Rifts HERO

[Guest Dr. Dementos]

I have been trying to come up with a systematic approach to conversion.

 

I thought of Mega-Damage be a +2 Power Advantage that multiplies all BODY damage by 100 before subtracting defenses (it doesn't affect STUN).

 

Then I created Mega-Defense (= MDC), a +1 Power Advantage that divides all BODY damage by 100 before subtracting defenses (it is not Hardened and does not affect STUN)

 

I am also trying to devise just how Magic, Psionics, and Cybernetics work, and if I should create Package Deals or let PCs build on concepts.

 

Any Ideas?

[Curufea]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I'd lose the entire megadamage concept. Didn't like it in Robotech, don't like it in any other Palladium. It is a shortcut for not thinking about material structures properly.

Just because cartoonists take shortcuts by not showing slight damage by small arms, doesn't mean a roleplaying game needs to be this abstract too.

 

Just add more rows to the materials table in Hero for the DEF of superdense hightech materials.

Otherwise, you would have to redesign all weapons.

[Old Man]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

The problem with Paladium was that they only had to-hit rolls and damage rolls.

 

HERO has to-hit rolls and damage rolls but the target has defenses to resist damage. So super dense, molecular bonded, alien tech materials could easily be represented with a combination of High Def, Hardened, Damage Reduction, Absorption, or whatever.

 

Do away with mega damage. A mega damage weapon is just a gun that has a big punch.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Here are some previous threads for you to peruse:

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4648

[Solomon]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

What Curufea and Shadowpup said. Don't bother with MegaDamage at all - it's meant to represent large or tough structures that are hard to damage with small arms, so it's easier to just use high defenses. Plus, I think it's usually a Bad Idea to 'port game mechanics directly into HERO.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Like the others, I suggest you drop the entire concept of MegaDamage. Its silly. The reason why Palladium came up with it is because their system was inadequate to represent scaling properly without creating a broken mechanic of that sort.

 

Hero can do "MegaDamage" without changing its nature.

 

Simply add Damage Reduction to armor and vehicles that are supposed to be MegaDamage structures.

 

High tech weapons that do "MegaDamage" can be written up with a custom Advantage called No Damage Reduction which means Damage Reduction does not apply to that attack. (I call it a +1/2 Advantage).

 

Vehicles and Equipment with lots of MDC in RIFTS can be represented with 50% to 75% Damage Reduction. Makes them very tough to take out with conventional weapons, but any MegaDamage weapon can do so normally (since the Damage Reduction doesn't apply to that weapon)

 

There ya go...

[Nevenall]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I think you can simulate the flavor of Rifts without a Megadamage advantage. I would suggest using 75% damage reduction and a high amount of body to simulate megadefense. DR75% divides all damage by 4, so just 20 body becomes the equivelent of 80.

Once you have a good scale of defenses you can figure out how much damage you want weapons to do.

You can make weapons as powerful as they need to be. What they actually cost in the end doesn't really matter. And you can reduce dice rolling by using multiples. If a gun does 20d6 killing, roll 2d6x10.

If I recall though, some characters in rifts have natural abilities that cause megadamage, like can't you play a dragon?

That's more difficult because why be a dragon and pay character points for weapons when you can get a gun for free. Of course you can't loose your claws, usually.

I gues you could do it two ways. You could have all characters pay some kind of points for attacks and defenses, perhaps 1 CP = 5 Points for MegaAbilities. Or you could give just the natural weapon characters a break, say charge them 1/5 of the cost or less, or give them their natural abilities for free. Or just give all the characters so many points they can afford 75% damage reduction and the weapons to affect it.

[Nevenall]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

High tech weapons that do "MegaDamage" can be written up with a custom Advantage called No Damage Reduction which means Damage Reduction does not apply to that attack. (I call it a +1/2 Advantage).

 

That's a good idea, but intstead of an advantage on weapons, why not put a limitation on the Damage Reduction? Not vs MegaDamage weapons -1/2? Or maybe -1 considering the prevelance of MD weapons.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I wouldn't even bother making that much of a distinction between MDC and SDC. A LAW rocket does MDC in Palladium, right? Well, it does 4d6KAP in Hero. Higher damage MDC weapons could be represented just fine by making them at least as powerful. And for MDC defenses, you just need 20 Hardened or more. No piddly non-magic non-psychic non-ubertech sword will hurt that.

 

I seem to remember the old threads having a lot on this. Worth looking at.

 

And in reference to the Dragon vs Glitterboy equipment issue, I'd suggest making a Rifts game at least a superheroic level pay-for-equipment type campaign.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Here are some previous threads for you to peruse:

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4648

 

Yes, that contains or will take you to just about everything that's been done on the subject of conversion. No small amount, actually.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

That's a good idea' date=' but intstead of an advantage on weapons, why not put a limitation on the Damage Reduction? Not vs MegaDamage weapons -1/2? Or maybe -1 considering the prevelance of MD weapons.[/quote']

 

Thats a good idea.

