zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 I'm using "Ch'i Energy Gems" in my Cyber Ninja Pirates game and a player mentioned Qi was the appropriate spelling - or was that Ki? Anyway, that's the question, and I know some of you know the language and know the transliteration well, so figured I'd throw this out and hope for a reasonably authoritative consensus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Depends on what you are talking about. Chi and Ki are related (I have never heard it spelled Qi, though it is a possibility). Chi is more of a manifestation of internal balance or harmony with your body and the world around you. Your Chi must be balanced and in tune to be useful. When Chi is out of balance it can even cause you to become ill. Ki on the other hand is an external projection of your internal power. By extrapolation the more balanced your Chi the more powerful your Ki may become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Qi is another spelling. Even found Qi Magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Depends on what you are talking about. Chi and Ki are related (I have never heard it spelled Qi' date=' though it is a possibility). Chi is more of a manifestation of internal balance or harmony with your body and the world around you. Your Chi must be balanced and in tune to be useful. When Chi is out of balance it can even cause you to become ill. Ki on the other hand is an external projection of your internal power. By extrapolation the more balanced your Chi the more powerful your Ki may become.[/quote'] Huh, interesting. Are they pronounced the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Qi is another spelling. Even found Qi Magazine Thank you, interesting. I have to come up with a design for the (Ch'i, Chi, Ki, Qi, whatever, am tempted to go with Qi) Energy Gems and Alesia's going to make them in femo (sp), so that'll be cool. I want to use a yin-yang background but need a sci-fi "thing" to put on top of it, or something somehow "cyber pirate" (cybernetic skull and crossbones?). I can't reuse a commercial image. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... It's all Anglicisation of a non-English language. Spell it how you want, it makes no difference at all. There is no "correct" spelling. There are merely English spellings that simulate the way it is pronounced. And the way it is pronounced depends on which part of China or Japan you are in. They have MANY dialects. As to images- Try one of the heraldry clipart sites, or any other free clipart site (even the Microsoft one would do). [edit] And to be pedantic - there is no "correct" spelling to any Anglicised word. There are just "more common" and "less common" spellings. What I find quite annoying are some of the names for streets and suburbs we have here in my city. They have themes for suburbs (ie stars, prime ministers, explorers etc). Out in Gungahlin, the theme is "aboriginal". The didn't have a written language, and yet we have suburbs like "Ngunnawal" pronounced "Nun a wall" with a silent "g". The "g" was added because the word didn't look "aboriginal enough". So patronising it makes my teeth ache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Yeah, the correct spelling is probably some wierd sign I have never seen before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... In general: Ch'i = Chi = Qi (Chinese/Korean) Ki (Japanese) Folks are absolutely correct that it is a transliteration....the different spellings largely reflect different dialects/accents through the rather large region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... I'm using "Ch'i Energy Gems" in my Cyber Ninja Pirates game and a player mentioned Qi was the appropriate spelling - or was that Ki? Anyway, that's the question, and I know some of you know the language and know the transliteration well, so figured I'd throw this out and hope for a reasonably authoritative consensus... Depends on several factors. The language and the phonetic adaption. Ch'i seems to be standard for Chinese and Ki for Japan. But there are variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Thank you' date=' interesting. I have to come up with a design for the (Ch'i, Chi, Ki, Qi, whatever, am tempted to go with Qi) Energy Gems and Alesia's going to make them in femo (sp), so that'll be cool. I want to use a yin-yang background but need a sci-fi "thing" to put on top of it, or something somehow "cyber pirate" (cybernetic skull and crossbones?). I can't reuse a commercial image. Any ideas?[/quote'] On a whim, I'd say Cybernetic Skull and Crossbones as you describe. If you could play with the Terminator skull image, you'll get some gut reaction from people... How about a cybernetic skull with a sort of ninja headwrap or crossed ninja-tos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... On a whim, I'd say Cybernetic Skull and Crossbones as you describe. If you could play with the Terminator skull image, you'll get some gut reaction from people... How about a cybernetic skull with a sort of ninja headwrap or crossed ninja-tos? That could be good! One issue is I'm limited by my artistic ability. I'm intending to use free clip-art which I can then modify. This is also my oblique way of saying if anyone wants to help, they'd be very welcome... (if the game actually ever went into any sort of production/licensing status I'd gladly pay of course, but it is also possible I will just give this to HERO if Steve is interested, so anyone who wants to contribute should plan on just that...contributing as in donating probably). I do want to do something quickly though, so that I get it knocked out by the 28th when my wife is back from a vacation and she can get started on working on producing these. So I'll be moving quickly over the next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Depends on several factors. The language and the phonetic adaption. Ch'i seems to be standard for Chinese and Ki for Japan. But there are variations. I"m definitely seeing Qi around and someone said it is a more "contemporary" transliteration. Any thoughts on that? I'm tempted to go with Qi just because it looks good...but if nobody knows what the heck I'm talking about I'll use Ki instead. I like getting away from Ch'i for a simple but somewhat silly reason - in some versions of Word it never auto-corrects or passes spell check, despite trying to add it to the dictionary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Depends on several factors. The language and the phonetic adaption. Ch'i seems to be standard for Chinese and Ki for Japan. But there are variations. Yeah, what he said - with the anal addition that Ch'i is based on the older Guoyu Luomazi system of translation in which the "Ch' " combination is used to signify the chinese sound that is a sort of aspirated "k" sound (K as found in English). Hence "Ch'i" and "Ch'in". Sadly, though, many English speakers say "Chee" and "Chin" (like the thing between your mouth and your neck) which drives chinese people (well, some of them, anyway) crazy. So the more modern Hanyu Pinyin transliteration uses a "q" to denote this sound - hence "Qi" and "Qin". Same word, same sound, same meaning. Just a diferent way of transliterating it into English. The japanese transliterators have traditionally used "Ki" and "Ch'in". Don't ask me why. Was that more than you needed to know? cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... No, actually that was perfect, it confirms what else I was told, I just want to be thorough. Thank you very much! Also, it means I feel okay going with Qi, which I like the look of better (just personal). (rep for all will be forthcoming, but I have a serious backlog so may be a while!