Feedback wanted on this background idea

[Maccabe]

The "war on terror" ended but there was a depression, worse then that of 1929. This was a total economic collapse ! The United States fell apart into disassociated cities with little to no central government.

Sometime later the Players will enter one such town in an effort to;

reclaim that greatness that has fallen into darkness.

 

Campaign name: RECLAMATION

Power Level: HERO (powerful)

 

I'm thinking a Shadowrun-ish style game.

 

It still needs work but I wanted to see how it looked so far.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Do you think it's going to be more Post-Apoc or Cyber HERO?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

From a "concept" perspective, it sounds really cool to me. What I'd be most interested in is the fractured political situations. Local and state governments vying for power... all the various ideologies that would have established themselves in communities (the isolationists, the states rights, the federalists, whatever)... most of them stemming out of current day politics... so dealing with all the special interests. Have racial factions become the norm? What about the current liberal/conservative split?

 

With this background, the number of opposing parties that could be trying to use our heroes for their own benefit... do the heroes take sides? Do they heroes have their own agenda they want to lead? What about international forces (because the biggest concern with a world wide depression that fractured the world is China. This country currently holds the US dollar hostage... and is a country used to suffering brutal economic conditions, then pulling itself up into a united front... your scenario... IMO... paves the way for a Chinese dominated future world society.)

 

Then, to Citizen's questions... what is the tech? Cyber or post-apocalyptic? Are there areas of development, likely controlled by corporate archologies or local governments that control important natural resources? (In the coming years, one of the most important natural resources to control will be fresh water. Look to areas like MI, OH, WIS, NY and Canada (the Great Lakes areas) to be highly prized in a fractured America.)

 

This actually sounds really friggin' cool... but might require a LOT of work on the GM's part to develop a believable and fully fleshed out world.

 

Oh yeah... what about communication? The internet? Is society still connected, or have we retreated from the online information society of today? That will be a HUGE issue.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop. I hope more folks contribute ideas.

[gewing]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

sounds like the world of Crimson skies 70 years late.

[Sociotard]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Since the world economies are so interlinked now, don't forget to comment on how this depression affected other nations.

[Agent 13]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I recommend a steady diet of spaghetti westerns and wandering samurai films.

[Toadmaster]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Sounds similar to Scout too, a Dark Horse comic from the 80's. I could see some potential for a modern western or the world from Mad Max or CarWars, moderate tech, fairly modern communities but vast areas of no mans land in between.

[Susano]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

You might want to look at KAZEI 5. Although it may be a bit high-tech (not to mention the strong anime-feel) for your campaign idea.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

are there going to regional alliances or anything, or is pretty much everybody for themselves?

how far have things degenerated?

what caused the collapse itself?

your major transportation hubs are going to be especially important

whats the fuel situation?

whats the situation as far as utilities?

 

I would think some parts of the US would pull together seperately and go back to business or at least tighten things up faster

Texas and Utah come to mind right off the bat

theres any number of stories about post collapse governments in both areas

what about a new version of the Confederacy for that matter?

[SirLordCoake]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I'm with RDU on this. Invariably, in such a scenario, the US would sell out to another country in order to keep what little it has going. It would probably be a good idea to decide which nation comes to the fore, and like RDU said, China is a good place to start. The Chinese influence would quickly be felt in the former United States... now the... the United States of China?

 

Morality will fly out the window as people try to survive, the word "crime" will be totally 100% subjective. The players are gonna have their hands full. What is the state of the United States Military in this? Is there Civil War as one area has more resources then many others? National Lockdown? Knowing our past history, the US is very likely to divert a majority of whatever resources it has to the Military, just to maintain order while it digs out of this economic hole. What does this mean for the hero's? Are the hero's going to be seen as hero's, or just another group of supers looking to survive on what's left.

 

This scenarion scares me... gotta think happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts...

 

 

JT

[Barton]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I'm with RDU on this. Invariably, in such a scenario, the US would sell out to another country in order to keep what little it has going. It would probably be a good idea to decide which nation comes to the fore, and like RDU said, China is a good place to start. The Chinese influence would quickly be felt in the former United States... now the... the United States of China?

