Seeking a little gming advice

[JohnTaber]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

Hi K: Others have sort of mentioned this...and it sounds like this comment is a bit after the fact...but I wanted to let you know what I do.

 

When I start a new campaign of ANY genre I have an entire play session where everyone works on characters. It works like this:

* Before the session starts I tell everyone to come with several ideas. I give them only VERY high level info at this point. In most case I give them a one sentence description of the new campaign.

* At the start of the session I describe the campaign in detail. I talk about the world, the government, the PC's role, etc. I also go into depth about the feel I want. "The PC are galactic good guys."

* After this I answer questions from the PC. These can be anything from points to campaign questions.

* The PC then start throwing out ideas. If two PC overlap they work it out. "I want a fire throwing guy." "I want a fire throwing guy too!" "Wanna be brothers or do you want to change your ideas?"

 

I have had the same core group of 3 or 4 players for 20 years. I still have this issue and these session really help. In fact the players love these sessions now that I started having them about 5 or 6 years ago. I've also found that I end up fleshing out my world in these sessions. "Why are mentalist hated? Can I be a hidden one? Maybe in a league of freedom fighters?" It works great.

 

Good luck!

[casualplayer]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I think the comics that your players are familiar with are forewarning of what kind of characters they would make. Stormwatch was super-powered UN peacekeepers. Without getting a kill sanction though ahead of time, taking a life would put any member in a world of hurt. Few field members had the juice to authorize themselves. The Authority started out as self appointed fighters in a War on Superterrorists, and they used battlefield methods. Later they became Superterrorists themselves and I have no idea why someone hasn't killed or captured them. Supreme Power isn't a bad example, unless you are offended by someone showing how badly Batman would be outclassed in a powered environment. If Zarda/Power Princess doesn't see repercussions for her actions, The Authority would be glad to have her.

 

What about movies or TV that all of your players might have seen? You sound like you want to run The Incredibles and they want to play Robocop. Your players have a street-level, local hero power set and dark or gray backgrounds. Did you forget to mention that their costumes should include bright, primary colors?

 

You can always lead by example. If their adventures keep getting bumped off the front page of the papers by Captain Whitebread, they may get the point. If a PRIMUS agent visits early in game to make sure that they are aware of the rules that keep them from being classified as vigilantes instead of heroes, they should understand.

 

I have always made my players aware that it is their responsibility to bring a character that can participate. GMing is too much work to have to exclusively cater to the mercurial needs of a group of gamers.

[Agent X]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I think the comics that your players are familiar with are forewarning of what kind of characters they would make. Stormwatch was super-powered UN peacekeepers. Without getting a kill sanction though ahead of time, taking a life would put any member in a world of hurt. Few field members had the juice to authorize themselves. The Authority started out as self appointed fighters in a War on Superterrorists, and they used battlefield methods. Later they became Superterrorists themselves and I have no idea why someone hasn't killed or captured them. Supreme Power isn't a bad example, unless you are offended by someone showing how badly Batman would be outclassed in a powered environment. If Zarda/Power Princess doesn't see repercussions for her actions, The Authority would be glad to have her.

 

What about movies or TV that all of your players might have seen? You sound like you want to run The Incredibles and they want to play Robocop. Your players have a street-level, local hero power set and dark or gray backgrounds. Did you forget to mention that their costumes should include bright, primary colors?

 

You can always lead by example. If their adventures keep getting bumped off the front page of the papers by Captain Whitebread, they may get the point. If a PRIMUS agent visits early in game to make sure that they are aware of the rules that keep them from being classified as vigilantes instead of heroes, they should understand.

 

I have always made my players aware that it is their responsibility to bring a character that can participate. GMing is too much work to have to exclusively cater to the mercurial needs of a group of gamers.

I hadn't really thought of it before, but your post has caused a lightbulb to shine in my head. It seems to me that there would be Primus Contact Teams in the regular Champions Universe who would attempt to establish contact with new supers and get a read on them. I can actually see them handing over a folder full of policy and legal information to them. It would be an implicit, almost explicit, warning that the government will react to what the super does and, likely, an invitation for cooperation. I imagine they would use Sanctioned Heroes to help them make contact for the hard-to-reach new super.

[casualplayer]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

Carrot-popularity, favorable news coverage, best parking spaces.

 

Stick-PRIMUS, with a file on you that says exactly who can whup your hide and their number on speed dial.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I hadn't really thought of it before' date=' but your post has caused a lightbulb to shine in my head. It seems to me that there would be Primus Contact Teams in the regular Champions Universe who would attempt to establish contact with new supers and get a read on them. I can actually see them handing over a folder full of policy and legal information to them. It would be an implicit, almost explicit, warning that the government will react to what the super does and, likely, an invitation for cooperation. I imagine they would use Sanctioned Heroes to help them make contact for the hard-to-reach new super.[/quote']

 

 

That is a really good idea. Really good.

