Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

[PhilFleischmann]

Just some thoughts I had about setting up fantasy religions. Obviously, or maybe not obviously, you don't need to supply all of the following details. Some may simply not be relevent to your game, while others may be left as matters of opinion or speculation among the players and characters (PC's and NPC's) in the game world.

 

Let me know if you think of anything that I left out.

 

(and I hope my outline formatting comes out right.)

 

Stuff to make up about the gods

 

I. The pantheon

A. Creation myth

1. Creation of the natural world

2. Creation of people

B. Organization

1. Family tree

2. Command structure

a) Rigid-fluid

Degree of authority/control

3. Relationships between deities

a) Couples

Allies/Partners

c) Rivals/enemies

C. Reality

1. Form. Examples:

a) The gods are all myth/superstition.

The gods are legends based on exaggeration of historical events.

c) The gods are spirits of dead ancestors or other historical persons.

d) The gods are abstract concepts with no actual consciousness.

e) The gods are quasi-real with forms/attributes/aspect assigned by worshipping cultures.

f) The gods exist on a different level of reality, which allows them to modify their aspects/appearance based on their own desires or the culture they interact with.

g) The gods exist in a concrete sense and have true forms/attributes/aspects, which may be subject to interpretation/misinterpretation by worshippers.

2. Power Level. Examples:

a) The gods are nothing more than mere mortals that are worshipped.

The gods are mere mortals believed to rise to divinity upon death or other event.

c) The gods are somewhat more powerful than typical mortals.

d) The gods have great power that only the greatest of mortals could rival.

e) The gods have incredible power beyond any mortal.

f) The gods have cosmic power, incomprehensible to mortals.

3. Power Source. Examples:

a) The gods' power is intrinsic.

The gods' power is granted by superior gods.

c) The gods' power comes from external forces.

d) The gods' power comes from natural phenomena related to the gods' portfolio.

e) The gods' power comes from worship.

f) The gods' power comes from mortals' deeds.

II. The deity

A. Symbolic

1. Name(s)

2. Epithets/Nicknames

3. Appearance/Typical depiction

4. Symbol/Icon

5. Associated items/animals/materials/colors/phenomena

B. Intrinsic

1. Myth/Story

2. Portfolio/Sphere of influence

3. Differences/similarities to other deities

4. Stats/powers/abilities

a) Possessions/Artifacts/Relics

Pets/Familiars/Mounts

5. Divine "rank"/Level of power

6. Home

a) "Plane" where the deity dwells

Relationship of the deity to the "plane(s)"

C. Psychology/behavior

1. Personality

2. Goals/desires

3. Degree of involvement in mortal affairs

a) Manifestations/Avatars

Spells/powers/abilities granted to clergy/worshippers

c) Signs/Miracles

D. Social

1. Among the gods

a) Reputation

Position/function/purpose

2. Among mortals

a) Popularity/Obscurity

Purpose of worship/reasons invoked

c) Abilities/skills typical/valued

III. The religion

A. Internal

1. Principles

a) Values/Dogma

Obligations/expectations of clergy

c) Obligations/expectations of laity

d) Laws/taboos/restrictions

e) Attitude toward heresy/disagreement/questioning of doctrine/theology

2. Practice

a) Rituals/Rites

Holidays

c) Prayers

d) Priestly Vestments/Raiment

e) Temple architecture/layout/decor

f) Expressions/idioms

g) Equipment/paraphernalia used

h) Resolution of disputes

i) Punishment/penance/atonement

j) Education/Indoctrination of the faithful

k) Proselytism

3. Status of clergy/laity

4. Sects/factions/orders

5. Organization/hierarchy

B. External

1. Position in the community

2. Relations with other religions

C. Race/ethnicity/location/culture of worshippers

1. Alternate interpretations/aspects

2. Alternate names

IV. "Divine Magic"

A. Effects

1. Types of effects available/not available

2. Power Level

3. Special Effects

B. Source/Method to acquire/use. Examples:

1. No actual divine magic exists. Priests don't claim any magic.

2. No actual divine magic exists. Priestly magic is all chicanery.

3. There's no real difference between divine magic and "arcane" magic.

4. Divine magic is an inherent force in the world, separate from wizardly magic. Priests access it by their own means.

5. Divine magic is a fragment of the god's or gods' power, which priests access by being priests or doing something that priests do.