 

Morality will fly out the window as people try to survive, the word "crime" will be totally 100% subjective. The players are gonna have their hands full. What is the state of the United States Military in this? Is there Civil War as one area has more resources then many others? National Lockdown? Knowing our past history, the US is very likely to divert a majority of whatever resources it has to the Military, just to maintain order while it digs out of this economic hole. What does this mean for the hero's? Are the hero's going to be seen as hero's, or just another group of supers looking to survive on what's left.

 

This scenarion scares me... gotta think happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts...

 

 

JT

Problem with China being on top of the world, they depend on exports to USA to grow at 7% a year, they would have some trouble also. I think a worldwide depression with NO ONE on top would be more likely.

[Badger]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Why do I get the feeling my redneck neighbors will pull out their Stars & Bars, sing Dixie, and yell "the South will rise again"

 

But the main question going through my mind would be, How fractured is it? Just 3 or 4 regions, like say the red states and blue states split with each other or something. Or is it every state for itself. Is it even worse, every county/city/town for itself?

 

A secondary one would be: What are the relations between the fractured mini-nations. Do they trade freely with each other, or hate each other's guts to the point of war? Somewhere in between.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Problem with China being on top of the world' date=' they depend on exports to USA to grow at 7% a year, they would have some trouble also. I think a worldwide depression with NO ONE on top would be more likely.[/quote']

 

Oh I agree... in the short term.

 

But look at China's millenia long history of rise and fall... this is a deep culture used to handling horrible economic and social shocks where millions die... then slowly rebuilding, unifying again, and becoming an empire/superpower, what have you.

 

Managed by a few farsighted individuals... a worldwide depression that fractured the global systems would be devastating... but CHINA would be the most likely to come out the other side strong and unified and dominant.

 

This is what I think is a possible scenario in the real world... let alone a gaming world. Also, while I don't know about the US "selling out" the simple fact of reality is that China holds the value of the dollar hostage, as it has bought up the greatest amount of our currency, to prop it up against 750 billion dollar deficits. All they have to do is decide to sell off, or simply move to where many other world banks are, and slow their purchases of the US dollar and instead buy more Euros (or whatever) and the dollar continues to fall in value... possibly beyond recovery. Yes, the collapse of the US economy would cause world chaos... but China would potentially benefit from that in the end.

[altamaros]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I'm with RDU on this. Invariably' date=' in such a scenario, the US would sell out to another country in order to keep what little it has going. It would probably be a good idea to decide which nation comes to the fore, and like RDU said, China is a good place to start. [/quote']

 

My thoughts : the world top three would certainly be

China and Russia as the major political powers

India for tech

and maybe Brazil.

 

The EU, Canada and Australia would probably follow the US in their fall since the interconnexion of their economies although the fall could perhaps be avoided by an alliance of the arab oil-providing countries and the other oil-consuming nations (but i doubt)

 

I 've got no idea about Mexico (i don't know this country enough)

 

i think nothing would probably change much in Subsaharian Africa except that without the american and european financial helps and influence; the number of ruthless dictators and civil wars would probably skyrocket.

 

Maghreb would probably take care of itself.

 

just some thoughts

[RDU Neil]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

My thoughts : the world top three would certainly be

China and Russia as the major political powers

India for tech

and maybe Brazil.

 

The EU, Canada and Australia would probably follow the US in their fall since the interconnexion of their economies although the fall could perhaps be avoided by an alliance of the arab oil-providing countries and the other oil-consuming nations (but i doubt)

 

I 've got no idea about Mexico (i don't know this country enough)

 

i think nothing would probably change much in Subsaharian Africa except that without the american and european financial helps and influence; the number of ruthless dictators and civil wars would probably skyrocket.

 

Maghreb would probably take care of itself.

 

just some thoughts

 

Good points. The only one I disagree with is India... as I'd bet a fracturing world scenario would escalate to a short range nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, and neither would have much infrastructure left... what was there would be spent on a grinding ground war over Kashmir and the like. (Not to mention all the internal issues with Hindu extremists and Muslim insurgents.)

