Odd Mind Scan question

[Supreme Serpent]

Inspired by the various Mentalist threads floating around, I had a strange thought. Now, I've never seen it run it this way, and I doubt many have, but...

 

...if someone with Mental Awareness is in an area being scanned by Mind Scan, wouldn't they notice, and even perhaps have an idea of where the scan is coming from?

[lemming]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Inspired by the various Mentalist threads floating around, I had a strange thought. Now, I've never seen it run it this way, and I doubt many have, but...

 

...if someone with Mental Awareness is in an area being scanned by Mind Scan, wouldn't they notice, and even perhaps have an idea of where the scan is coming from?

I'd give them a perception roll, probably at the same minuses the person doing the mind scan is unless they're actively looking for Mind Scans.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Depends, I suppose, if you consider Mind Scan an active or a passive sense. I would assume it was active, generally, so I'd agree with lemming, but it may not be. If it is analagous to sitting on a roof and looking down at a crowd through binoculars, there's nothing that would automatically set off a detect like mental awareness. Carrying the analogy too far, though, you could always just happen to look up....

[Sean Waters]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

You could say that Mind Scan is GENERALLY detectable by mental awareness unless the scanner is going for the enhanced 'undetectable by scannee +20' level of effect.

[Cancer]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Interesting. I haven't had this come up, but it sets me to thinking of a framework/world background for mental powers along the lines of an analogy to sonar. There's passive sonar (the use of which is flatly undetectable, but you get a much less comprehensive view of the environment if that's all you use) and active sonar (where you see lots of stuff, but anyone in range with any awareness at all knows at least that there's someone doing a scan, and has a good chance of locating you).

 

Hmm. Lots of possibilities and implications there, but it probably starts getting too grainy unless mentalism really dominates your world and/or plot lines.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

I never thought of that, but since i think of mind scan as "mental radar" sorta thing, that i suppose someone with mental awareness would know.

 

Makes it very diffrent when people are sweeping whole city blocks, suddenly every super villian with mental awareness knows someone's looking for something

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Interesting. I haven't had this come up, but it sets me to thinking of a framework/world background for mental powers along the lines of an analogy to sonar. There's passive sonar (the use of which is flatly undetectable, but you get a much less comprehensive view of the environment if that's all you use) and active sonar (where you see lots of stuff, but anyone in range with any awareness at all knows at least that there's someone doing a scan, and has a good chance of locating you).

 

Hmm. Lots of possibilities and implications there, but it probably starts getting too grainy unless mentalism really dominates your world and/or plot lines.

 

I never thought of that, but since i think of mind scan as "mental radar" sorta thing, that i suppose someone with mental awareness would know.

 

Makes it very diffrent when people are sweeping whole city blocks, suddenly every super villian with mental awareness knows someone's looking for something

 

Yeah, my initial thoughts were along those lines. Could make the whole "Mind Scanning Egoist 'safely' at home" work a little differently...

 

And many egoists in the area might assume someone's looking for *them*, specifically, just failed to notice them.

 

All kinds of possibilities.

 

Also able to easily explain the "did you just feel that?" thing that happens in comics, when Dr. Strange, Spidey, Prof X, etc. all feel Entity Z looking for the artifact of power, etc. "Some*thing* nasty just Mind Scanned the world."

[pinecone]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

I've more or less always thought of it like that...one reason not to casually mind scan is you might atract the wrong attention....if I walk around a park looking through binocs while I'm not breaking any laws I Will atract attention...mind scan ...in my mind... works like Sonar each attempt being a "ping" that reveals you and your location to any one listening....(a good excuse to use PSI, or the secrect CIA psion experiment gone bad.)...

[gojira]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

So, if it works like sonar, are there both active and passive versions?

[Stone]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Inspired by the various Mentalist threads floating around, I had a strange thought. Now, I've never seen it run it this way, and I doubt many have, but...

 

...if someone with Mental Awareness is in an area being scanned by Mind Scan, wouldn't they notice, and even perhaps have an idea of where the scan is coming from?

 

I would say yes, the character would be aware of the scan if the scan falls within the character's field of vision. Detecting the the user of the scan is a different story. If the person initiating the scan is able to be seen by the character w/Mental Awareness (ex. in the same area w/no barriers), then character would be able to follow the scan to the user. If the user is not able to be seen by the character (ex. on a different floor of a hotel), then I agree with the others w/giving a perception roll to be able to determine which direction the scan is coming from.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

I've always treated Mind Scan as an Active Sense that is detectable by Mental Awareness. Not always automatically detectable though. Here's how I'd rule it.

