Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

[Sean Waters]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Too many players want a free lunch' date=' and a lot of gravy was written into 5th Ed. They see a Hero Sandwich, and they want to emulate that sandwich but all they can afford is the meat and the bread to start. You have to earn the condiments that bring out the flavor IMO.[/quote']

 

 

I love your use of metaphor.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

regarding using the Hoist skill vs. a power/power advantage.

 

I was looking for a power description.

 

Here's an analogy: Batman and Flash are very good at HTH combat. Batman has a lot of skill with it. Does Flash really need to have any skills to beat someone like Batman in a HTH fight? I'm not suggesting that he can't have some skill levels and even a speedster martial art but those skills are not the core of his abilities.

 

When I asked for non-hoist skill ways of applying STR to a large (and possibly fragile) object I was using the same line of reasoning.

 

HM

[Sean Waters]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

OK, I've suggested adders and Champsguy suggested PD you can apply to objects and several people have suggested not worrying about it.

 

I like my idea best.

 

Mind you I also like the idea of making bricks make a KS: Architecture roll. That one rule would significantly change the game, or at least the character write ups...

Mega Muscle used to be Arnold Prong, a mild mannered structural engineer, until...

[zornwil]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Architect is an amazingly common profession or skill from my experience. Perhaps George Costanza's admiration for the profession is well-founded!

 

I think more likely though people figure if they want to blow buildings up or stop them from getting blown up, Architecture is a good thing to have.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

...and why would you get figured characteristics from tactile telekinesis?

 

Why wouldn't you? I've got +50 Str from "tactile telekinesis". It gives me +10 PD "telekinetic shielding", +10 Recovery "telekinetic reinforcement", and +25 Stun "telekinetic durability". Strength is Strength, whatever you call it.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Oh, and Hoist sucks. You pay like 3 points to get the opportunity to make a roll and (if you roll well), maybe increase your Str by as much as... 3 points!

[JmOz]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Thanks for the response everyone.

 

If bought as AOE on STR what limitation value would you suggest if the ability could NOT be used to attack multiple targets necessarily?

 

I appreciate the superhero physics angle but the Fantastic Four comic in question* uses this No-Range-Telekinesis/AOE-STR as a key element in the story of how the FF is able to defeat Gladiator (who is basically one of 2 Superman clones in the Marvel Universe. Hyperion is the other) Reed Richards deducts that Gladiator's powers are more than just brute strength by his ability to lift and tilt the Baxter Building off of its foundations by an angle that should have easily caused it to collapse EVEN when considering all the structural improvements that he had made to building as headquarters for the FF. Back when the story came out Marvel was the more gritty and semi-realistic universe when compared to the either pre/mid -Crises DC one.

 

*Things Gladiator did during this story:

Throws a car at The Thing by lifting it by the bumper without damaging it. The Thing catches it but leaves very obvious crush marks where he grips it. Gladiator also punches The Thing so hard that he crashes through about a dozen cars. The combination of all the little extras in the story plus the fact that Gladiator was NOT defined as being more powerful than Thor seems to support the idea that his abilites were not just special effects but in fact out right extra powers above and beyond his already tremendous strength.

 

HM

 

Point of Comic Book Trivia: Gladiator actualy is a rip of of Mon El (The entire Shi'ar Royal guard are legion rip offs)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Point of Comic Book Trivia: Gladiator actualy is a rip of of Mon El (The entire Shi'ar Royal guard are legion rip offs)

And Mon El himself just happens to be a pre-Crises Superboy/Superman clone who just happens to have a weakness to Lead instead of Kryptonite. I was only trying to frame the example with the minimum relevant information.

 

HM

[JmOz]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

True:

 

I should have said

 

Nitpicking Point of Comic book trivia

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

I like the idea of using +X PD Usable by the object lifted.

 

And I don't think Architecture is really the right skill here. Structural Engineering, or Civil Engineering is closer to it.

