Jump to content

Let's Talk Lovecraft


austenandrews

Recommended Posts

As I am periodically wont, I've returned to the notion of running a Cthulhu game. This time I'm pondering PBEM with its more literary bent. Naturally I'll be using Hero, though the nature of the beast will make combat issues less particular.

 

So I've been rereading Lovecraft to distill a tone and flavor for the campaign. As always my goal is to use Lovecraft as the model, as opposed to the mass of subsequent "mythos" lore, or worse, the Chaosium "Call of Cthulhu" lore. My question to you is, what would you list as the overriding components of Lovecraft's horror? How would you separate them from the tropes that have become common elements in "Cthulhu games?" And which of those non-Lovecraftian elements would you say should not be excluded?

 

I'm shooting for capturing what made Lovecraft unique, combined with what makes a game enjoyable. Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 75
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I'm actually a fan of later writers of the mythos. Lovecraft himself always seems... boring actually. Cool names and concepts, but rather pointless in an age where a significant part of western culture open claims that mankind is a worthless accident of random physical forces.

 

And the stories themselves- Nerd encounters stuff man was not meant to know (why is "things man wasn't *meant* to know? There are no value judgements in this setting- it should be things man *can't* know). Nerd goes insane. etc. etc. I'd rather clip my nails.

 

So I'm afraid I have no suggestions for you.

 

I do however have a question. Why use HERO system for a back to basics Lovecraft setting? A system designed for larger than life action-adventure seems a poor fit.

 

Pure familiarity perhaps?

 

Hatred of Chaosium?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

Since I live in the area Lovecraft called home and frequently do the walking tours of all the old sites I am by no means an expert on the Chthulu mythos but I am a fan.

The elements that I feel make a Lovecraft novel are primarily the overbearing sense of dread and the fact that anything the hero calls up or researches can't be put down unless you have some serious firepower or an Elder Sign. I have played the game in other systems but haven't attempted to try it in the hero system. I think the sanity element is relatively key to play as the players learn more and more of the reality (unreality?) of the universe at large and the fact that we are a tiny part of it. There are ...things... that defy description, that twist the norm of reality, that just plain consume to survive and that just plain exist to sow chaos. As a gamemaster you have a lot of work to do to maintain the feeling of doom just under the surface. I have enjoyed playing but have more fun twisting the players down the path. I had a unique chance to play a game several years ago at a con in Baltimore that was run by Sandy Petersen. I learned a bit about running a game that day...

Here's my recommendation for starting a game, you make all the characters and just give the players the dice, let them figure out who they are as they awake in an insane asylum with no memory and no recollection of how they got there. The head doctor is using the players as bait to summon an ...outsider... to give him unimaginable power, that of course turns around on him as the players find creative ways to not take their medication.

 

My two coppers for what it's worth...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

Well, I can't claim to be a Lovecraft expert. I prefer later Mythos writers. However, I recently re-read a few of the original Lovecraft stories when working on a character background, and I have read all of his stuff at one time or another.

 

The key (imo) to his stories is that the heroes are not particularly extraordinary people, and that they're not ultimately going to win. At best, they might survive with only life-long emotional and psychological damage.

 

Also, the racism and insular, provincial small town atmosphere are very strong in Lovecraft's stories. Our heroes are not defending the innocent from evil; the townsfolk themselves are generally nasty, small minded, and well deserving of their fates.

 

I got the feeling he didn't like people much. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I'm shooting for capturing what made Lovecraft unique' date=' combined with what makes a game enjoyable. Thoughts?[/quote']

Haven't read Lovecraft in a while (one of the few authors that can actually give me nightmares), but my take on many of stories was that it was really a mix of mystery and investigation with an underlying sense of fear and dread. For some reason the characters were forced to continue to investigating it, whether or not it was a noble purpose, or sheer curiosity.

 

Also, I don't remember much of a repeating cast, so depending on how long each scenario lasts, character turnover could be fairly high. Wouldn't want the players remaking characters every week, but Lovecraft's protaganists were definitaly damaged goods after a single encounter with the mythos.

 

Also once a character "faced a unspeakable horror from beyond," a physical or mental trait would tend to set in. I seem to recall a character whose hair went stark white, and another who was afraid to go in the subways or basements. While insanity is definitaly a part, I would get rid of an insanity meter, and just determine when a character gains a new dementia.