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Qi is Pinyin, the current official Romanization of mainland China. Ch'i is Wade-Giles Romanization, widely used in Taiwan and Hong Kong (at least before the Brits handed it off). Chi may be the same thing in some other less common Romanization scheme (I know of at least four or five), but it's best not to use it, since it could be mistaken for something totally different. Pinyin qi = Wade-Giles ch'i Pinyin chi = Wade-Giles ch'ih And vice versa: Wade-Giles chi = Pinyin ji Qi and ch'i are both pronounced chee. For the less casual student of Chinese, the ch sound is made with the tongue further forward than, for example, chou and ch'ou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Pinyin spelling has a number of letters that are certainly not phonetic translations into English. They're put there because there are particular sounds in Chinese which they differ between while we do not. While we have a billion and one variants on vowel sounds, the Chinese language has many variants on sounds such as 'ch'. So ch, q, ts and similar pinyin spellings are all pronounced, to most westerners, like 'ch'. Some other oddities - X is 'sh', zh is 'j', hs is a breathy 's'... those are the major ones, I think. I don't speak Chinese, I should add. I was running a Chinese-themed game a while back (entitled Wuxia Madness!) and did some basic research. So I offer no guarantee of accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... I'm using "Ch'i Energy Gems" in my Cyber Ninja Pirates game and a player mentioned Qi was the appropriate spelling - or was that Ki? Anyway, that's the question, and I know some of you know the language and know the transliteration well, so figured I'd throw this out and hope for a reasonably authoritative consensus... Ch'i is fine. If he complains, explain that the propper spelling for the type of breathing exercises employed by Japanese martial artists is 気功, and that you expect him to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Oh, the player wasn't complaining, he was just mentioning. See my later post as to why I'd just as soon change it anyway. I appreciate the input, though, and thanks for posting the Japanese lettering, could come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... It's all Anglicisation of a non-English language. Spell it how you want, it makes no difference at all. There is no "correct" spelling. There are merely English spellings that simulate the way it is pronounced. And the way it is pronounced depends on which part of China or Japan you are in. They have MANY dialects. This, I think, is the real key to understanding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Oh, the player wasn't complaining, he was just mentioning. See my later post as to why I'd just as soon change it anyway. I appreciate the input, though, and thanks for posting the Japanese lettering, could come in handy. OK, read the thread. Go with what you're comfortable with. I'd go with Qi / Ch'i / Ki depending on the origins of the martial art / invention myself; as others have said, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... This' date=' I think, is the real [b']key[/b] to understanding.... OWWWW! That HURT! Too bad they got rid of negative rep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... OK, read the thread. Go with what you're comfortable with. I'd go with Qi / Ch'i / Ki depending on the origins of the martial art / invention myself; as others have said, it's all good. It's a distant galaxy in long time "away" and there's no direct relation, so it's more a nebulous concept - much like The Force, if you will, in Star Wars, I guess. So I don't have to worry in terms of "real" authenticity, but it's at least nice to use a term that isn't flat-out wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... Some other oddities - X is 'sh', zh is 'j', hs is a breathy 's'... those are the major ones, I think. Most of those differ from the regular English use of the letters by where the tongue is when saying it, like I mentioned above in reference to qi vs chou. Pinyin x is English sh with the tongue forward in the mouth (Wade-Giles hs is the exact same sound). Obviously, then Pinyin sh is sh with the tongue drawn back. Pinyin j is English j forward; Pinyin zh is English j in the back. Wade-Giles calls them both ch. There are a couple of other oddities, like pinyin p being essentially English p, but Wade-Giles p is English b. (Wade-Giles uses p' for p). Probably the best Romanization for avoiding pronunciation problems is Yale Romanization. Unfortunately, you won't find any books in English that use Yale for Chinese words. It's almost always Pinyin or Wade-Giles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... yeah, phonetic Anglizication of words is a bitch if they aren't languages that were originally compatible with the weatern alphabet (I do a lot with Gaelic, which has similar problems). As for the debate... In your case, Zorn, I'd be inclined to go with Ki, as it's the most common Japaneese spelling I've seen, and you are doing a cyber-NINJA pirate game, after all. edit: make that, "the most common english spelling of the Japaneese word", in case that wasn't implicitly obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Ch'i Ki Qi ... They can't be Chinese Ninjas? Huh? Just kidding. Maybe you're right, that's a solid point. It does look "smarter" if someone knows the terms and sees Ninja and Qi or Ch'i they might snort a bit. Of course the game isn't very serious, but it's nice to get some of the small stuff right. I'm happy so long as I can get rid of Ch'i - dang spell checker and auto-correct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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