Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

[Hyper-Man]

A recent post gave me the idea that it might be fun to gather a few obscure rules of HERO that everyone might NOT know right off the top of their head. Take the quiz as quickly as possible (without referring to the rulebook) to simulate game time conditions to really test your knowledge.

 

 

1. Ninja Boy has Find Weakness with Martial Arts and makes his Find Weakness roll against Tough Dude's Resistant Defenses. Tough Dude has 30PD/30ED with 30 active points of Damage Resistance. How much defense does Tough Dude get to apply against Ninja Boy's Martial Attacks?
   
2. Blaster Girl was just hit by an Entangle (6 Def, 5 Body) on her last phase. On her next phase she uses her Power Blast to try and break out of the Entangle and rolls 11 Body. Is her phase over? What if she rolled 16 Body vs. the Entange?
   
   
3. Knuckles has a 50 STR and has Armor Piercing as a Naked Advantage on STR. If he throws a Haymaker punch how much damage does it do and is it still Armor Piercing?
   
4. Knuckles also has 10" of Running and decides to do a 10" Movethrough attack. How much damage does he do and is it still Armor Piercing?
   
   
5. Mr. Sneaky has a 25 STR and has a Hand to Hand attack with the advantages Armor Piercing and Reduced End (0 End) (50 active, 33 real). How much damage can he do with a Haymaker punch and how much End does it cost him?
   
   

If anyone has any other similarly confusing and interesting examples please post them. And yes, my gut answer to each of these scenarios was wrong the first time I encountered them. Enjoy!

 

HM

 

answers below (highlight to see)

1. 30 PD.
   
2. No, she still gets a half phase action. She gets her full phase.
   
3. 14d6 but not Armor Piercing.
   
4. he does 12d6 Armor Piercing.
   
   
5. 14d6 Armor Piercing and it costs him 2 END.
   

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

40+ looks but no comments by anyone?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

OK. Here's what I got (all without the book, which I still haven't looked at...):

 

1. 15 points of PD

2. She gets a half phase/full phase (although I never did understand how you could get anything after making an attack. Clearly one of those 'exception' thingies)

3. 12.5d6 (you did specify it had to remain armour piercing)

4. 12d6

5. 14d6 (NOT armour piercing) and 2 END

 

Like I said, I haven't checked the book, but we differ a bit:

 

1. Can't see why the defence isn't halved. It is FW with MA, using MA. Can't see how the damage resistance makes a difference, but...

2. We agree

3. I really need to look that one up, but I took the extra +4d6 and applied it as if it had a +1/2 advantage.

4. We agree

5. Advantages on HA only apply so long as the base damage is not more than doubled, don't they?

[Constantine]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Huh, that makes no sense. In one case a manuever's modifiers make something not AP, but in another, you still get the AP. I think in both cases, it should have to work the same way....

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

I think I've worked out number 1: you are saying that the PD isn't resistant so that it is not effected by the FW?

 

Two things:

 

1. You can do killing attacks with MA (you didn't specify)

2. I thought FW halved all applicable defences, and couldn't be targetted against 'just resistant defences', unless the power was carrying some sort of limitation. I could well be wrong on this...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Huh' date=' that makes no sense. In one case a manuever's modifiers make something not AP, but in another, you still get the AP. I think in both cases, it should have to work the same way....[/quote']

 

It does: the move through would add 3d6, and you get 2d6 AP added the way I worked it out, but like I said I'm not quoting from the book.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

I did not make up any of these rules.

 

They are ALL 'By the Book'. Every rule used in the answers given can be found in 5e and 5er (though it might be necessary to refer to the FAQ if you only have 5e).

 

Find Weakness treats PD and ED that are resistant due to the application of the power Damage Resistance as Normal Defenses.

Advantaged STR damage cannot be increased by martial arts or haymaker without losing the advantages.

Extra Damage from movement gets pro-rated depending on the value of the advantage on STR

[spaceprincessecho]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

1. Ninja Boy has Find Weakness with Martial Arts and makes his Find Weakness roll against Tough Dude's Resistant Defenses. Tough Dude has 30PD/30ED with 30 active points of Damage Resistance. How much defense does Tough Dude get to apply against Ninja Boy's Martial Attacks?