6. Gods grant magic to priests directly and consciously, if they choose to.

7. Gods grant magic to priests through intermediaries or lesser divine beings, with occasional oversight by the god(s).

8. Gods grant higher-powered magic to priests directly and consciously, while lesser magic is granted more-or-less automatically.

9. Priests access magic through their own faith, without the god's direct involvement. Strength of faith determines success or power level.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Nice outline. I'm probably gonna steal it for cleaning up my widely scattered notes and the thoughts that haven't made it to paper yet.

 

*obviously, I'm in mega gaming mode right now... spending all free time on here*

[simplygnome]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

And THAT is exactly why making religion in my games is a headache. Thats close enough to the same outline I use...and I love it...but my lord is it anal. =P

 

Im not insulting you -- But it is horridly detail oriented...and EXACTLY what I think a good fantasy game needs for true relgious tones....

 

Meh...how I hate the hero system sometimes, yet I can never uncurl my hands from the book...how horridly ironic.

 

Good luck, and feel free to mail/message/ or post me if you ever want to swap ideas or past experiences with god systems...

 

Edit- Rep for you. This is an awesome list and a good resource.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

That's nicely done, and though I haven't followed anything that well laid out when creating my mythologies, I do tend to cover most of it.

 

It's not clear from your outline whether you think that everything needs to be a single choice, or if you can have multiple different answers for some questions. For example, sources of power: might some deities (nature / elemental) have "innate" power, but others (usually 'champion'- or 'hero'-type gods) might have the "power provided by worshippers" option?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

I'll second the rep idea... this really is VERY good

[Lupus]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Good list, pretty comprehensive.

 

For those with a creative writing bent, what really gets me interested in pantheons are myths. Not just the standard ones, but also random myths. Like how agriculture was discovered. Or just two gods interacting. These can lead to minor but interesting facets in the game world, depending on how much the myths influence the worship.

 

Naturally, it's easy to go overboard. Not everything in a religion comes directly from myths.

 

But my favorite ever fantasy religion has gotta be the Storm Pantheon from Glorantha. Man, it rocks. So many gods, all laid out, and myths aplenty between them. Things that let you understand who these guys are and how they behave, so you can then strive to emulate them (if your character leans that way).

 

And the big thing with myths: are they actually REAL? In Glorantha, every culture has their own version of the same myths. Are they real? Can anyone really tell? Ultimately, does it matter? (Obviously, it matters to the worshippers - we're right, dammit. But on an objective, external view...)

 

Another thing to think about (I know it's in the list, I'm just highlighting it) is the portfolio thing. Do gods have distinct portfolios? Do they overlap? Are there multiple of a type? Do gods tend to have one, two, or multiple portfolios? How are these portfolios themed? Are they like D&D gods - the god of wizards, the god of thieves, the god of smiths (IE, worshipper focussed)? Are they ordered - god of sun, god of rain, god of agriculture (IE, world focussed)? Or is it something inbetween?

 

And are there gods of different types? Are there ones who are absolute and remote, existing alongside mortals worshipped as gods? (I have something similar in my world: there are mortals who are worshipped, but they're generally intermediaries - saints - for bigger gods. Then again, there are also mortals who have ascended to true godhood, which is another thing to think about.)

 

I guess the final thing... do the gods have enemies who are not gods themselves? Things like the frost giants in Norse mythology. (Of course, at that power level, they may simply be gods from their own pantheon.)

 

That's just the kind of stuff I try to go through. For inspiration, I look to real-world religions. I try to take elements, mix 'em together, to create something that's not simply Greco/Norse Mash.

 

And remember, you don't have to go through all that much detail. Particularly if relgion isn't too important to your world. Rule of thumb is that if you have a priest in the party, you better have a somewhat detailed religion. If everyone in the group is devout, you better have a REAL detailed religion. If they're agnostics, who cares? Have a few god names, have a couple of stories, have a loose pantheon... that's all you need.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Here's a representative sample of the info I have about the gods for the mythology of my world of Dolwr. Since there are over 300 gods in the pantheon, obviously I'm not going to put them all here.