 

Also Lovecraft created a lot of stories that were part of the mythos, but set in an age long forgotten. In an era without the constant eye-in-the-sky satellites, exploring forgotten places could lead to a discovery of ruins of an ancient civilization and the PCs trying to learn the history of that place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

My question to you is, what would you list as the overriding components of Lovecraft's horror?

 

Hmmm, interesting topic! Offhand, I'd say:

 

1. Protagonists who are generally physically weak (no better than human average, if not worse [sickly, etc.]), but intellectually strong.

 

2. Curiosity, even about things "man was not meant to know," is a prime feature of these heroes, even if they know/suspect that the knowledge may harm them. Put more broadly, it's better to be knowledgeable and suffer for it, than to live in the "bliss" of ignorance.

 

3. At the end of a properly-told Lovecraft story, the protagonist(s) should be insane, dead, or retired from "adventuring" permanently. There are a few instances of protagonists getting away OK (in "The Dunwich Horror" among others, IIRC), but Lovecraft wasn't really one for serial "heroes."

 

4. Opposition that's often not so much "evil" or directly inimical to humanity as it is simply ultra-powerful and uncaring. It affects/destroys humanity in about the same way that a human accidentally steps on an ant. OTOH, cultists and servants may be more directly "evil" in a pulpish or comic book sense.

 

5. The main themes/elements of most types of horror are powerlessness, isolation, and ignorance. Lovecraft incorporates all of these -- the weak heroes, the locales far from cities (Innsmouth, various isolated New England woods, Antarctica, etc.), mankind not knowing what's really going on out there. Keep in mind the difficulty of pulp-era communications and travel as compared to today, and the isolation and ignorance make more sense.

 

Hope that helps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I would throw out the sainty loss system personally and make sure you get players who are willing to play the genre. If you do that, then you will have players who will on their own, allow their characters to go insane from the knowledge they are gaining and in such a way that best fits their character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

The five rules of rolepalying in the world of H.P. Lovecraft

 

1. Don't go in the attic

2. Don't go in the basement

3. Don't go out at night

4. Don't go out alone

5. Save the last bullet for yourself

 

 

I have never had much luck using HERO for simulating the helplessness of Lovecraftian horror. I have always found that my HERO Lovecraft games turn into quasi-supers games, or shoot 'um ups rather than the experience of cosmic terror that they should be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I do however have a question. Why use HERO system for a back to basics Lovecraft setting? A system designed for larger than life action-adventure seems a poor fit.

 

Pure familiarity perhaps?

 

Hatred of Chaosium?

Largely familiarity. (I'll probably run it at HeroCentral.)

 

I've got nothing against Chaosium's game system as such. I haven't seen it in many years but it was workable enough when I played it. I actually did try to buy a copy of CoC, but my FLGS was out and as a Hero geek, I didn't bother a second time. Also I'm trying to get away from Chaosium baggage for my game, so I figured using Hero might make a cleaner break for players accustomed to CoC.

 

Also, I don't rate Hero as strictly larger-than-life. It works quite well for horror. I find it scales down nicely for normals v.s. overpowering baddies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

Also' date=' I don't rate Hero as strictly larger-than-life. It works quite well for horror. I find it scales down nicely for normals v.s. overpowering baddies.[/quote']

 

Since Horror in RPG is primarily an issue of self-delusion, I guess one can make anything work :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

H.P. Lovecraft

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Lovecraft

 

Horror Fiction

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_fiction

 

References to the Cthulhu mythos

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/References_to_the_Cthulhu_Mythos

 

Cthulhu

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

 

The Call of Cthulhu

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu

 

The Call of Cthulhu (Role Playing Game)

http:// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu_%28role_playing_game%29

 

Lovecraftian Role-Playing Games

http:// http://www.hplovecraft.com/popcult/games/rpg.htm

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

1. Protagonists who are generally physically weak (no better than human average' date=' if not worse [sickly, etc.']), but intellectually strong.

I would make the amendment that sometimes his protagonists are physically quite capable ("Dagon," "The Horror At Red Hook," "Imprisoned With the Pharaohs," even "The Call of Cthulhu") but that physical abilities have far less consequence to the story than intellectual curiosity. Which is one reason the PCs will be low on the character point scale.

 

2. Curiosity, even about things "man was not meant to know," is a prime feature of these heroes, even if they know/suspect that the knowledge may harm them. Put more broadly, it's better to be knowledgeable and suffer for it, than to live in the "bliss" of ignorance.