2. Blaster Girl was just hit by an Entangle (6 Def, 5 Body) on her last phase. On her next phase she uses her Power Blast to try and break out of the Entangle and rolls 11 Body. Is her phase over? What if she rolled 16 Body vs. the Entange?

3. Knuckles has a 50 STR and has Armor Piercing as a Naked Advantage on STR. If he throws a Haymaker punch how much damage does it do and is it still Armor Piercing?

4. Knuckles also has 10" of Running and decides to do a 10" Movethrough attack. How much damage does he do and is it still Armor Piercing?

5. Mr. Sneaky has a 25 STR and has a Hand to Hand attack with the advantages Armor Piercing and Reduced End (0 End) (50 active, 33 real). How much damage can he do with a Haymaker punch and how much End does it cost him?

 

1. If I remember FW correctly, it'd be 15 PD he gets. Unless resistent defence isn't reducable by FW... but that brings up the question as to whether the DR is for is PD or ED, or both (and if so in what proportion).

2. Yes and yes. Making an attack ends your phase.

3. That looks like 15d6 and yes, armour piercing.

4. Oh... I don't know the movethrough/moveby rules offhand. Based on my previous answer I'd say it's still AP, though.

5. That's a little complicated, because the advantages aren't on his STR. So... he gets 5d6 from STR, which costs him 2 END (not AP). Then he gets 5d6 from the HtH, which costs 0 END and is AP. Then we toss in Haymaker, which off the top of my head is 1.5x STR damage, implying that the HtH adds seperatly (being not STR). Total, then, is 12.5d6 damage, 5d6 of which is AP, for 2 END.

 

Checking your answers to the quiz, I see that I am...

1. wrong

2. wrong

3. wrong

4. wrong, simply by not knowing, but I got the AP part right

5. wrong, but I got the END part right

[Old Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

I think I didn't understand your wording of question 1, so I got it wrong.

 

I got the others wrong because I never use such munchkin tactics

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

A recent post gave me the idea that it might be fun to gather a few obscure rules of HERO that everyone might NOT know right off the top of their head. Take the quiz as quickly as possible (without referring to the rulebook) to simulate game time conditions to really test your knowledge.

 

 

 

1. Ninja Boy has Find Weakness with Martial Arts and makes his Find Weakness roll against Tough Dude's Resistant Defenses. Tough Dude has 30PD/30ED with 30 active points of Damage Resistance. How much defense does Tough Dude get to apply against Ninja Boy's Martial Attacks?
   
2. Blaster Girl was just hit by an Entangle (6 Def, 5 Body) on her last phase. On her next phase she uses her Power Blast to try and break out of the Entangle and rolls 11 Body. Is her phase over? What if she rolled 16 Body vs. the Entange?
    
   
   
3. Knuckles has a 50 STR and has Armor Piercing as a Naked Advantage on STR. If he throws a Haymaker punch how much damage does it do and is it still Armor Piercing?
   
4. Knuckles also has 10" of Running and decides to do a 10" Movethrough attack. How much damage does he do and is it still Armor Piercing?
    
   
   
5. Mr. Sneaky has a 25 STR and has a Hand to Hand attack with the advantages Armor Piercing and Reduced End (0 End) (50 active, 33 real). How much damage can he do with a Haymaker punch and how much End does it cost him?
    
   
   

If anyone has any other similarly confusing and interesting examples please post them. And yes, my gut answer to each of these scenarios was wrong the first time I encountered them. Enjoy!

 

HM

 

answers below (highlight to see)

1. 30 PD. See 5er page 174.
   
2. No, she still gets a half phase action. She gets her full phase. See 5er page 423.
   
3. 14d6 but not Armor Piercing. See 5er page 409.
   
4. he does 12d6 Armor Piercing. See 5er page 409.
   
   
5. 14d6 Armor Piercing and it costs him 2 END. See 5er page 408.
   

added page number references.

HM

[Narthon]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

#1 I got wrong because I thought it would simply be 15 PD

#2 I got wrong because I thought her phase was ended by the attack action.

#3-5 I gave up on because my brain is addled and I didn't want to do the simple math.

 

 

I see I am not ready to run.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

I think I didn't understand your wording of question 1, so I got it wrong.