 

I don't know how the formatting on this is going to turn out -- the file is in WordPerfect format, and I'm trying the 'publish to HTML' option in hopes it produces something usable:

 

Edit: I got sick of the lousy formatting job and fixed it. It should be much more readable now.

 

[simplygnome]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Dr.A, the part I think most important is how the gods relate to the world...

 

Can your gods walk upon the material plane when they want? How do they give clerics power, or do they? Are they worshipped, and do they care? How active are they with the world....

 

Im not saying you havent thought of this...Im just curious to see how you set this up in your game...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Dr.A, the part I think most important is how the gods relate to the world...

 

Can your gods walk upon the material plane when they want? How do they give clerics power, or do they? Are they worshipped, and do they care? How active are they with the world....

 

Im not saying you havent thought of this...Im just curious to see how you set this up in your game...

Oh, yes, I certainly have thought about that. The excerpt above was a sample of the sort of "personal info" I have for each deity, and wasn't intended to touch on the more broad-reaching aspects of how they (deities in general) interact with the world.

 

In one way, the world of Dolwr is "god heavy" -- in some respects they influence nearly every aspect of daily life. That doesn't mean, though, that you'll find one standing on every street corner. Yes, they can walk the material plane if they wish (in some ways they have no choice) and frequently do, though most people will only ever meet one deity in their life (Tory, the goddess of death). When winter comes each year, it's because Mordodan the King of Summer has fallen into a coma-like sleep brought on by the poison slipped him by his sister ages ago, and that same sister -- Frestwith, the Queen of Winter -- is marching south with her forces to subjugate the lands. This isn't just metaphor -- there are actual agents of winter moving south, spreading the cold and ice as they go, and the people at the extreme northern edge of the habital lands make it their duty every year, during a time called the Harrow-with, to find and destroy as many of these agents as they can. The more agents they miss, the harsher the winter is. Even so, most people will never meet an agent of the Queen of Winter, but all feel the effects of their presence.

 

"Heaven" and "Hell" are also physical locations in the "material plane" -- the city of the gods is at the bottom of an impossibly deep, cold, and clear lake that fills an old volcanic cone. Though the city is deep under the water, it itself is filled with air and so on. That's "just the way things be". Likewise Hell (the home of demonic creatures, called Fell in Dolwr) is deep underground, safely hidden from the light most of them despise. Since these are actual physical locations I suppose it's at least possible that a mortal could find his or her way to them, but as of yet it hasn't happened (or I haven't created a myth in which it did).

 

They are worshipped, and do care. They take quite an active interest in worldly affairs, though it's not as if they're directing the fall of every leaf or the step of every traveler. They do grant spells and magics to their priests, the extent and type depending heavily on the god in question. Not all of them grant the healing magics so prevalent in clerics in "other games", but most of them grant at least some limited spells in this regard. Some, of course, don't -- because it's out of character for them. Merrit, Mother of Assassins, for example, wouldn't be inclined to grant a healing spell even if it were a very faithful follower asking for it; in fact, she'd probably give them the gimlet eye and wonder just how faithful they actually were if they were asking her for healing.

 

The way the gods grant spells to their priests varys a bit, and isn't hard and fast. Mostly it's a case of the priest calling on their god's favor to be channeled through them for the desired effect.

 

There's a lot of overlap of portfolios between various gods, and sometimes this is a cause for rivalry but often not. Basically, there's enough for everyone (unless you're one of the greedy types of deity). In addition, there's sort of a heirarchy of responsibility here, so while there is a god for leatherworkers and a god for woodworkers and so on, all of them owe fealty to the god of craftsmen. Thus, even if a particular mortal doesn't worship you directly, he may very well be doing so indirectly via one of your subordinates.

 

Also, while everyone has their own favorite or patron deity, very few deities demand absolute dependence on them alone from their worshippers. After all, if your cart needs repair you don't call a vet, you call a wainwright. For the most part, people are free to call upon or offer prayers to whatever deity is appropriate for what concerns them at the moment...just so long as they "remember where home is."

 

When you hear me 'talk' about my mythology, world, and gods, you'll hear lots of phrases like "in general" or "for the most part". The reason for this is that while each deity has much specific information on them, they don't all fit into nice neat little pigeon holes and not all gods/religions "work" the same way. For every generality, there's at least one deity that breaks the rule. The reason for this is that real-world mythologies are never absolutely rigidly defined, all nice and neat -- and I've found it lends a flavor of "reality" to have a mythology created for a game world to have some of that uncertainty, that "blurriness" about it.

