Critical Sweep?

[Hyper-Man]

I just finished watching an episode of Teen Titans where Cyborg was stuck in the past fighting dozens of green badguys with a sword instead of his sonic blaster due to power consumption issues. He was taking down 3-4 badguys with every swing. How many seemed to be a result of how hard he swinged the sword as much as how accurately. He did not appear to be making a conscious decision on how many badguys he was trying to take down with each swing.

 

Current Sweep rules don't really address this type of situation very well. The more common example of this has Cyborg or other Titans (or Justice Leaguers for that matter) fighting with similar methods vs. robots or aliens (where use of lethal force is normaly not an issue).

 

My first thought on handling this in an organized manner was to incorporate some type of critical hit mechanic but I know there are many balance dangers in doing so. I am curious to see how others have handled this if at all.

 

HM

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Critical Hit rules have been published in both The Ultimate Martial Artist and Fantasy Hero. Check either supplement for the "official" (though still optional as always) rules for Critical Hits. They work really well.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Critical Hit rules have been published in both The Ultimate Martial Artist and Fantasy Hero. Check either supplement for the "official" (though still optional as always) rules for Critical Hits. They work really well.

 

I understand the published optional rules quite well as I have both books you mentioned. They only deal with extra damage done per one particular hit, not taking out large numbers of 'cannon-fodder' opponents.

 

HM

[Eosin]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Also see follow through attack in FH.

 

On the OTH, maybe he just has 6 levels to offset sweep penalties and a massive strength to back up that 1.5d5 HKA.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Also see follow through attack in FH.

 

On the OTH, maybe he just has 6 levels to offset sweep penalties and a massive strength to back up that 1.5d5 HKA.

Considering how often the Teen Titans fight mooks and hordes of robots, I just figure Cyborg has Area Effect (Arm's Reach), and the sword just provided him with an sfx for 1/2" of Stretching. Whammo! Six mooks/robots/zombies at once!

 

Or, alternatively, it was just a cartoon.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Yeah. With an AE-1Hex(+1/2) X2 area(+1/4) added to his HA or HKA, one single attack roll could take out half a dozen enemies in one swing if the damage rolled is high enough. (with Cyborg's STR in all likelyhood it will be)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Or' date=' alternatively, it was just a cartoon. [/quote']

 

I go with this one. Now if it were in a serious art form, like a comic, that would be different.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

I think it's fairly obvious the Sword was built using RKA or EB (well, it is a cartoon sword, so it could be normal damage) with No Range, and Cyborg was just spreading for area with it.

 

Alternately, it was a Multipower with an AE slots as described above, but the AE was most likely Any Area rather than One Hex. He didn't have to swing all the way around after all.

[Solomon]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

The Cyborg episode you describe seems a starightforward application of Sweep to me. Why do you feel this is not the case, Hyper-man?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

The Cyborg episode you describe seems a starightforward application of Sweep to me. Why do you feel this is not the case' date=' Hyper-man?[/quote']

 

agreed. I saw a bit of the episode. Take a 2D6HKA sword and add Cyborgs hefty STR (at least 35-40) and he easily bumps the thing up to its 4D6 maximum. With the average body damage being 14 Body, vs 10 Body pleebs, its not to hard to imagine the outcome...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

The Cyborg episode you describe seems a starightforward application of Sweep to me. Why do you feel this is not the case' date=' Hyper-man?[/quote']It seemed like the badguys were trying to just tackle Cyborg and the others and use their superior numbers to overwelm the heroes. How accurately Cyborg swings the sword doesn't seem to be as important as how hard he swings it. I just wondered if there was a better mechanic to reflect this in HERO terms.

 

Example:

Cyborg swings his sword (as hard as he can).

He rolls to hit the 1st badguy (anything but an 18 hits).

He rolls damage.

He rolls to hit the 2nd badguy....etc...

 

How well he rolls (critical hit or not) on the 1st attack of the sweep has no direct impact on how well he does on subsequent attacks even though it should to some degree.

 

Re: Follow-Through Attack Talent from Fantasy Hero (page 106)

This is probably the best way to stat out such an ability but the description, especially the sidebar option, reads like a super-critical hit. Since Cyborg is obviously from a Champions instead of Fantasy Hero setting it seems strange to require that he already have this setting-specific Talent.

 

Anyway, this thread was just me thinking out loud. The more I think about it, I realize it's not that big a deal.

 

HM

[Dust Raven]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

Maybe it is just the cartoon SFX for Sweeping with the sword. When he stops hitting badguys, he's finally failed a roll. Could be that the targets all had really low DCVs, and Cyborg, having Tactics or maybe Analyse Combat (or just a kind GM who tells the PCs what they need to roll for a hit), knows this. So he realizes that if he Sweeps for X targets, he'll still have a 13- to hit them, and that's likely to get 3-5 hits per swing. Because they fall with one hit, the player and GM simply say the SFX of the maneuver is that he swings with all his might, felling everything in the sword's path.

[Solomon]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

I agree with Dust Raven. Also, remember that you have to pay END for each attack in a Sweep, so in effect the more targets you are attacking, the harder (and less accurately) you are swinging.

 

As for the fact that Cyborg didn't seem to be making a conscious decision, that's standard fare in RPGs. Players make conscious decisions all the time, even when their characters are acting unconsciously. Heck, I can choose when my D&D barbarian character flies into a berserk rage!

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Critical Sweep?

 

If you're looking for a way (or explanation for) how multiple mooks can be taken out with force rather than accuracy, think of it this way: It wasn't a Sweep (which is the "accuracy" approach) at all. Instead, it was applied use of Knockback. One guy gets knocked back into a second guy, who goes flying into a third guy, etc. That's a more common approach to "brick sweeping". Enough force is applied in a particular direction so they go down like bowling pins. It works well in a lighter setting because it looks comical and superheroic and is usually not fatal.

 

I was a little disappointed that the "bowling pin" knockback trick wasn't covered in the Ultimate Brick (or maybe I missed it).