 

I got the others wrong because I never use such munchkin tactics

I don't consider it munchkin since this deals with quite a few of the brick tricks in TUB and USPD. However, it is very strange that there are distinct differences in how other manuevers stack with advantaged STR vs. advantaged HA's and they seem to favor HA's in nearly every way (Cost, End, Maximum Advantaged Damage).

 

HM

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Got the book now. help me out here, Hyper Man...

 

1. ...a character with this power may reduce his target's appropriate defence by half...(FRED 113)

 

I take that to mean the defence that applies to the attack, so I think the answer should be 15. Mind you, I don't have 5ER.

 

2. Agreed

 

3. The answer to the question AS ASKED is 10d6, not 14d6! you can't increase the damage of a STR only attack with advantages and retain the advantages, so the most you can do with a haymaker and STILL be AP is 10d6, so there's not much point in doing a haymaker. (Or the answer is 14d6 AP, but either way I disagree with your answer!)

 

4. Agreed

 

5. I think you are right (and I was wrong) about this one: you can do 14d6 AP for 2 END as you can add +5d6 from STR and retain the advantage, and haymakers add the advantage for 'free'.

 

 

 

NOW, let us assume that you are right and I'm wrong...and Constantine, bluegodjanus and Shadowpup are wrong/confused, doesn't this tell us something about the rules?

 

They are not straightforward enough, even when you are reading them straight out of the book (even now I'm not sure if the answer to number 3 should be 14d6 AP).

 

This is pretty bad.

 

I would have thought that there was a strong case for making the rule set more robust, i.e. having basically one rule for adding damage with advantages. As I recall the rule from previous editions was that you, in effect, applied the added DCs as if they had been bought with the appropriate advantages, so +4DC on an attack with +1 advantages would add +2DC.

 

Even if that takes a little time to work out (and it shouldn't take long) IT IS DAMN EASYTO REMEMBER. The present rules are not and so are bad, in my book. Frankly I don't care what the rule is so long as it applies at all situations equally, rather than you having to know whether it is movement adds, HA adds, KA adds or STR adds. Make it 'adds to damage apply advantages as if they had them, or you can't add damage with an advantage you have not paid for, it really doesn't matter, but PICK ONE.

 

Maybe the current system is fairer in terms of game balance, but I really don't care to have to look the rules up (AND still not really know what the answer is having consulted the book) on a case by case basis.

 

One easy rule, please, Steve. You can make everything else optional.

 

NB Rep to Hyper Man for this thread: I hadn't realised how little I knew!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

from: http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/rules/POWERS.htm

Find Weakness

 

Q: Can a character apply Combat Skill Levels to his Find Weakness roll?

 

A: He may apply 10-point Overall Skill Levels, but not any less expensive type of CSL or Skill Level. See below regarding Penalty Skill Levels.

 

Q: When a character uses Find Weakness, does he halve all of the target’s defenses, or just specific ones?

 

A: Find Weakness works similarly to its counterpart, Lack Of Weakness. When a character decides to Find Weakness, he must choose which of these types of defenses he wants to Find Weakness in:

 

1. The target’s Normal Defenses (PD or ED, including Damage Resistance).

 

2. The target’s Resistant Defenses (such as Armor or Force Field). However, Find Weakness has no effect on Damage Reduction unless the GM specifically permits this.

 

3. At the GM’s discretion, any one of the target’s exotic defenses (such as Mental Defense and Power Defense). Generally speaking, most special effects of Find Weakness probably have no effect whatsoever on Flash, Mental, or Power Defense (a -0 Limitation); if a character wants to affect those defenses, typically he should buy Find Weakness with the Does Not Apply Against Certain Types Of Defenses Limitation to make it only apply against that one type of exotic defense.

 

The character can switch what he wants to apply his Find Weakness to from Phase to Phase. For example, one Phase he could Find Weakness in the target’s Resistant Defenses; the next he could Find Weakness in the same target’s Normal Defenses. But he can only locate the weaknesses in one type of defenses at a time.

 

Even if the character switches from defense type to defense type, the standard -2 per additional roll penalty applies. So, for example, if a character Finds Weakness twice in a target’s Resistant Defenses, and then wants to halve his Normal Defenses, the roll for halving the Normal Defenses would be at -4 (since it’s the third Find Weakness roll made against the target).

 

As always, you should take into account special effects, common sense, dramatic sense, and considerations of game balance. There may be situations where the GM’s willing to expand the effects of Find Weakness a little, or times when he considers it necessary to reduce them.

