UltraRob Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/westernma.htm I like the part about the need for masters to prove their worth against against three half-drunken men! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training Very interesting, good link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training That is a damned good link. Rep2u. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training does lifting ones kilt then count as a martial flash attack? or a marital flash attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training Intriguing link. Not sure about the presentation of 'historical accuracy' but nonetheless very interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training does lifting ones kilt then count as a martial flash attack? or a marital flash attack? Well now, I guess that depends on how big your sporran is, doesn't it lad? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training does this mean there are multiple meanings to "tossing the caber"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethosos Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training Ack! Bad Scottish wang jokes! *does the flailing arms dance* Really, you shouldn't say it aound anyone who's at least a quarter Scot--J and I are from Clan Bruce, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training at least I didnt ask about why the scots actually wear kilts, the answer I heard years ago in the SCA probably isnt fit for a public bulletin board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training hey now... I'm largely Scots Irish and I enjoy jokes about both. Heck, I collect them. I do occasionally get annoyed at the lackwits who think that I haven't heard the same joke 10 million times, but you have to cut folks some slack. The site was interesting. Having done fairly extensive research into the history of the region, I'd say that there is some merit to whats being said, but that there is a lot thats either being left unsaid for berevity, or it's being approcached from a redactive POV designed to make a "new" incarnation thats more in line with modern martial arts. On a similar topic... There is good evidence in written and oral traditions to support that there were probably a lot more "martial arts" in the days of yore than we give credit for. I've seen several noted and respected scholars write on the topic. There is a school of thought that a lot of the more "magical" warriors who's lives have come down to us through oral tradition may very well have studied various forms of fighting arts in combonation with shamanic practices that would today look very much like martial arts, but have come across in epic poetry as magical abilities. Examples would include Scatha's school for heros (which gave the Isle of Skye its name) where Cuchulain and Ferdiad studied during the Ulster cycle, the training regimens of the Fianna , the various animal brotherhoods of the norse sagas: the Ulfhednar (wolfs), the Berserks (bears), and the Svinfylking (boars): all could be seen from a modern perspective to be forms of highly trained warriors who combined intensive training and mental self control to perform feats that their contemporaies may have very well considered mystical. Its a topic that's held some interest for me for many years now, and someday I'm going to sit down an try and write it all up in HERO terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training So I'm idly wondering how to model targe+dirk+broadsword fighting as pictured in the link. The simplest method to me would be to allow the character to switch back and forth from two-weapon fighting to weapon-and-shield, such that the shield only provides a DCV bonus while in the latter mode, and counts only as armor in the former. It still seems like a powerful and versatile combo, though--shields are already very strong in FH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training So I'm idly wondering how to model targe+dirk+broadsword fighting as pictured in the link. The simplest method to me would be to allow the character to switch back and forth from two-weapon fighting to weapon-and-shield' date=' such that the shield only provides a DCV bonus while in the latter mode, and counts only as armor in the former. It still seems like a powerful and versatile combo, though--shields are already very strong in FH.[/quote'] I'd have to think about it a bit to get it into game terms. I've fought that way before, and while it is nasty, its not as evil as you might think. The range of motion for the targe is decreased by the need to strap the targe to the forearm, to free up the offhand for the dirk. You lose a lot of the leverage with the shield. In general I dislike fighting with a targe because they are small enough that it makes covering your off hand low flank difficult... you have to fight in a rather deep stance to have any hope of guarding your off side against leg shots. OTOH, I've seen a description of how to make a completely historically accurate 18th century Targe that is mostly bulletproof (versus the low velocity muzzleloaders of the period, anyway), which is suspected to be one of the reasons they kept using them. The Engish pretty much abandoned targeteers by the early 17th century becasue their techniques for making proofed sheilds had become so heavy that they had stopped being very functional. The Scots used, essentially, laminated composites. The other europeans went with metal. A metal sheild that can stop a .70 caliber musketball is impressive, but a BEAR to fight with (my border reaver friend had one, complete with proofmark and embedded bullet ). so it all kinda depends. Do bear in mind that a lot of what they're discussing in the article is more in the range of Regency Hero than FH tho. Things start changing quickly when you add guns and easier transport of ideas into a culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training Admittedly the time period is a bit advanced, but I don't see any reason why targe+dirk couldn't be used in a FH campaign--it's not like there's any complex technology involved. But I'm also thinking it's not as powerful a technique, in game terms, as I originally thought. The targe is clearly a small shield, so the targe and the offhand weapon will give the same +1 DCV bonus; the only advantage would be using some of the shield maneuvers which are also weak with the small shield. I'm now thinking that it's not even worth it unless the user is given cumulative DCV bonuses for the offhand weapon and the small shield. I'd probably make up some 1- or 2-point 'targe + dirk' skill to be able to do that. The Engish pretty much abandoned targeteers by the early 17th century becasue their techniques for making proofed sheilds had become so heavy that they had stopped being very functional. It's just too easy to shorten 'targeteer' to 'target'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Scottish Martial Arts Training Admittedly the time period is a bit advanced, but I don't see any reason why targe+dirk couldn't be used in a FH campaign--it's not like there's any complex technology involved. But I'm also thinking it's not as powerful a technique, in game terms, as I originally thought. The targe is clearly a small shield, so the targe and the offhand weapon will give the same +1 DCV bonus; the only advantage would be using some of the shield maneuvers which are also weak with the small shield. I'm now thinking that it's not even worth it unless the user is given cumulative DCV bonuses for the offhand weapon and the small shield. I'd probably make up some 1- or 2-point 'targe + dirk' skill to be able to do that. I'd pretty much say that Sword+targe+dirk would be a regional variation of Two Weapon Fighting skill. Targes range in the small to medium category, for the most part. the biggest I've seen reasonably used with the technique are around 22" in diameter... you need to have a fairly decent amount of Dirk showing past the rim of the sheild, and the longest dirk I've EVER encountered was 17". Most are in the 12"-14" range. I'd probably allow for a +2DCV, because it really is better than just a knife in the offhand, but I wouldn't allow the usual sheild bonus to block as a penalty for the lack of control and leverage on the sheild. It's just too easy to shorten 'targeteer' to 'target'. I don't rightly recall if we get one from the other, but they certain have related roots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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