 

As a simple example, deities in my mythology can come about in various ways...they can Awake wholly formed from some substance or ideal; they can be Born of other deities, and they can be Elevated to divine status from some mortal existence. There is one oddball in the pantheon, though, that didn't come about that way. Barrin the Bold, Sunmaker, Arrived from somewhere else -- and that "somewhere else" is never explained, named, or detailed.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

What a cool thread! I look looking at others' ideas for fantasy mythology. Many moons ago, I started posting my own fantasy world's myths, legends, and gods. I covered most (though not all) of Phil's outline throughout it -- though I'm generally less interested in the "stats" than in the stories. If anyone is still interested, it's at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18634

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Okay, I fixed the formatting on my "sample of god info" post. I know I've posted around here before about Dolwr and its gods, and the Creation Story for the world. If anyone's interested, I'll try to dig up those old posts; if all else fails, I can simply re-post the stuff -- if there's interest.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Thank you all for the kind words!

 

Yes, I know it's quite a bit of detail. And no, I don't fill in all those details for my own fantasy world myself. And no, I don't think it's necessary for you to do so either. The idea was just to compile a list of all the details one *might* want to fill in about the gods.

 

I was partially inspired by the deities in another game system that shall remain nameless. In that game, the gods were all fully-statted-out like characters, as if the players are likely to meet them in the tavern of the next town. And might even enter combat against them! Why else devote so much book space to every little detail of their combat abilities? And yet there was hardly any mention at all of what individual worshippers or clergy (the Player Characters - remember them?) are expected to *do* in relation to the religion. This struck me as rather silly. Of course, it may be perfectly reasonable in a game where fighting the gods is part of it.

 

As I was creating the gods for my world (a process that is still ongoing and has been for years), ideas would come to me for many different aspects of the dieties' personalities, religions, etc. So I decided to write up this outline.

 

I'll give you a few examples from my pantheon:

 

- There are no temples to Lifled, god of love and friendship. Instead worship services are held in temples of Arlifo, his wife, goddess of beauty and love.

 

- Since worship of Olo, god of the sun, only takes place during the day, and worship of his sister, Nool, goddess of the moon, takes place only at night, many cities have dual-purpose temples or shrines, to save space.

 

- Clerics of Delphileq, god of justice and king of the gods, wear low cloth hats that cover the entire top of the head from the eyebrows up, with cloth flaps that hang down between the eyes (covering the bridge of the nose) and along the temples ("sideburns" flaps).

 

- Temples to Virben, goddess of goodness, have entrances on all sides, and sometimes have no solid walls at all, being enclosed only by widely-spaced columns. This symbolizes that all are welcome.

 

- Irev-Naru is alternately called Naru-Irev, Irev, or Naru. He is the most popular god among the orcs. His two names represent two different aspects: Naru is the aspect of war, conquest, and rage. Irev is the aspect of violence, hatred, and destruction.

 

- Quinimi, popular among the gnomes, is said to have created himself, out of nothing.

 

- Menlec, god of knowledge, and his wife, Socom, goddess of cities, were once mortal, and were raised to divine status by Delphileq. Together, they are often known oxymoronically as "The Mortal Gods."

 

OK, this is getting too long. I find that I come up with a lot of ideas relating to temple archiecture and sobriquets.

[Old Man]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

For those with a creative writing bent' date=' what really gets me interested in pantheons are myths. Not just the standard ones, but also random myths. Like how agriculture was discovered. Or just two gods interacting. These can lead to minor but interesting facets in the game world, depending on how much the myths influence the worship.[/quote']

 

That's the method that has always provided the most success for me. Which would you rather read-- a table that lists $GODNAME $AREAOFRESPONSIBILITY $SYMBOL $FAVORITECOLOR $ALIGNMENT $POWERS? Or the story of how the demigod Nurr vied with the Sun for dominance of the skies, and was cast down, and how his body formed the Land and his blood formed the Sea, while the Sun was so badly wounded he could no longer remain in the sky indefinitely, but had to rest every day? And how Sun's daughter, Moon, valiantly struggled to provide all the children of the Earth with light herself, while Nurr's temperamental wife Oshin was so embittered by the loss of her husband that she drowned herself in the sea of his blood, becoming one with it? And so on.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

