at that point if they want as well.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

suggestion: what about permitting DFC as a variant of dodge which places you however many hexes you dive away to? Instead of automatically avoiding attack, instead you simply add +3DCV(for a total of 6DCV, instead of 3) for the purposes of determining whether the attack hits you. So, sometimes the attack's effect will be avoided, but not always.

[lemming]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

suggestion: what about permitting DFC as a variant of dodge which places you however many hexes you dive away to? Instead of automatically avoiding attack' date=' instead you simply add +3DCV(for a total of 6DCV, instead of 3) for the purposes of determining whether the attack hits you. So, sometimes the attack's effect will be avoided, but not always.[/quote']

A clearer way of saying it.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

suggestion: what about permitting DFC as a variant of dodge which places you however many hexes you dive away to? Instead of automatically avoiding attack' date=' instead you simply add +3DCV(for a total of 6DCV, instead of 3) for the purposes of determining whether the attack hits you. So, sometimes the attack's effect will be avoided, but not always.[/quote']

 

Not a bad idea. I'll have to bounce this one around for a bit; right now half my brain is saying it's still too good and the other half is saying it's not good enough...

[Lupus]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

I don't allow it to result in an automatic miss - that's just gameyness.

 

I do allow it to take someone behind cover.

[Vondy]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

 

She's a scary opponent, but she's not a Gravitar, let alone a Destroyer. On the other hand, give her a good VIPER team as backkup, and she becomes a whole different problem.

 

When I tested her, she took Gravitar 3 falls in 4.

[CBikle]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

I don't allow it to result in an automatic miss - that's just gameyness.

 

I do allow it to take someone behind cover.

 

I feel the same way. I allow it because it's legal, but an annoyed part of me wants to say that the attack automatically hits just for metagaming.

[JamesG]

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions??

 

I feel the same way. I allow it because it's legal' date=' but an annoyed part of me wants to say that the attack automatically hits just for metagaming.[/quote']

 

I don't know, "hitting the dirt" to avoid enemy fire seems a pretty in genre action to me. I think the penalties for being prone are enough of a drawback to prevent overuse of the tactic. And remember, you can't use Breakfall to avoid going prone after a DFC (TheEmerged was incorrectly allowing Nighthawk to do this in his combat example). You can of course use Breakfall to stand as a zero phase action when your next phase comes up, but the Diver is prone until then.

 

Basically, I've rarely seen players DFC to avoid non-AoE attacks, they generally Dodge.