...Until It's Too Late. :) Which is always a fun part of GMing a Lovecraft game - turning knowledge into Too Much Knowledge.

 

3. At the end of a properly-told Lovecraft story, the protagonist(s) should be insane, dead, or retired from "adventuring" permanently. There are a few instances of protagonists getting away OK (in "The Dunwich Horror" among others, IIRC), but Lovecraft wasn't really one for serial "heroes."

Aside from Randolph Carter, of course. But this is one area I think it's wise to yield the Lovecraft trope in favor of the gaming trope. Players are usually happy to lose their PCs in the Cthulhu game, but "revolving-door PCs" reduces attachment to the characters and diminishes the sense of impending loss. At least I'm not aware of any workable techniques to overcome that drawback.

 

4. Opposition that's often not so much "evil" or directly inimical to humanity as it is simply ultra-powerful and uncaring. It affects/destroys humanity in about the same way that a human accidentally steps on an ant. OTOH, cultists and servants may be more directly "evil" in a pulpish or comic book sense.

I adore the faceless, cosmic aspect. I'm less enamored of cultists as such, but at the same time it's hard to run a campaign without a strong antagonist backbone.

 

5. The main themes/elements of most types of horror are powerlessness, isolation, and ignorance. Lovecraft incorporates all of these -- the weak heroes, the locales far from cities (Innsmouth, various isolated New England woods, Antarctica, etc.), mankind not knowing what's really going on out there. Keep in mind the difficulty of pulp-era communications and travel as compared to today, and the isolation and ignorance make more sense.

Yes! Lovecraft had a horribly arrogant attitude about the poor and imagined all manner of grotesque degeneration in unseen corners of the world. Which produces a wonderfully paranoid worldview. And he did a nice job of using colorful, travelogue-style prose to sneak in an atmosphere of isolation. Good point about the limitations of early 20th-century communications. Always ripe for period plot beats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I would throw out the sainty loss system personally and make sure you get players who are willing to play the genre. If you do that' date=' then you will have players who will on their own, allow their characters to go insane from the knowledge they are gaining and in such a way that best fits their character.[/quote']

 

If you want to use sanity loss in Hero (in a little less Arbitrary way than Chaosium does). Give the Horrors a Transformation attack that heals back over time.

 

A really good way to handle Lovecraft in Hero is to look at Allen Vaney's incredible "Horror World" in Champions in 3-D (if you can find a copy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I would throw out the sainty loss system personally and make sure you get players who are willing to play the genre. If you do that' date=' then you will have players who will on their own, allow their characters to go insane from the knowledge they are gaining and in such a way that best fits their character.[/quote']

Absolutely agreed. I've got no need for a "sanity" game mechanic.

 

If you want to use sanity loss in Hero (in a little less Arbitrary way than Chaosium does). Give the Horrors a Transformation attack that heals back over time.

If I were going that route, that's how I'd probably do it. But as yamamura said I prefer players who roleplay madness as they see fit. I can make them plenty paranoid without madness necessarily even coming into play. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

As I am periodically wont, I've returned to the notion of running a Cthulhu game. This time I'm pondering PBEM with its more literary bent. Naturally I'll be using Hero, though the nature of the beast will make combat issues less particular.

 

So I've been rereading Lovecraft to distill a tone and flavor for the campaign. As always my goal is to use Lovecraft as the model, as opposed to the mass of subsequent "mythos" lore, or worse, the Chaosium "Call of Cthulhu" lore. My question to you is, what would you list as the overriding components of Lovecraft's horror? How would you separate them from the tropes that have become common elements in "Cthulhu games?" And which of those non-Lovecraftian elements would you say should not be excluded?

 

I'm shooting for capturing what made Lovecraft unique, combined with what makes a game enjoyable. Thoughts?

 

 

Existential dread is the primary ingredient in a Lovecraftian game. Also good is a strong dichotomy in which the characters constantly dread discovering new information but cannot help themselves in the pursuit of it. Tentacles, slime, exagerrated vagina dentata phobias are all extraneous hoo ha, but can be included if the fear they generate is real. The universe is not malevolent, it is indifferent and humans are far to frail to deal with the universe on its own terms. In one of my favorite Lovecraftian campaigns the characters found themselves involved in a plot in which several apparently immortal people were involved around a conspiracy that hid a treasure which may have been the living (and never slain) Jesus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

If you want to use sanity loss in Hero (in a little less Arbitrary way than Chaosium does). Give the Horrors a Transformation attack that heals back over time.