That's the method that has always provided the most success for me. Which would you rather read-- a table that lists $GODNAME $AREAOFRESPONSIBILITY $SYMBOL $FAVORITECOLOR $ALIGNMENT $POWERS? Or the story of how the demigod Nurr vied with the Sun for dominance of the skies' date=' and was cast down, and how his body formed the Land and his blood formed the Sea, while the Sun was so badly wounded he could no longer remain in the sky indefinitely, but had to rest every day? And how Sun's daughter, Moon, valiantly struggled to provide all the children of the Earth with light herself, while Nurr's temperamental wife Oshin was so embittered by the loss of her husband that she drowned herself in the sea of his blood, becoming one with it? And so on.[/quote']

Ideally, I'd like to have both. But that would be one B-I-G book.

...also cool list-o-stuff!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

Cool story.

 

I recently put my religion document at the bottom of the to-do list, since I've just about storied myself out on the first pantheon. I've decided that, among the worshippers of the second pantheon, the stars don't just form shapes that, uh, exist in a vacuum (?), but they tell stories of the gods. Their mythology is written across the night sky. Unfortunately, I kind of ran out of steam for it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

That's the method that has always provided the most success for me. Which would you rather read-- a table that lists $GODNAME $AREAOFRESPONSIBILITY $SYMBOL $FAVORITECOLOR $ALIGNMENT $POWERS? Or the story of how the demigod Nurr vied with the Sun for dominance of the skies' date=' and was cast down, and how his body formed the Land and his blood formed the Sea, while the Sun was so badly wounded he could no longer remain in the sky indefinitely, but had to rest every day? And how Sun's daughter, Moon, valiantly struggled to provide all the children of the Earth with light herself, while Nurr's temperamental wife Oshin was so embittered by the loss of her husband that she drowned herself in the sea of his blood, becoming one with it? And so on.[/quote']

Well, personally, I like both. That's why each god (as you'll note in the sample I posted above) has at least one myth (and usually more) about him or her in their write-up.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

A few things to add to the outline, which seem rather obvious in retrospect:

 

I. The pantheon

C. Reality

1. Form. Examples:

h) The gods (at least some of them) are natural forces/phenomena which may or may not have consciousness, e.g., there is no "god of the sun" - the sun *is* a god.

 

III. The religion

A. Internal

1. Principles

f) Theology: What the gods are, their nature and aspects.

g) Theology: Afterlife, other "planes" of existance.

 

In some other games that shall remain nameless, the structure of the "multiverse" is a matter of fact, fixed and undisputed. That's not the way it is in the real world, now or at any point in history. And there is no reason why it must be in a fantasy game either. This could prompt adding a whole new heading to this outline: V. The Multiverse/Afterlife/Other Planes of Existance. But I'll leave that for someone else to write, as in doesn't necessarily have to relate directly to the gods.

[Curufea]

Re: Stuff to Make Up about the Gods

 

I'm working on a pantheon at the moment - updating/changing my variant Western Shores setting.

 

As I've described the various major Human nations on the WS as having names that are either Norse, Anglosaxon, or Germanic - it follows that their language is similar and so are the Gods. So the WS Gods are the Aesir of Asgard - give or take the extra ones/heresies of the Saxons and Goths.

 

However WS is a unique mixture of "the Gods are fact" and "the Gods are fiction". There are five, previously mortal, Gods - who gained their power through a rather involved spiritual and magical ritual. The five are replaced by apprentices (or Avatars) every five thousand years. They actually represent abstract concepts - Good, Evil, Order, Chaos and the strongest being Balance, a mixture of the other four.

 

Now- what the priests and worshippers see is the "real thing". But belief shaping one (or more) of the five into what they want. Belief and magic/mana are heavily linked in my WS setting.

 

There are no real Gods in the usual sense - ie they created the world and everything comes from them. But rather the reverse.

 

I only really have two problems with the Norse religion here-

1) imagining what a thousand years of civilisation have done to it and make it as Catholic as possible (otherwise they won't oppress the non-religious magic users the way I want them too) and

2) redefining the spells from the sourcebooks to fit the pantheon.