Just Joe Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I like the various ideas posted by others about adaptability of villains. This gives the supplement value to a wider range of gamers, including those who don't like to be bounded by conventional genre distinctions. I'd like to see some lower-powered villains. Since I know I'm in the minority on this, I'd ask you to consider making some supervillains who would make interesting low-powered villains when deprived of their powers. Almost any modern character can be adapted to SH without radical change, but a little forethought in their design can make this process easier and/or more satisfying. The former espionage and corrupt authorities could also be adapted to a wide range of games. I also like the idea of teams of two or more villains, but please keep the cheese-factor low -- they don't all have to consist of roughly-equal-powered villains with different specialties and code-names. As for the "mature themes" issue, I personally prefer GMing and playing in games that are intended for adults, but there is no need to sully up the publication for younger readers. Not only is tasteful language called for, but plenty of things can be left completely unsaid. Those who want the really ugly stuff don't needed it spelled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I'd like to see some true mastermind villains, folks whose main strengths aren't in personal combat (and in fact tend to flee if it comes down to just them and their opponents), but who have the bulk of their points invested in perks of various sorts: contacts, wealth, followers, etc. And their followers follow them because they're a brilliant planner rather than having the biggest zap around. Maybe even has connections to the media which could cause far more problems for the heroes than sending a group of thugs could. I'm thinking along the lines of a politician or CEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Lovecraft' date=' Whamphyri, and The Astrologer really fit more into Horror Hero than DC under Fred/5ER.[/quote'] Yes and no. If the PC's are essentially normals with really good skills than they would definitely fall under the old HH setting. But the new DC covers a much broader area. Lovecraft is spot-on for a "Monster Hunter" DC campaign. I am gearing up a DC:TAS/Monster Hunter campaign that will take place in Vibora Bay and Hudson City. I am down to fleshing out the HC part as soon as my copy comes in. I have the old HC products that I was using for general guidelines. Once I get HC in and read, I will plug in (and modify) my stuff and be ready to run. But I intend to have a distinctly Lovecraftian influence in my game without actually making it a pure horror one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineappleleader Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I would like to see some Organizations and some NPC's that could be used in a Wierd Conspiracy type campaign. DC really does not say too much about this type of campaign. I would prefer that it be Heroic rather than Super Heroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I do want to see writups on "Mussel Thug", "Brain Thug", "Gunner Thug", "Marthal Thug", "Snekie Thug", "Seduction Thug", ect. Unless such things have been already been printed up in the Dark Champions main book (I still don't have my copy of this fine book myself...shame on me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? If the PC's are essentially normals with really good skills than they would definitely fall under the old HH setting. It is a matter of how you handle the subjects - the darkness and the lightness as to whether it is Horror or just ambiguous morallity.. But the other point is - Will there ever likely be a 5th ed Horror Hero? Dark Champions is basically a subset of horror - with superheroes (very much like Wildcards) and a lesser emphasise on horror (more tragedy). It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to fit horror into DC - you just emphasize the horror elements in supplements for it, and you need not create a new sourcebook just for horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? It is a matter of how you handle the subjects - the darkness and the lightness as to whether it is Horror or just ambiguous morallity.. But the other point is - Will there ever likely be a 5th ed Horror Hero? Dark Champions is basically a subset of horror - with superheroes (very much like Wildcards) and a lesser emphasise on horror (more tragedy). It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to fit horror into DC - you just emphasize the horror elements in supplements for it, and you need not create a new sourcebook just for horror. Actually I was agreeing with you and refuting BobGreenwade's assertion (at least my interpretation of his assertion) that "Lovecraft, Whamphyri, and The Astrologer really fit more into Horror Hero than DC under Fred/5ER". HH is a very narrow focus. DC has a much broader focus and easily encompases spy-thriller/crime settings as well as almost all of the Horror settings. I don't think we will see a HH book along the lines of DC. But we may see a smaller one that is more like akin to a city setting or source book like Demon or Viper, but adding depth to DC with an emphasis on Horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joe Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Will there ever likely be a 5th ed Horror Hero? Dark Champions is basically a subset of horror . . . It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to fit horror into DC - you just emphasize the horror elements in supplements for it' date=' and you need not create a new sourcebook just for horror.[/quote'] I don't have strong opinions about where to draw lines between genres, sub-genre's, etc., nor do I think there is an absolute necessity for a 5th ed. HH. Nevertheless, I think there's A LOT you could put in a HH book that is not covered in DC, and I believe a substantial HH book is very much worth publishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I don't have strong opinions about where to draw lines between genres' date=' sub-genre's, etc., nor do I think there is an absolute necessity for a 5th ed. HH. Nevertheless, I think there's A LOT you could put in a HH book that is not covered in DC, and I believe a substantial HH book is very much worth publishing.[/quote'] Very well said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? True - it's really just campaign tone, and doesn't need a sourcebook. And I wasn't disagreeing with your agreement I just realised that it could serve two purposes at the same time. Anyhow, this is OT so I won't add anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? True - it's really just campaign tone, and doesn't need a sourcebook. And I wasn't disagreeing with your agreement I just realised that it could serve two purposes at the same time. Anyhow, this is OT so I won't add anymore It is isn't it. I'll bow out too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? It is, so I'm just as happy to see it end here... ...but it's an interesting topic that you could certainly start another thread for on the DC board, or shift to "Other Genres" if you want to talk about what would/wouldn't be appopriate for a new HH, should we choose to publish one. No need to let a good discussion wither away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funksaw Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? An evil corporation, their goons and special operatives. References : -Bubblegum crisis' Genom -Robocop's OCP Angel's Woflram & Hart Halliburton.... Let