 

*NEW*Q: Does using the Hit Location rules affect how Find Weakness works?

 

A: No. Hit Locations don’t affect Find Weakness at all — it applies to halve the defenses on any Location the character cares to target. Nor is it necessary to roll “by Locationâ€; one roll covers all Hit Locations.

 

*NEW*Q: When a character uses Find Weakness against, say, Resistant Defenses, does he have to specify the type of Resistant Defense (such as “I Find Weakness on Force Fieldâ€)?

 

A: No. He just specifies “Resistant Defenses,†and if he succeeds he reduces the character’s total applicable Resistant Defenses by half.

HM

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

The FAQ: declarifying otherwise perfectly understandable rules. Seems to me this is just going to encourage people to buy DR and Armour, as it makes FW more difficult to apply...which seems daft...

 

Anyway, cheers, HM, you are absolutely right. Mind you, how damage resistance is not a resistant defence I am definitely unclear on...

 

Are you able to give me references for Q3? I was looking at FRED 272 (I don't have 5ER)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

The FAQ: declarifying otherwise perfectly understandable rules. Seems to me this is just going to encourage people to buy DR and Armour, as it makes FW more difficult to apply...which seems daft...

 

Anyway, cheers, HM, you are absolutely right. Mind you, how damage resistance is not a resistant defence I am definitely unclear on...

 

Are you able to give me references for Q3? I was looking at FRED 272 (I don't have 5ER)

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/rules/COMBAT%20AND%20ADVENTURING.htm

 

Q: If a character has bought an Advantage for his STR (say, Armor Piercing), and he then uses a Martial Maneuver or Haymaker, how does the Advantage apply — to all the dice, to just the STR dice, to none of the dice?

 

A: It applies to none of the dice (see 5E 272, second paragraph in the right-hand column). For example, a character with 20 STR, Armor Piercing, who uses an Offensive Strike (+4d6) does 8d6 Normal Damage, with no AP effect.

 

If a character wants to make an Advantages Martial Arts attack, he should buy Advantages for specific Martial Maneuvers, as described in the optional rules on page 104 of The Ultimate Martial Artist.

 

Q: If a character buys an Advantage for part of his STR that affects how his STR does damage (such as Armor Piercing or Penetrating), how do you apply the damage to defenses if he uses more than that amount of STR? For example, suppose a character with STR 75 buys Armor Piercing for up to STR 50 (cost: 25 points) — how does the damage apply to the target’s defenses if he uses his full 75 STR?

 

A: If the character uses up to the amount of STR he has bought the Advantage for, you apply the damage as normal for the rules for the Advantage. If he uses more than that amount of STR, the Advantage does not apply at all.

 

Q: If a character has an Advantaged attack (say, an EB 6d6, Armor Piercing) and he Haymakers with it, does the Advantage still apply? How much damage would a Haymakered EB 6d6, Armor Piercing do?

 

A: With an Advantaged EB (or other attack besides STR, for which there are special rules), typically the character retains the Advantage when Haymakering, and it applies to the extra Haymaker dice, per the second paragraph in the left column on page 272. In this example, the attack would do 10d6 Normal Damage, Armor Piercing.

HM

[Nevenall]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Anyway, cheers, HM, you are absolutely right. Mind you, how damage resistance is not a resistant defence I am definitely unclear on...

 

I can only begin to speculate, so that is what I will do.

 

Damage Resistance is the equivelent of buying Normal Defense with a resistant Advantage. The base power is still Normal Defense for all purposes including Find Weakness and Adjustment powers.

 

Though you should keep in mind I missed all the questions.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

I can only begin to speculate, so that is what I will do.

 

Damage Resistance is the equivelent of buying Normal Defense with a resistant Advantage. The base power is still Normal Defense for all purposes including Find Weakness and Adjustment powers.

 

Though you should keep in mind I missed all the questions.

That's an inspired way of describing Damage Resistance. With that in mind it is probably the first example of a "Naked Advantage" as a power since it is commonly bought with the Hardened Advantage as well.

 

HM

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Nobody else knows of any other "Tricky Aspects" of the basic HERO rules?

(I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination!)

 

To encourage participation I'll give REP to the first 5 posts that point out a new counter-intuitive aspect of the current HERO 5er rules on this thread!