 

Brasil... now THERE is an interesting idea. I like that... Costa Rica... some of the other more stable South American countries. As long as they weren't overwhelmed by some external enemy, I think this is likely.

 

Mexico would split into Northern and Southern factions... lots of internal strife.

 

Again... all IMO.

[Susano]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

*Susano busy takes notes for his KAZEI 5 world.*

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I agree, South America would be a huge powerhouse in the coming of a global meltdown. Highly developed (Buenos Aires is HUGE), plenty of natural resources, and yet a large culture used to living without technology. I think SA would play a huge role in the world, if only as a continent almost unaffected. A bastion of civilization, if you will.

[gewing]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

JMFO

China is looking at some big problems in terms of infrastructure and energy demand, as well as the problem of the vast numbers of rural people who are NOT benefitting from the economic boom...

 

Oh I agree... in the short term.

 

But look at China's millenia long history of rise and fall... this is a deep culture used to handling horrible economic and social shocks where millions die... then slowly rebuilding, unifying again, and becoming an empire/superpower, what have you.

 

Managed by a few farsighted individuals... a worldwide depression that fractured the global systems would be devastating... but CHINA would be the most likely to come out the other side strong and unified and dominant.

 

This is what I think is a possible scenario in the real world... let alone a gaming world. Also, while I don't know about the US "selling out" the simple fact of reality is that China holds the value of the dollar hostage, as it has bought up the greatest amount of our currency, to prop it up against 750 billion dollar deficits. All they have to do is decide to sell off, or simply move to where many other world banks are, and slow their purchases of the US dollar and instead buy more Euros (or whatever) and the dollar continues to fall in value... possibly beyond recovery. Yes, the collapse of the US economy would cause world chaos... but China would potentially benefit from that in the end.

[gewing]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

If anything did split, one of the BIG problems would be California. Lots of tech, lots of people, Nowhere near enough water for LA. This could lead to some "Interesting" problems.

 

 

 

Why do I get the feeling my redneck neighbors will pull out their Stars & Bars, sing Dixie, and yell "the South will rise again"

 

But the main question going through my mind would be, How fractured is it? Just 3 or 4 regions, like say the red states and blue states split with each other or something. Or is it every state for itself. Is it even worse, every county/city/town for itself?

 

A secondary one would be: What are the relations between the fractured mini-nations. Do they trade freely with each other, or hate each other's guts to the point of war? Somewhere in between.

[LoresLost]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Here is a paranoid take on China's economic asperations from the real world.http://www.321energy.com/editorials/winston/winston020905.html

 

The article claims the US is being manuvered to a fall by China. I think it fits well with the over all theme of the thread and can give some food for thought.

 

I believe that China would quickly be on top after a total economic collapse.

 

In the United States, I Would see the Internet remaining up in rural areas because of wind farms and other alternet electrical generation but Interstate shipping in the US crawling to halt as the cost of petro products shoot through the roof. Major cities would have issues with food and power. Millitia groups would try to take over some of the least populated states, only to be suprised by the strong resistance by some of the population (Native Americans and the Harty folk who always lived out there would not like these outsiders telling them what to do.)

 

These things are what come to mind.

 

Edited For Clearity (I Hope)

[Agemegos]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

My thoughts : the world top three would certainly be

China and Russia as the major political powers

 

Not Russia. Russia is on its way to 3rd world status.

 

Maybe not China. China would go into a severe recession if the USA stopped buying Chinese manufactures. And the Chinese banks are holding huge portfolios of US Treasury bills which would become worthless if the US collapsed. The Chinese economy would be in a mess and the Chinese government would lose a huge amount of face. Rebellion, revolution, and civil war would be on the cards.

 

India for tech

 

Like China, maybe not. India is sitting on another huge pile of US IOUs. And has old grudges and outstanding border disputes with its nuclear-armed neighbours China and Pakistan.

 

and maybe Brazil.

 

The EU, Canada and Australia would probably follow the US in their fall since the interconnexion of their economies although the fall could perhaps be avoided by an alliance of the arab oil-providing countries and the other oil-consuming nations (but i doubt)

 

I agree here. Everyone is going into recession, except those who are too poor to trade. Who bounces back and when is anybody's guess.

