[Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

[Andrea]

Hi again,

you suggested me to use multipower for my GLue Hero that I've posted in the Hero Rules area and I did my homework, nevertheless I remained with some open questions...

Look at the following example...

 

Multipower Glue Machine 50 Pts

 

Clinging: +9 STR, Real Cost 13 = Cost 1,3

Entangle: 4d6, 20, DEF 4, Are of effect: Cone (+1), Selective (+1/4), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost 30 = Cost 3

Energy Blast: 4d6, Are of effect: Cone (+1), Selective (+1/4), OIF (-1/2), Real Cost 30= 3

Armor 6PD/6ED, OIF (-1/2), Real Cost 12, Cost=1,2

 

First: Is everything OK from a rules point of view ???

Second ( more philosophical): Since I have to pay full active cost for powers in the Fixed Slot Multipower I will not be able to use Armor together with Entangle..

So when I got a phase I should decide to use Armor or Attack, but this is against logic because my armor is always there ( is part of the armor itself), nevetheless If (and I telling tou if) I understand the rules I cannot have the two powers since Energy Blast + Armor = 57.

 

I know I can raise the Multipower pool but this is a question about the method not much about this specific case...

Can you help me ???

Ciao

[JmOz]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

I think the recomendation was for your attacks to go into the MP, I would seriously consider leaving the armor and clinging outside of the MP

 

Not all powers need to go into a MP, for that matter a comon thing to see is for some powers to be in an EC, maily a movement, a defence, maybe a utility power (Telekinesis seems comon here for some reason to me)

 

Then have a MP for attacks...

[MitchellS]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Ok, here's what I can see:

The entangle is wrong. Entangle has a base cost of 10 points per die. With all those advantages that power should cost 90 active points. I think you wanted a 2d6 entangle, not a 4d6 one.

 

Unless you're playing in an extremely low-powered game a 4d6 energy blast will have no effect on an opponent. That attack won't even knockout a normal with an average roll, but the cost is correct.

 

You are correct about the armor. Armor, in this instance, shouldn't be a part of the multipower. It should be purchased outside of the multipower [in most cases armor should never be in a multipower]. Of course you have the same problem with clinging in that you can't cling and fire at the same time too. If your intention is that you can't cling and fire at the same time then it's fine otherwise I'd remove the clinging from the multipower as well; or increase the multipower reserve by 13 points.

 

I'd build the character like this:

 

33 50 point multipower OIF glue gun

3 1- 2d6 entangle [with all advantages]

3 2- 4d6 energy blast [with all advantages]

8 +9 strength clinging OIF glue gun

12 6 pd 6 ed armor OIF glue gun

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

If the armor is always effective, it should not be in the multipower. Powers in a multipower get shut off. Unless you need the glue gun to cling (ie cannot attack while using it, or must attack at reduced effectiveness), I would go with the "attacks" multi and buy Clinging and Armor separately.

 

The nice thing about an Attacks multi is the ability to add moreattacks with xp. For example, wide dispersion might get an Area Effect entangle later.

[gojira]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Hi Andrea, good to see you again.

 

The reason why armour shouldn't be inside the multipower is as a general rule 0 END powers shouldn't be in a power framework, and armour is a 0 END power. The GM can make exceptions of course.

 

(I have old rules books, so this is what I've picked up from reading here. Maybe it's only ECs that have the 0 END rule. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that count.)

 

What you probably should do is instead add a transform power to the multipower. You use your glue gun to "transform" into your hero persona.

 

Then, outside the multipower, by armour with the 1/4 limitation "only in hero ID.".

 

This way, you need to have your glue gun to change into your hero id. Maybe the special effect is that you smear glue all over yourself, which quickly hardens into "armour." If the villian takes away your glue gun, you can't transform (which makes sense). But, if you are already in your hero ID, and you loose your glue gun, your armour doesn't just disappear on the spot like fairy gold, which also makes sense.

 

The way your power is written above by you, if you lose glue gun, your armour just vanishes, which is maybe not what you envisioned.

 

Other than that, I think it's ok. If the special effect of clinging is using your glue gun "on all four" (both hands and feet) then it makes sense to put it into your multipower, as that would definately hinder your ability to shoot at the same time. If the special effect is that you spray glue on your feet, leaving your hands (and glue gun) free, then maybe it makes sense to put the clinging outside your multipower.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

The reason why armour shouldn't be inside the multipower is as a general rule 0 END powers shouldn't be in a power framework, and armour is a 0 END power. The GM can make exceptions of course.

 

(I have old rules books, so this is what I've picked up from reading here. Maybe it's only ECs that have the 0 END rule. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that count.)

 

As you suggest, 0 END powers are only denied to EC's.

[Andrea]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Hi,

thanks for all the replies ( warn me when I'm becoming annoying with my questions...).

 

MitchellS got it right: the entangled is wrong.. so I'd switch to the 2d6 dice solution.

You did enlight me about keeping the armor out of the multipower but the "keep only the attacks in multipower" seems a little bit of a metagaming trick

 

Nevertheless I'd like the rule about having only END costing powers in the framework suggested by gojira ( even if it is an house rule), so I'll stick to this

So in the end I'll keep Armor out and everything else inside ( still not sure about clinging...)

Thanks a lot.. really

Ciao

Andrea

[MitchellS]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

MitchellS got it right: the entangled is wrong.. so I'd switch to the 2d6 dice solution. You did enlight me about keeping the armor out of the multipower but the "keep only the attacks in multipower" seems a little bit of a metagaming trick

It's not metagaming. The version I suggested is actually more expensive. I was basing my comments off the idea of having "fixed" slots. If you are going to have fixed slots you must either limit the multipower to instant powers, increase the multipower pool, or be prepared to have periods where you will only be able to do a single thing which might not be offensive in nature. If you look at the example multipowers which mix instant and constant powers they almost exclusively use variable slots.