[Katherine]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I had a long talk with my group. As it turns out they were expecting something a bit darker than I had in mind. We've agreed to meet half way. They're going to tone down the dark angst a bit and I'm going to make things a bit less four color than I had planned. I guess "Bronze Age" would be what we're going for.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I had a long talk with my group. As it turns out they were expecting something a bit darker than I had in mind. We've agreed to meet half way. They're going to tone down the dark angst a bit and I'm going to make things a bit less four color than I had planned. I guess "Bronze Age" would be what we're going for.

 

Let us know how it turns out. I'm not a four color fan... but I am a fan of characters that try to do right by others... even if it's a bit gritty. It would be interesting to see if any of these folks begin to enjoy trying to fight the good fight in a tough world. Some positive reinforcement from NPCs and the like when they follow the law and/or don't use excessive force... see where that gets you.

 

Good luck.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

Just as an afterthought ... I utilize campaign sheets for every campaign that I run. About 2-3 weeks before the first game, I post a campaign sheet for my group to examine and ask questions. Each sheet is built basically like the ones in the GM Screen booklet, with details of the campaign, house rules, and any other info the players may need. I usually get a good round of discussion after they read it and some pretty good characters with a lot of meat to them

[Storn]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

Don't feel sorry for me. I've had game running for 18 years with great players. Players who don't "adore" their characters... but want to cooperate and tell a great shared story. The kind of players I dislike... I don't game with them. ONe of the key "red flags" I look for in players are those who obsess about every detail of their character without asking "How will this character fit in the world? What kind of character is best for this campaign? How can we all work together to build characters that work together?"

 

Character creation is a group activity at some level. It is not something totaly controlled by a single person on a fantasy trip.

 

uh... Neil?... I probably do adore a couple of my characters... Vector, Geist, Drake... I have great affection for those guys!

 

Maybe the problem here is all of our slippery definitions of "adore". I really, really like Dorian/Geist... as a person. I would want to have a beer with the guy. But I don't feel obsessed with him. I DO very much want to integrate my PCs with the team, with the world... of course, my battle-cry of late has been: "cant we all just get along?"

 

 

But back to the thread... due to some recent reading of Justice League, watched an ep of the cartoon last night... its four color... but DC universe has been tackling DIRECTLY the responsibilities of power and to kill/or not to kill. Sue Dignby's death and unraveling of Dr. Light's mindwipe about events there... are really harsh stuff.

 

But Neil is right... having villains who get captured go to jail and STAY THERE!!! will go a long way to creating heroes who don't NEED to kill. Even in Neil's pretty gritty RDU, we go a long way to try and keep the combat nonlethal as possible. People die in RDU. Sometimes even premeditated by players... and bet your bottom dollar... the PCs usually have damn good reason. But the deaths are still really, really rare in the supervillain/super hero dept.

 

bystanders? Not so much. Neil just had a revised Eurostar team trash several blocks of Munich to get at UNITE team Cyprus in a terrorist action. Several le Sone suits created a sonic wedge and just blew up eveything for about a mile of city. At least a 1000 dead, probably 3000 wounded.. don't know, we are in the middle of a cliffhanger.

 

But when villains do actions like that? It is pretty hard to justify NOT using lethal force back... and we have, my PC inadvertenly killed one Le Sone suit... and Geist is not going to lose any sleep over it either. Of course, he's got this whole wierd "advocate of the dead" thing going on too...

 

But we also have GRAB in the game, and we haven't used lethal force on them... in fact, they are professional paranormal thieves, not professional warriors. The fact that they are supplying Intel on Eurostar's regurgitation doesn't hurt either.

 

But if you want your players to not be lethal, then the villains really need to have the same gentleman's understanding.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

I had a long talk with my group. As it turns out they were expecting something a bit darker than I had in mind. We've agreed to meet half way. They're going to tone down the dark angst a bit and I'm going to make things a bit less four color than I had planned. I guess "Bronze Age" would be what we're going for.

 

 

 

G'luck, Katherine. Sounds like y'all are on the right path. Be sure and check with the group to see how things are going a few sessions down the line.

[Wanderer]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

As a strong fan of revisionist Authority/Aberrant-like stories, please allow me to give you some advice that might let you make play a bit less grim & gritty while keeping mood and setting comfortable for players that aren’t set for the thoroughly four-color mood.

 

 

First of all, what you are striving for, is to have characters that are like the “good guyâ€, heroic soldiers in action movies. They play fair, they don’t purposefully harm and try to keep innocents safe, and they don’t kill unless it’s necessary or the better option, but killing is not nor should be an absolute taboo. So their killing rates will in large part be determined by how much provocation/temptation you do give them for it.