 

HM

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Nobody else knows of any other "Tricky Aspects" of the basic HERO rules?

 

Well, I consider these 'tricky' but not really 'counter-intuitive', but what the hell:

 

1. Wicked Lazer fires his Nasty Beam (3d6+1 RKA with +2 STUNx) at young sidekick Wonder Boy and hits. If Wonder Boy's ED/rED is 20/10 and Wicked Lazer rolls 11 BODY and a '4' on the STUNx die, how much damage does Wonder Boy take? What if he rolls a '1' on the STUNx die?
    
    
   
2. The GM is having the villian Bio-Flame do battle with the Mighty Mahogany Man, a new PC. Bio-Flame lets loose with his Terrible Torch power (9d6 EB AP) and burns the Wooden Warrior. Mighty Mahogany Man has 25 ED and 25% Energy Damage Reduction, but he also has a Vulnerability to Flame Attacks (1.5x STUN). If Bio-Flame rolls 29 STUN damage on the dice, how much does the Mighty Mahogany Man take?
    
    
   
3. Powerman (SPD 5) did a full move and smashed through the skylight on Phase 3. On Phase 5 he flies a half-move towards the Terror Team and blasts Fear with a pushed Power Blast. Powerman then declares he's going to do a Presence Attack on Loathing (SPD 4), the remaining member of the team. When does his Presence Attack go off? Will Loathing get a chance to respond?

 

I'll post the answers later.

 

We really need to get the

spoiler tags

on this board.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Well, I consider these 'tricky' but not really 'counter-intuitive', but what the hell:

 

 

 

 

1. Wicked Lazer fires his Nasty Beam (3d6+1 RKA with +2 STUNx) at young sidekick Wonder Boy and hits. If Wonder Boy's ED/rED is 20/10 and Wicked Lazer rolls 11 BODY and a '4' on the STUNx die, how much damage does Wonder Boy take? What if he rolls a '1' on the STUNx die?
   
2. The GM is having the villian Bio-Flame do battle with the Mighty Mahogany Man, a new PC. Bio-Flame lets loose with his Terrible Torch power (9d6 EB AP) and burns the Wooden Warrior. Mighty Mahogany Man has 25 ED and 25% Energy Damage Reduction, but he also has a Vulnerability to Flame Attacks (1.5x STUN). If Bio-Flame rolls 29 STUN damage on the dice, how much does the Mighty Mahogany Man take?
   
3. Powerman (SPD 5) did a full move and smashed through the skylight on Phase 3. On Phase 5 he flies a half-move towards the Terror Team and blasts Fear with a pushed Power Blast. Powerman then declares he's going to do a Presence Attack on Loathing (SPD 4), the remaining member of the team. When does his Presence Attack go off? Will Loathing get a chance to respond?
   

I'll post the answers later.

 

We really need to get the

spoiler tags

on this board.

Very Nice!

 

I'll give them a go. Highlight to see my answers.

 

 

1. 35 or 13.
   
2. 22.
   
3. Immediately on phase 5. Not with any combat manuever. He can talk or make a presense attack of his own though.
   

HM

 

 

*Reminder

I owe rep to beauxdeigh.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Displaying ignorance again...

 

1: 35 stun/1 Body or 2 Stun/1Body

2: 36 Stun/0Body

3: Phase 5 immediately after the attack and no, but he still got a go on phase 4 and could be holding it AND if not he can abort to a defensive manoeuvre if he can think of one that is going to help.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Sorry, Q2 should be 22, I think: I had thought it was 2xStun not 1.5xStun.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

...actually I can't really think of many examples of counter-intuitive rules, because if I find one, I take a hammer out of my 'toolkit' and use it to hit the rule until it is a more acceptable shape.

 

One example:

 

Never did understand why someone who is grabbed necessarily has to stop moving, or even fall if they were flying, so if Gravitron has gravity nullifying flight and can normally lift 5 tons and still fly, when the 250kg Mongo grabs him he can still fly, and lift the both of them in my games.

 

Remember: toolkits have hammers in them. Use the hammer!

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Game-Time Pop-Quiz for GM's

 

Highlight to see my answers.

 

Just an FYI, HM. Those of us using the gray and green template don't need to highlight, we see that white color just fine.