 

However, I don't think that any of the Arab oil-producing countries is going to last. Without massive oil revenues their regimes will all collapse: if the Muslim theocrats don't get them, the democratic reformers will. Syria will almost certainly attack Israel and get thumped.

 

i think nothing would probably change much in Subsaharian Africa except that without the american and european financial helps and influence; the number of ruthless dictators and civil wars would probably skyrocket.

 

They could only get more ruthless dictators if there were more countries to dictate. And the main effect of disappearing aid would be on the dictator's Swiss bank accounts. AIDS is still a very big problem, supported by war and bad government.

[altamaros]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

Not Russia. Russia is on its way to 3rd world status.

i'm unsure. Russia released its grasp on the former USSR block only due to western pressure. If a world economic collapse were to happen; it could return to a socialist authoritian state by taking as an example of the failure of capitalism.

Remember that old soviet reflexes are still there, even under Putin (especially under Putin, this guy led KGB after all)

 

Maybe not China. (1)China would go into a severe recession if the USA stopped buying Chinese manufactures. (2)And the Chinese banks are holding huge portfolios of US Treasury bills which would become worthless if the US collapsed. The Chinese economy would be in a mess and the Chinese government would lose a huge amount of face. (3)Rebellion' date=' revolution, and civil war would be on the cards.[/quote']

i agree on the arguments but i disagree on the conclusions:

For point 1), it could be, yes, but you forget that USA are hardly the sole customer for China goods. The loss of USA would be a problem but not that hard.

For point 2), it's actually true; but if you took an interest on economic press releases recently; you may have read that several of the major holes of US treasury bills (among them, China and South Korea IIRC) are talking about diversify their holdings precisely to avoid such a scenario.

For point 3), considering the weight of the state authority on the average chinese, i don't think the chinese would revolt just for a bad economy. We're talking about the country of "great leap forward" (remember Mao and the worst failure of the socialist system in its history: i don't know how many dead in famines and nobody moved)

 

Like China' date=' maybe not. India is sitting on another huge pile of US IOUs. And has old grudges and outstanding border disputes with its nuclear-armed neighbours China and Pakistan.[/quote']

 

Well, about China; its conflict with India is mainly due to India' support over an independent Tibet. it seems (check in the international press, i've read articles about this last week) that even the exiled government of Tibet and the Dalai Lama himself would be ready to give up their claims of independence over a agreement of autonomy and sovereignity so i guess these conflicts are not important enough to really justify a war.

 

About Pakistan. I doubt; India is clearly superior to Pakistan in so many ways (economy, army, population, influence) that the Pakistani are sure to be fried if they attempt to go to a nuclear war. At best, they would destroy 2-3% of the indian territory (and i exagerate) and would probably not be able to seize control after all due to their backfire. On the other hand, India has enough power to destroy a good 10% of pakistani territory AND seize control after. besides on the international ground, India has more influence, a better economy (just to remind that to other countries when it comes to "who do you prefer?") a bigger population.

Besides the sunni gulf monarchies, Pakistan can only count on itself.

 

for the US IOU: like for China, don't overestimate it. India has survived to countless difficulties not to depend on foreign help anymore.

Why do you think India has refused the international help during the Tsunami ?

pride ? not exactly, they had the material, they had the cash. they can go by themselves.

Secondly, even with a crash of the US; it would probably causes a crash in the indian "upper" industries (tourism, engeenering...) but the traditional industries (agriculture, textile ), still important, would not be that affected.

India would not probably get itself out of this like a rose but it would not be apocalypse.

 

However' date=' I don't think that any of the Arab oil-producing countries is going to last. Without massive oil revenues their regimes will all collapse: if the Muslim theocrats don't get them, the democratic reformers will. Syria will almost certainly attack Israel and get thumped.[/quote']

hmmm.

(that brings the question, how long before the world oil reserves be depleted ? interesting idea for a global collapse)

USA are the prime consumer of oil in the world : ok

=> if the US collapsed, the oil producers can't sell so much anymore

==> the prize of the barrel decreases.

===>other massive consumers (china is the second biggest consumer) save money.

====>Their economy is better than ever.