 

 

Don’t give them opponents that would deserve death, unless you expect them to kill: no serial killers, torturers, terrorists. Not to kill jaywalkers is one thing, sparing everyone the trouble of setting up a capital case for Jeffrey Dahmer or Osama is another.

 

 

Don’t give them opponents that are a clear and present threat to innocents and public safety, UNLESS they have alternative options to vigilantism/killing that are BY FAR better and WORK in the long run: murderous supervillains should stay locked/exiled/rehabilitated for good, the worst white collar criminals (organized crime bosses, corrupt government officials, criminal CEOs) should be liable to be neutralized and punished if their crimes are revealed no matter how many strings they pull and lawyers they deploy. This is a crucial point: if they see that the system doesn’t work, they will set up as judge, jury, and executioner, it’s unavoidable.

 

 

Every opponent that uses lethal force on them (or their loved ones), or tries to mess with their lives in ways worse than death is likely to be returned in kind: plan accordingly and be sure that any NPCs in the setting understands the potential price of trying to kill or thoroughly ruin the lives of supers or their loved ones.

 

 

Supers and the law: even if players agree to tone down gratuitous killing, it does not necessarily follow they will enjoy be supporters of the status quo or The Man. So while they will strive to be heroic crusaders for the common good or a worthy cause, they may well prefer to do it outside the system, or in opposition to the present socio-political status quo. If they violate laws, it is realistic to expect they will get some harassment from law enforcers. But you should strive to ensure that such a response stays proportionate both from the powers that be and the public (if they defuse a severe public menace, they should get positive responses from both, even if they are wanted vigilantes/despised mutants; if they are wanted for property damage, don’t send the Army after them), and be mindful that what the government does to them, they will return in kind: if the authorities use lethal force on them and don’t give quarters, they will likely use lethal force and attempt to overthrow/eliminate same authorities, sooner or later. Same for the public: if you show the populace to be a compact xenophobic, bigoted unreasoning anti-mutant/super mob ready to condone persecution at the behest of the most unlikely politician, expect the supers to turn alienated, violent mutant supremacists.

 

 

If you put supers into battle situations (hordes of superpowered goons, alien/interdimensional invasions, nihilistic genocidal godlike super) creating a severe clear and present threat to nation/mankind/planet/galaxy/reality, they will behave as supersoldiers: they will likely shun from unnecessary killing, but if killing looks like best option to save the day, they will. Plan accordingly.

 

 

Trying to get Iron Age minded players to get Psych Lims enforcing the full-blown Silver Age mindset (such the full Total CvK, or Code of the Hero) will likely ensure a lot of bad blood and be ultimately unsuccessful. Try instead to settle for intermediate or alternative Psych Lims that will still bind the characters to a distinctively (anti)heroic behaviour (no gratuitous killing, looking like a “good guy†fighter): in my experience Psych Lims like Protective of Innocents, Will Fight Fair, Honorable, Wants to Make World A Better Place, Keeps His Word, Will Spare Redeemable Opponents, the milder 5- or 10-points versions of CvK in DC (anything that allow them to kill in order to save a friend or loved one, in self-defence, and the like, without debilitating guilt; don't expect supers to have greater taboos against killing than Joe Average). Stuff that will make characters look like heroes without making killing or turning against the status quo or violating the law absolute taboos.

[Katherine]

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

 

Trying to get Iron Age minded players to get Psych Lims enforcing the full-blown Silver Age mindset (such the full Total CvK, or Code of the Hero) will likely ensure a lot of bad blood and be ultimately unsuccessful. Try instead to settle for intermediate or alternative Psych Lims that will still bind the characters to a distinctively (anti)heroic behavior (no gratuitous killing, looking like a “good guy†fighter): in my experience Psych Lims like Protective of Innocents, Will Fight Fair, Honorable, Wants to Make World A Better Place, Keeps His Word, Will Spare Redeemable Opponents, the milder 5- or 10-points versions of CvK in DC (anything that allow them to kill in order to save a friend or loved one, in self-defense, and the like, without debilitating guilt; don't expect supers to have greater taboos against killing than Joe Average). Stuff that will make characters look like heroes without making killing or turning against the status quo or violating the law absolute taboos.

 

Well, there’s a saying that goes “Compromise is that state in which all parties are equally unhappy†(or something like that). I think that’s what has been reached here. I’m not totally happy with what has been decided, but neither are they. Hopefully it will work out to be mutually enjoyable in the end. We’ve played the whole “dark and angsty†super beings bit quite a bit in our other games. I was looking for something different, running a group of actual full blown superheroes not “powered vigilantes†or “Political activists†(read: Terrorists that believe their own PR). Characters that are trying to be decent, not pop heads like melons and stand up for a moral code. Corny? Maybe a little. Unrealistic? Definitely but it can be fun.