 

Also, Mega Damage weapons can be written up as AVLD-Does Body (+2 1/2 right?) and the defense is "Mega Defenses" or any defense power with the "Mega Damage Capacity" Special Effect. That way normal (non MDC) defenses are useless against them, but MDC defenses work normally.

 

Booyah! I think we nailed it on the head right here....

 

[Old Man]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

If you're going the AVLD route, just make the defense, Power Defense. Normals can't get it, it has to be built into armor or some such.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Weapons shouldn't require an Advantage (AVLD, defense Mega Damage defense) if the Defenses take a Limitation (not versus Mega Damage weapons).

 

Weapons take Armor Piercing, but Defenses don't take "Only Half Applies Versus AP Weapons".

 

So, choose whether to apply the point alterations to either the weapons or the defenses, but not both.

[The Hyborian]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I always like the Rifts setting, but I thought he rules were horribly broken and utterly unbalanced. Observe the following first game session.

 

Player A: I want to play a GlitterBoy.

Player B: I want to play a Full Cyborg

Player C: I want to play a wilderness scout.

 

Any attack that would even slightly dammage player A or B's character would instakill one-hit-dead player C's character. What goon wrote this thing? Ever heard of "game balance" Its a bit like saying, ok, you build your Hero charcter with 1000 points, you build yours with 125, and I will come up with an encounter that will challenge you both.

 

Riiiiighhhht.

 

 

My advice: Dump megadammage. Its just a really, really big attack. Decide going in if you are going to play the big nasty combat monsters, or the more noncombat characters, and dont try to mix and match. You are in for misery if you do.

 

The Hyborian

[Old Man]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

 

Any attack that would even slightly dammage player A or B's character would instakill one-hit-dead player C's character. What goon wrote this thing? Ever heard of "game balance" Its a bit like saying, ok, you build your Hero charcter with 1000 points, you build yours with 125, and I will come up with an encounter that will challenge you both.

 

Pretty close. The only thing I can think of to do so would be a swarm of goons armed with light laser pistols and a handful of rockets.

 

I think the Glitterboy can still only kill one guy with a shot right? I have no clue, I haven't looked at the book in years.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Weapons shouldn't require an Advantage (AVLD, defense Mega Damage defense) if the Defenses take a Limitation (not versus Mega Damage weapons).

 

Weapons take Armor Piercing, but Defenses don't take "Only Half Applies Versus AP Weapons".

 

So, choose whether to apply the point alterations to either the weapons or the defenses, but not both.

 

why not both?

 

Here's how it'll work:

 

MDC structures have Damage Reduction with a limitation: Not vs MDC weapons. That means any normal weapon used to attack the armor has its effectiveness significantly reduced. MDC weapons don't have that problem.

 

Now, to differentiate between normal (SDC) weapons and Mega (MDC) weapons, Mega weapons get AVLD...the "Limited Defense" being the MDC sfx. That means that normal armor and defenses don't protect against Mega-weapons at all.

 

Now with these two (relatively simple) adjustments, we get:

 

MDC Armor: practically ignores the effects of normal weapons, though Mega-weapons affect it normally.

 

MDC Weapons: Completely blasts through normal armor, though MDC armor protects against them normally.

 

Thats pretty much what we're trying to go for, right?

 

With these constructs, your game will begin to look like a proper RIFTS game.

 

For example; a party of characters are travelling the countryside in an armored transport, unfortunately, its not an MDC armored transport. They get attacked by bandits, armed with sub-machine guns. Not a single one of the SMG's (which do 1D6+1K damage at Autofire-10) can get past the transports Def of 8. However, the leader of the bandits has an MDC blaster pistol, which does 2D6K(MD). A few well-placed shots and the armored transport which previously deflected a few dozen SMG rounds, gets utterly destroyed by an MD Blaster pistol.....

 

 

That's RIFTS in a nutshell!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Pretty close. The only thing I can think of to do so would be a swarm of goons armed with light laser pistols and a handful of rockets.

 

I think the Glitterboy can still only kill one guy with a shot right? I have no clue, I haven't looked at the book in years.

 

The Glitterboy "Boom-Gun" is like a big MD-shotgun. It fires a slew of projectiles simultaneously.

 

However no Glitterboy in his right mind is going to waste ammo on normal troops, even if they are wearing MDC body armor. That ammo is rare and expensive so he's going to save his shots for Mecha and Powered Armor. Anything else is simply a waste.

 

He could simply engage in Hand-to-Hand combat against them and eventually kill them all before they could whittle away at that massive 770MDC armor...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Of course, send in a Juicer with a pair of Vibro-claws and the Glitterboy is in trouble.