 

They could only get more ruthless dictators if there were more countries to dictate. And the main effect of disappearing aid would be on the dictator's Swiss bank accounts. AIDS is still a very big problem' date=' supported by war and bad government.[/quote']Shame of me, i forgot AIDS!!. Yep, it could turn pretty bad there as well.

On the plus side, wildlife will be better without humanity.

[Red Knight]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

I could see the US fracturing into regional "Mega States". To protect themselves, they would unite and create giant-sized states that could help themselves out. These states would then start competing for resources. With a central government in collapse, you can bet there would be a power struggle to becme the strongest, hence the ruling power.

 

Law would become, for the most part, regionalized. Before English Common Law came about, there was no set laws that governed everybody. I can see the Mega States holding onto the Constitution as a base to build from but they could then add their own flavor. For instance, Texas is pro-death penalty. Their laws would reflect this and maybe their "cowboy" history. I lived in Texas and there is still a very strong frontier mentality.

 

I can also see these Mega States hiring/recruiting their own Supers to protect their interests.

[gewing]

Re: Feedback wanted on this background idea

 

IMO NEITHER India nor Pakistan would survive an exchange intact. A few nukes on either could disrupt the transportation grid and utilities, etc enough that things would go to hell in a handbasket. And India without the ability to import food... or transport it...

 

 

i'm unsure. Russia released its grasp on the former USSR block only due to western pressure. If a world economic collapse were to happen; it could return to a socialist authoritian state by taking as an example of the failure of capitalism.

Remember that old soviet reflexes are still there, even under Putin (especially under Putin, this guy led KGB after all)

 

 

i agree on the arguments but i disagree on the conclusions:

For point 1), it could be, yes, but you forget that USA are hardly the sole customer for China goods. The loss of USA would be a problem but not that hard.

For point 2), it's actually true; but if you took an interest on economic press releases recently; you may have read that several of the major holes of US treasury bills (among them, China and South Korea IIRC) are talking about diversify their holdings precisely to avoid such a scenario.

For point 3), considering the weight of the state authority on the average chinese, i don't think the chinese would revolt just for a bad economy. We're talking about the country of "great leap forward" (remember Mao and the worst failure of the socialist system in its history: i don't know how many dead in famines and nobody moved)

 

 

 

Well, about China; its conflict with India is mainly due to India' support over an independent Tibet. it seems (check in the international press, i've read articles about this last week) that even the exiled government of Tibet and the Dalai Lama himself would be ready to give up their claims of independence over a agreement of autonomy and sovereignity so i guess these conflicts are not important enough to really justify a war.

 

About Pakistan. I doubt; India is clearly superior to Pakistan in so many ways (economy, army, population, influence) that the Pakistani are sure to be fried if they attempt to go to a nuclear war. At best, they would destroy 2-3% of the indian territory (and i exagerate) and would probably not be able to seize control after all due to their backfire. On the other hand, India has enough power to destroy a good 10% of pakistani territory AND seize control after. besides on the international ground, India has more influence, a better economy (just to remind that to other countries when it comes to "who do you prefer?") a bigger population.

Besides the sunni gulf monarchies, Pakistan can only count on itself.

 

for the US IOU: like for China, don't overestimate it. India has survived to countless difficulties not to depend on foreign help anymore.

Why do you think India has refused the international help during the Tsunami ?

pride ? not exactly, they had the material, they had the cash. they can go by themselves.

Secondly, even with a crash of the US; it would probably causes a crash in the indian "upper" industries (tourism, engeenering...) but the traditional industries (agriculture, textile ), still important, would not be that affected.

India would not probably get itself out of this like a rose but it would not be apocalypse.

 

 

hmmm.

(that brings the question, how long before the world oil reserves be depleted ? interesting idea for a global collapse)

USA are the prime consumer of oil in the world : ok

=> if the US collapsed, the oil producers can't sell so much anymore

==> the prize of the barrel decreases.

===>other massive consumers (china is the second biggest consumer) save money.

====>Their economy is better than ever.

 

Shame of me, i forgot AIDS!!. Yep, it could turn pretty bad there as well.

On the plus side, wildlife will be better without humanity.