me second this idea - also, it might be cool to give the GM ideas for creating evil -groups- along the lines of VIPER or DEMON. ----- And... well, what about predators in the more normal sense - those who feast on humanity. Some Giger-inspired creatures living in the sewers, or perhaps a rip-off of Unknown Armies "Ordo Corpulentis" (Texas Republicans who believe that social darwinism gives them the right to literally eat the poor. Gaining mystical power of some sort from it is optional.) Also give us a couple tempters. But don't make the "tempters" obviously villianous - tempters are best when they don't do evil but when they entice other people to do the evil things instead. Satan, as written by Rod Serling. I know this may sound weird. Give us "remorseful" villians too - "It hurts! Except when I hurt you back! Stay back!" is a great line... I don't know if "redeemable" villians are possible, but those can be fun. The other archetypes would probably be the "villian who literally can't help it." (perhaps someone with a need for human parts like blood, brains, or liver to stay alive... ) and the "villian who you can empathize with." - something like a killer who is going after the corp that killed his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funksaw Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Heh! Not that this hasn't been done in DC -- or real life, for that matter -- but I'd love to see crooked politicians who made it all the way to the top. That's right - give me a President Luthor, or a President Smiler - perhaps with a mislead: "Oh, this only goes up to the CIA - it couldn't possibly go all the way up to the President..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I think a wide selection of "realism levels" would be good; everything from Mafia/Yakuza/Triad goons and bosses, to mystical-weird-stuff guys. And among the latter, I beg for an updated Mr. Rapantap (from Normals Unbound). I always liked the idea of a "bogeyman" whose agents are little kids. But without the picture of Mulletkid, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joe Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? I think a wide selection of "realism levels" would be good; everything from Mafia/Yakuza/Triad goons and bosses' date=' to mystical-weird-stuff guys.[/quote'] I think this is a good idea. The more variety in terms of power-levels, realism levels, etc., the better. And if individual write-ups can have options to conform to different levels, that's even better. "Something for everyone" is great, but "Everything for everyone" is even better. Though the latter motto is unacheivable, a remarkably close approximation might be possible with carefully crafted characters with well-designed options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Every Batman needs a Commissioner Ellen Yindel. Steve, if you could throw in just one or two straight-arrow cops who doesn't agree with vigilante justice (even when the hero has a Code Against Killing), and hunts down the heroes for violating the law, I'd be much obliged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? They have Good Villains in scifi shows now and then - and it would be interesting to have them in DC as well. Villains that have to be stopped - but they do what they do for good, just and right reasons. An example would be the 4th season episode of Stargate "Scorched Earth". Villains that are saving their loved ones, or their entire race/species from destruction etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakueins Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? There has to be a Kaiser Souze-type Mastermind. The one that the Harbringer fears. Someone that will destroy you if he knows you're on his ass-and you'll never see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Every Batman needs a Commissioner Ellen Yindel. Steve, if you could throw in just one or two straight-arrow cops who doesn't agree with vigilante justice (even when the hero has a Code Against Killing), and hunts down the heroes for violating the law, I'd be much obliged. I intend to create such characters -- but not in this book, which is an enemies book. Characters like that (and like many of the "more or less ordinary guys" suggestions that have been made in this thread) will appear in The Man In The Street, the Dark Champions normals books that I plan to write (though it's not now on the schedule). As an enemies book, Predators focuses mainly on named characters who would, for some reason, be directly opposed to the PCs in an adversarial/confrontational sort of relationship. You can already find some cop NPCs -- good, bad, or otherwise -- in Hudson City, such as Commmissioner Alexander Ringwald (page 139) and Officer Todd French (page 143). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shocker Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Virtually anything except Harbinger of Justice. I saw him in the original Dark Champs and was mortally offended. Here's a guy that can slaughter most supers let alone DC characters... However, Hero Games has done a lot of great team stuff in the past. I almost always have a villian team based on the Zodiac so something like that for DC would be nice. A lot of the other posts have nice ideas...mobsters, ninjas, a smattering of the supernatural (anyone else remember Kolchak the Night Stalker played by Darin McGavin?). Perhaps some mastermind types with unusual twists...hire or equip others to do their dirty work and so on. The rare monster might be a nice change as well...Heroes fighting zombies might be interesting once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specks Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Virtually anything except Harbinger of Justice. I saw him in the original Dark Champs and was mortally offended. Here's a guy that can slaughter most supers let alone DC characters... Harbinger is in Hudson City. He doesn't have the "teleporting gadget pool" anymore but he's just as lethal (if not more so) But for every Holmes, there is a Moriarty. I have a feeling that Steve will include someone just as lethal (Andres Panthanatos anyone) By the way, you really shouldn't be mortally offended. After all, it's just a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? You can already find some cop NPCs -- good' date=' bad, or otherwise -- in [i']Hudson City,[/i] such as Commmissioner Alexander Ringwald (page 139) and Officer Todd French (page 143). Good enough for me! Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? Out of curiosity, for Steve... Is there any focus for Predators? Dark Champions is such a varied genre, I'm curious what kind of bad guys will see... DC:TAS? Less campy vigilante crime fighting? HCPD campaign oriented bad-guys? Military campaigns? Serious, and not-so, spy campaign bad guys? Am I going to be looking at mostly Jokers, mostly Hannibal Lecters, mostly Blofields, or mostly street thugs? Or an equal blending? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: PREDATORS -- What Do *You* Want To See? There's a wide variety of villains, though most of them fall into the "serious" end of the spectrum in one way or another -- for the lighter-hearted DC:TAS fare, you can look to the book of the same name, which has about 30 new villains. So far in writing PREDATORS I've gotten to create a wide variety of cool characters, and I think no matter what type of DC game someone runs, they'll be able to find plenty of adversaries to inflict on their PCs within the book's pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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