 

Something similar happened in a RIFTS game I ran. An evil Shifter called in a huge, nasty Demon from Beyond-The-Pale and it proceeded to run amok and kill dozens of Coalition Troops and good-guys too. (Talk about a chaotic battle).

 

The party's Juicer went nuts, forgot he had a nice big Plasma rifle on him and went absolutely Wolverine on the demon. Getting upwards of 12 attacks per turn, with an auto-dodge, it didn't take long for the Juicer to whittle the demons 1000 MDC down to nothing.

 

Cool battle-scene though. My players dug it, even the ones that died...

[tgrandjean]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Just a bit of advice...

If you aren't going the Damage Reduction of AVLD route, simply add 8 DC to whatever the appropriate sized weapon.

For Defense, add 8 DEF for MDC armor.

 

This means an average MDC pistol (Wilks probably) will do 4d6+1 K Energy.

A MDC assault rifle will average 5d6 K, a particle beam rifle 6 1/2d6 K Energy, a tank gun 8 1/2d6 K, etc...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Just a bit of advice...

If you aren't going the Damage Reduction of AVLD route, simply add 8 DC to whatever the appropriate sized weapon.

For Defense, add 8 DEF for MDC armor.

 

This means an average MDC pistol (Wilks probably) will do 4d6+1 K Energy.

A MDC assault rifle will average 5d6 K, a particle beam rifle 6 1/2d6 K Energy, a tank gun 8 1/2d6 K, etc...

 

Geez!

 

whatcha trying to do, kill people?

 

Oh wait, thats what MDC weapons basically did....

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I'm looking into rebuying my Rifts books. When I do so, I'm going to start a very extensive Rifts conversion. However, when I do so, I'm going to ignore many of the mechanics of Rifts, I think. Specifically the Mega Damage aspect of the game. A group of rebels with rocket launchers will be able to down a Glitter Boy if they're able to hide from his Boom Cannon long enough. Rifts is the only game I know where any character can completely ignore another, and I think it's kind of ridiculous.

 

It is hypothetically possible for a naked 1st level D&D fighter with a sword to kill a 20th level fighter decked out in all his regalia. Possible, but not likely.

 

When I do the conversion, I'm going to simply keep the beautiful parts of the world, and ignore the ugliness of the system, even where the system forcibly affected aspects of the world.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I'm looking into rebuying my Rifts books. When I do so' date=' I'm going to start a very extensive Rifts conversion. However, when I do so, I'm going to ignore many of the mechanics of Rifts, I think. Specifically the Mega Damage aspect of the game. A group of rebels with rocket launchers will be able to down a Glitter Boy if they're able to hide from his Boom Cannon long enough. Rifts is the only game I know where any character can [i']completely[/i] ignore another, and I think it's kind of ridiculous.

 

It is hypothetically possible for a naked 1st level D&D fighter with a sword to kill a 20th level fighter decked out in all his regalia. Possible, but not likely.

 

When I do the conversion, I'm going to simply keep the beautiful parts of the world, and ignore the ugliness of the system, even where the system forcibly affected aspects of the world.

 

Thats exactly the way I would do it.

 

I always thought the concept of MDC belonged only in the realm of mecha and starships. It was originally created for the Robotech RPG, but when it was incorperated into RIFTS, they took it to is illogical extreme.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Well, if they didn't add it to at least some fantasy creatures, then the mecha and starships level tech would walk all over everything else*. It's still a broken mechanic, although in such a d20 influenced system, it wouldn't be necessarily easy to come up with one that wouldn't have some kind of kludge about it.

 

 

*The irony of defending game balance in Rifts is not lost on me...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

Well, if they didn't add it to at least some fantasy creatures, then the mecha and starships level tech would walk all over everything else*. It's still a broken mechanic, although in such a d20 influenced system, it wouldn't be necessarily easy to come up with one that wouldn't have some kind of kludge about it.

 

 

*The irony of defending game balance in Rifts is not lost on me...

 

Oh, I don't have a problem with adding MDC to creatures like Dragons or big demons and gods and whatnot, but man-sized creatures shouldn't be MDC constructs.

 

And there should be no man-sized MDC weapons aside from a Big plasma gun or rocket launcher (which should do low MDC damage as well). There should be no MDC pilstols or vibroblades.

 

Adding MDC to a normal scale throws the whole scale balance off completely. Because now you have a normal armored human capable of taking down a 50 foot tall mecha provided he's got enough ammo and a few lucky shots.

 

Nein!

[Rick]

Re: Rifts HERO

 

I'll say it again:

 

Do not convert Game systems or mechanics, Convert source material.

 

So Mega-Damage would go right out the window, just like Level drains from D&D. Those are "Meta-Game" elements not neccessary to reproduce the feel of their source materials.