 

Example:

 

MindMan is sitting at home watching the news when he sees something spiffy. He decids to contact his Buddy, who he knows is in a class studying the mating habbits of frogs so can't answer a phone, with Mind Scan. He knows where the school is, but not the classroom, so he scans the school for his friends mind. The school has about 1000 people in it, for a -6 to his roll.

 

When he begins his scan, BrainBoy (a rival mentalist) is in the computer lab, and has a chance to detect the scan. He rolls a Mental Awareness PER Roll. If he succeeds, he notices the scan (and then may have options based on his other senses and Powers). If not, he does not notice it and goes about his business.

 

So, MindMan makes his roll. Immediately, Buddy is aware he is trying to be contacted by MindMan. If BrainBoy was in the room, and had made his PER Roll, he would also know that Buddy was being affected by a Mental Power, but not buy who or what Power it was (he would know who if the attacker was also in the room with him). BrainBoy would also have an idea of where if he makes his PER Roll by half.

 

If Buddy had Mental Awareness, he's be able to make the same PER Roll BrainBoy did. If it's made, it could turn on any non-persistant Mental Defense he had (if he thought he might be the target and didn't want the distraction). But Buddy doesn't so it doesn't matter.

 

MindMan makes his effect roll and rolls 20 higher than Buddy's EGO. Buddy know knows not only who's contacted him, but exactly where he is. If BrainBoy was in the room, he still wouldn't know anything more, other than the effect was successful.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

I absolutely consider Mind Scan to be detectable by Mental Awareness.

[austenandrews]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Depends on the SFX of the Mind Scan and the Mental Awareness. One size does not fit all.

[zornwil]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

Honestly, I tend to play fast and loose with mental awareness, largely along SFX lines as austenandrews alludes to, along with my own perception of how it tends to work in heroic fiction. Lots of likelihood around proximity, familiarity, and power involved, but no formula. Theoretically, if I did one, it'd be something like (vaguely, please don't take this as a specific recommendation):

 

Factor for Mental Awareness:

 

Proximity of Mental Activity: Very Near (0-5 hexes) +3, Nearby (6 hexes-"4 NYC blocks", something like that) +2, Not Far (up to 1/2 a mile), Greater Metropolitan Area/County/that sort of thing +/-0, Far (around 100 miles) -1, Very Far (100-1000 miels) -2, "Continental" (1000-5000 miles) -3, Global (>5K miles) -4

 

Familiarity of Source or Target Mind: Very Familiar (long-time teammate, good friend, very familiar mind that's been intimately touched) +3, Familiar (acquaintance, mind that's been reached a few times) +1, Not Familiar (unknown) -1, Alien (unknown, never heard of/esoteric) -3

 

Power: 60 AP = 0, +/- 1 per 20 AP

 

"Net Adjustment" of -5 to above. If the net is at least -5, make a Mental PER roll using the result as an adjustment to that roll.

 

Something like that, but I think these values aren't that good. Those are the sorts of parametes, anyway.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

This is an interesting question. I definitely allow someone with Mental Awareness to see that someone is using or being affected by Mind Scan. If they see a target being affected, also have Mind Scan, and have a pretty good idea of what is going on (Discriminatory on the Mental Awareness, a good Deduction roll, or just solid player reasoning), I allow them to, "trace back," along the Mind Scan (that is, make a Mind Scan attack roll with no--or severly reduced--OECV penalty).

 

As to whether someone with Mental Awareness can detect the mere scanning of an area, I tend to let story and dramatic sense rule the situation. As a general guideline I like the suggestion made about the same penalty to the Mental Awareness Per roll as to the attacker's OECV.

[pinecone]

Re: Odd Mind Scan question

 

So' date=' if it works like sonar, are there both active and passive versions?[/quote']

I'd be perfectly happy to give that a try...but I'd consider "passive" mind scan to be dependant on "mental noise" so it would only be of much use around concentrations of psions...my CIA "black ops" teams use artificial psions whose only power is mental awareness with discrim,ID and tracking...they are trained to hunt down and eliminate psionic threats to the united states.....at least they were suposed to ...before they went "rogue" that is.....