 

If the character concept is that he can stick himself to the wall but can't do anything else then having clinging inside of your multipower works. If that's not the concept [assuming you want to be able to while stuck to the wall] then you need to either 1- increase the multipower to the point where you can do two things at once. 2- make your attack powers variable instead of fixed. 3- remove the clinging from the multipower. Those are your only 3 choices.

[MitchellS]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

What you probably should do is instead add a transform power to the multipower. You use your glue gun to "transform" into your hero persona.

 

Then, outside the multipower, by armour with the 1/4 limitation "only in hero ID.".

You don't need a transform to turn into something else. You can turn into something else just by activating your powers. Colossus turns into living steel by activating his powers. He doesn't use a transform on himself. You still get the OIHID limitation because the powers only work when in that form, not all the time.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Hi,

thanks for all the replies ( warn me when I'm becoming annoying with my questions...).

As long as you're asking meaningful, intelligent questions and don't start a rant about how your way must be the official way, we're unlikely to get annoyed with you.

 

You'll find that people around here love to talk, and to show off their knowledge and experience. A very good way for them to do that is to answer questions like yours.

 

So I think you're safe.

[Andrea]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

It's not metagaming. The version I suggested is actually more expensive. QUOTE]

 

I was not referring to your proposal directly but to some innuendos I got around the forum and in the various responses...

 

I'll stick to the solution to have clinging inside and not attack while clinging. I dont' want to use variable multipower because I banned from my first campaign all the things that have a big STOP ! before...

 

I'd like to keep things simple at first...

Ciao

Andrea

[MitchellS]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

It's not metagaming. The version I suggested is actually more expensive. QUOTE]

 

I was not referring to your proposal directly but to some innuendos I got around the forum and in the various responses...

 

I'll stick to the solution to have clinging inside and not attack while clinging. I dont' want to use variable multipower because I banned from my first campaign all the things that have a big STOP ! before...

 

I'd like to keep things simple at first...

Ciao

Andrea

No problem. I've done the same thing a time or two. Just so you know though, variable slots don't have a STOP next to them.

[JmOz]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Hi,

thanks for all the replies ( warn me when I'm becoming annoying with my questions...).

 

MitchellS got it right: the entangled is wrong.. so I'd switch to the 2d6 dice solution.

You did enlight me about keeping the armor out of the multipower but the "keep only the attacks in multipower" seems a little bit of a metagaming trick

 

Nevertheless I'd like the rule about having only END costing powers in the framework suggested by gojira ( even if it is an house rule), so I'll stick to this

So in the end I'll keep Armor out and everything else inside ( still not sure about clinging...)

Thanks a lot.. really

Ciao

Andrea

 

No, the following is metagaming:

 

2u 20/20 Force Field: Hardened; 4 5-min Recoverable Charges(-1/4); alblative (body only, -1/2), OIF (-1/2).

 

Place this in your MP, first phase (you can even abort to it) you activate it then you can switch to other powers in your MP freely.

 

F/X: You have a special agent that let's you turn it back into glue from the hard casing it is, after the battle you gather it up again

 

Uncontrolable condition: solution being applied

 

Effective character building is not the same thing as metagaming

 

For the record: I don't suggest using the above: It is 100% book legal, and EXTREMLY MUNCHKINY

[gojira]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

You don't need a transform to turn into something else. You can turn into something else just by activating your powers. Colossus turns into living steel by activating his powers. He doesn't use a transform on himself. You still get the OIHID limitation because the powers only work when in that form' date=' not all the time.[/quote']

 

Back in the old days, there was this power Called instant change

Instant Change

This power allows a hero to instantly change from a Secret Identity to superhero form and back again. The hero can change back into the clothes he was wearing for 5 Power Points, or he can change into any set of clothes he wants for 10 Power Points. This is a useful Power for getting your hero into the fight without the awkward search for a telephone booth or a restroom.

 

That's what I was refering to. Note this implies a costume change (Colossus doesn't change his clothes when he transforms) but since Armour is usually an actual physical thing, I thought it was appropriate. All based on assumed SFX, of course.

 

And I'd thought that Instant Change had been moved to the more generic title of a Transform, but perhaps not.

[MitchellS]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Back in the old days, there was this power Called instant change

 

 

That's what I was refering to. Note this implies a costume change (Colossus doesn't change his clothes when he transforms) but since Armour is usually an actual physical thing, I thought it was appropriate. All based on assumed SFX, of course.

 

And I'd thought that Instant Change had been moved to the more generic title of a Transform, but perhaps not.

As your post indicates instant change's purpose was always only to change into and out of a costume. It never had anything to do with changing/transforming bodies. And yes, transform is now how you do instant clothing changes but, again, that has nothing to do with transforming a body in any way. If you want to turn into something else [metal, stone, air, demon, etc.] you just do it by activating the appropriate powers not by basing it off of a transformation power of some type.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: [Newbie] Problem with Fixed Slot Multipower

 

Changing into a super-powered form (as Colossus does) is, as noted, more the effect of turning your Powers on, and this can be represented with the Only In Hero ID (OIHID) limitation.

 

In the case of someone like Captain "Shazam!" Marvel, you can also add "Incantations, Only to Start (-1/4)" on all the powers he has in his super-powered state. Or you may choose to represent that as a Multiform with that limitation.