 

A really good way to handle Lovecraft in Hero is to look at Allen Vaney's incredible "Horror World" in Champions in 3-D (if you can find a copy.

 

I always thought one could do well by using PRE like STR -- it does "damage" to your... hmm... some sort of figured "mental STUN" stat (PRE + [EGO/2] + [iNT/2]?) or something like that. Going to -31 mental STUN = insanity.

 

(Hmm... this could be a short DH article).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

I always thought one could do well by using PRE like STR -- it does "damage" to your... hmm... some sort of figured "mental STUN" stat (PRE + [EGO/2] + [iNT/2]?) or something like that. Going to -31 mental STUN = insanity.

 

(Hmm... this could be a short DH article).

 

Easier might be to use PRE as Body, and have PRE attacks over base PRE+10 do Pre-Body. So, a 12d6 PRE attack from an Eldritch Horror mnages a 42 PRE, 12 PRE-Body effect against Herbert Wimple, PRE 13 investigator. Herbert takes a PRE+20 effect (just shy of PRE+30), and 12 PRE-Body, suffering from nighmares and depression for months if he escapes. He is not yet insane. He will slowly recover his lost PRE-Body, just as if it were lost BODY. At negative PRE-Body, he will gradually become more and more obviously mad. At -13 PRE-Body he will become an NPC, and at -26 PRE-Body he dies of fright.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

4. Opposition that's often not so much "evil" or directly inimical to humanity as it is simply ultra-powerful and uncaring. It affects/destroys humanity in about the same way that a human accidentally steps on an ant. OTOH, cultists and servants may be more directly "evil" in a pulpish or comic book sense.

This, I think is a key concept - the alienness and dissociation with what humans know of reality. The beings are "beyond" every concept we can ever think of (which is why I like the Belknap story of the Space Eaters so much - it is predominantly about Lovecraft himself and the quest to describe what human minds cannot comprehend). It's like taking the old addage about the Christian God of "his ineffable plan" to explain the complete lack of logic in his actions - and moving it to an extreme. Their thought processes are so alien, dealing with dimensions so different from our own, that we could never fathom what they have done, let alone take a guess at what they will do next.

5. The main themes/elements of most types of horror are powerlessness, isolation, and ignorance. Lovecraft incorporates all of these -- the weak heroes, the locales far from cities (Innsmouth, various isolated New England woods, Antarctica, etc.), mankind not knowing what's really going on out there. Keep in mind the difficulty of pulp-era communications and travel as compared to today, and the isolation and ignorance make more sense.

Again, another Mythos writer comes to mind here - Stephen King's short story "Hobb's End" (I think). Where the isolation actually occurs inside a major city, London. In this story he brings across quite well the concept of how someone can be isolated no matter where they are, or what they are doing. I think it ties in with Lovecraft's ideas about perceptions - and how humans are so limited in their senses, and how easily senses affect reality for the individual.

 

As to sanity loss - ditch it. It's a system mechanic to replace lack of roleplaying. If you don't have roleplayers capable of this kind of response to horror - or if you can't get your players to emphasise enough with the characters and the situation they are in - give up and do something else.

 

The whole point of roleplaying a horror game is to feel the horror - not to keep track of numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Let's Talk Lovecraft

 

Easier might be to use PRE as Body' date=' and have PRE attacks over base PRE+10 do Pre-Body. So, a 12d6 PRE attack from an Eldritch Horror mnages a 42 PRE, 12 PRE-Body effect against Herbert Wimple, PRE 13 investigator. Herbert takes a PRE+20 effect (just shy of PRE+30), and 12 PRE-Body, suffering from nighmares and depression for months if he escapes. He is not yet insane. He will slowly recover his lost PRE-Body, just as if it were lost BODY. At negative PRE-Body, he will gradually become more and more obviously mad. At -13 PRE-Body he will become an NPC, and at -26 PRE-Body he dies of fright.[/quote']

 

This is a good idea ... though I'd allow a base SAN to equal 2xPRE, with additional points costing either 1 cp or having to take a Talent called Willpower that allows PRE defense (or maybe allowing small amounts of PRE Defense). I'd also buy spells with Side Effects that basically cause SAN damage ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...