 

Even if you can pick up the skyscraper without it falling apart, what happens to all the phone lines and power lines and plumbing pipes, etc.? Do they all just magically reconnect to the city's infrastructure when the building is gently set back down? Does all the non-bolted-down funiture slide back into place? Do the computers cheerfully hop back up on their respective desks? The photo of the exective's wife and kids? The lawyer's framed diploma? What about the people?

 

Yes, yes, hurray for golden age comic book physics, but I don't always want to suspend my disbelief that far. Even most comics don't do this kind of stuff anymore.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

FYI,

 

I started this conversation to explore power builds for a character with kinetic, mass and inertia control that is part speedster and part brick (basically a psych limit since his powers potentially could be used at range like traditional TK). The character's powerset has a very appropriate special effect but I don't like the idea of getting the ability for free just because of this.

 

Let me put forth a slightly different example circumstance in which a similar power idea is used. Any Sci-Fi setting that has starships with Artificial Gravity automatically uses that same system to keep the ships occupants from turning into goo when the ship accelerates. Usually the same or similar system is also used to enhance 'Structural Integrity'. Isn't Green Lantern doing exactly the same thing when he creates a 'Space Bubble' that is part Force Wall, Life Support , Telekinesis, Flight and FTL All Usable By Other?

 

Bonus PD is simple but doesn't scale up at the same rate as the characters lifting ability and ends up having the same problem as Area Affect STR=very expensive.

 

HM

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Maybe a new Life Support Power:

 

Safe at Very High Velocity - 2 points, you would get the effects free if you paid points for the movement otherwise you have to buy it separately.

 

Hawksmoor

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Bonus PD is simple but doesn't scale up at the same rate as the characters lifting ability and ends up having the same problem as Area Affect STR=very expensive.

 

HM

 

No it doesn't. It's cheap and easy. Heck, you could buy part of your own PD Usable By Others (Doesn't Lose Power). Remember, when you lift an object, you just have to offset the Body loss with extra PD. So you're looking at needing an extra 10-15 at the most, depending on how big a building you're lifting.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

Why wouldn't you? I've got +50 Str from "tactile telekinesis". It gives me +10 PD "telekinetic shielding"' date=' +10 Recovery "telekinetic reinforcement", and +25 Stun "telekinetic durability". Strength is Strength, whatever you call it.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure that sticking the word 'telekinetic' in front of everything is what I'd be happy to call a decent rationalle. By the rules, of course you can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow it.

 

Tactile telekinesis, fine, but I'd make you take no figured, and define it as being drained by an adjustment power against TK rather than STR.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Advantage on STR that lets you lift the FF's Baxtor Building in one piece

 

system is also used to enhance 'Structural Integrity'. Isn't Green Lantern doing exactly the same thing when he creates a 'Space Bubble' that is part Force Wall, Life Support , Telekinesis, Flight and FTL All Usable By Other?

 

Bonus PD is simple but doesn't scale up at the same rate as the characters lifting ability and ends up having the same problem as Area Affect STR=very expensive.

 

HM

 

You are immune to the side effects of your own power, and if the power is useable by other, then that other has FTL and is therefore immune to the effects of the unreasonable change is speed, or you could use Hawksmoor's idea for an extra LS (although it should be acceleration, not velocity: it is the change of velocity that causes the problems).

 

With regard bonus PD, it does scale up, but slowly: if you are strong enough to lift a house then you'd only need 5 to 10 extra PD added, if you can lift a skyscraper, you'd need an extra 15 to 20.

 

Mind you I don't think it is quite as cheap as originally set out: you are lifting an object, not a character, so you only effect 100kg, and need (without the book, from memory) +1/4 advantage or +5 adder to double the weight. That would certainly scale the power up - and the cost!

 

I'm still plumping for adders. If you are after scaling, I'd say +5 to apply STR to a 100kg object without automatic structural damage and +1 to double the weight you can effect (6 would be 200kg, 7 for 400kg, 15 for 100 tons and so on)