Guest C_Zeree Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I don’t know how popular this sub-genre is. Trying to find out, hope to get some input. Applicable to both Fantasy Hero and Star Hero. Rifts did it. Gamma World. Not an aficionado, I don’t know all the titles. One of the many things I’m toying with is a Fallen Earth. Years ago I thought Rifts had great flavor, still do, so I wanted to capture some of it. The Fall 1 - I began with a plague, super germ escaped from a US research lab (Thank you S. King). Doesn’t destroy the world, they get it under control predict over 1 billion dead. People very upset and scared. 2 – Terrorism in US, retribution from extremist religion blaming US corruption for the plague. Two bombs cripple downtown LA, generating even more US hysteria. 3 – US extremist retaliation. Claim subversive Chinese action released plague. Nuclear style weapon detonated in Shanghai. 4 – Unexpected natural disasters in short spans, percussions of destruction. Massive earth quakes along Pacific Rim. Dormant volcanoes erupt. Storms build and rage, thunderstorms, tornados, hurricanes boil up from nothing. Storms last for months, flooding and famine. 5 – The Fall is complete, humanity tries to recover, but fails. So just how many ways are there to destroy civilization, as we know it? How have you our how’d your GM reshape the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 There were a couple threads on this on the old boards; you could probably find them pretty easily by trolling through those old posts. And of course Star Hero has a little discussion of this topic, since I know it's going to be a while before we get to do a subgenre book for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 For an unusual, and rather disturbing take on the fall of civilization, you might see if you can find a copy of the supplement Champions in 3-D and take a look at the "Horror World" section. Even though it was written up for Champions, the threat in this world is more environmental and not really defeatable through brute force, so the power level of the PCs is much less of an issue. Remember those investigators in H.P. Lovecraft's stories who barely prevent the evil cultists from summoning the unspeakable Horrors from Beyond? In this world, they failed. Rather than immediately ushering in the Apocalypse, though, these monsters subtly insinuate themselves into the human population at first, working to tear down the fabric of society and any potential resistance before bringing in larger numbers of their fellows. By the era that Ci3D describes, the process is almost complete: true humans are a dying race fighting a losing guerilla war, our cities have become vast nests of nightmares, and the planet's native ecology has been decimated by imported monstrosities. I have to add, though, in all seriousness, that this world is not for faint hearted players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I was re-reading part of Star Hero last night, making me think of "Fallen Earth" today. Rolling a d6+1 to determine the number of years till AH's release... LL - For some reason your comments sounded familiar. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2417&highlight=Horror Then I remembered. Off to search the old boards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Keith "man of a thousand names" Curtis has a really nice website. You can get it from his Member's Profile. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Found a few gems in the old boards: http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000085.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000120.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000122.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000156.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000179.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000210.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000219.html http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000219-2.html Looks like more than a few people were interested in the subject. The subgenre book would probably sell. Haven't had a chance to read any of the above posts, but I will do so. I would enjoy any open discussion people have here as well. Toadmaster frequented the AH threads, seen him around the new boards. I'm off in search of the Aftermath Book he was talking about, perhaps I'll get lucky on e-bay. ...Edited for clumsiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I am doubly humiliated: I forgot that I had brought up Horror World with C_Zeree in the past; and I forgot to mention Keith Curtis's excellent Savage Earth setting. Senility must be setting in. Speaking of forgetting, I hadn't realized that there were that many discussions of post-apoc gaming in the Old Forum archives. Interest appears to be fairly substantial. I have to agree with some of the comments I read there: an "Apocalypse HERO" genre book discussing the different ways that civilization could end and the consequences of each, and setting a game during the fall, after the collapse and/or beginning the reconstruction, would be useful to a broad range of post-apoc games and probably pretty sellable. And since Darren Watts seems to be behind the idea, we probably will see it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden For an unusual, and rather disturbing take on the fall of civilization, you might see if you can find a copy of the supplement Champions in 3-D and take a look at the "Horror World" section. Even though it was written up for Champions, the threat in this world is more environmental and not really defeatable through brute force, so the power level of the PCs is much less of an issue. Remember those investigators in H.P. Lovecraft's stories who barely prevent the evil cultists from summoning the unspeakable Horrors from Beyond? In this world, they failed. Rather than immediately ushering in the Apocalypse, though, these monsters subtly insinuate themselves into the human population at first, working to tear down the fabric of society and any potential resistance before bringing in larger numbers of their fellows. By the era that Ci3D describes, the process is almost complete: true humans are a dying race fighting a losing guerilla war, our cities have become vast nests of nightmares, and the planet's native ecology has been decimated by imported monstrosities. I have to add, though, in all seriousness, that this world is not for faint hearted players. No joke. I'm in a PBeM that is currently in this world. Mein Gott, what a mess! Of course, for general post-apocalyptic goodness, you can't beat The Morrow Project. Once you swallow the premise, there's a lot of fun to be hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 The old RPG Aftermath gave a lot of good background. I have also referenced Twilight 2000. For reading material that I have adapted to game settings, I have used both Battlefield Earth by L. Hubbard. and The Siege of Earth by John Mathew Faucette. I have also used a series called the Guardians, but I can't recall the author right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 A post-apoc setting that I like a lot, that most people don't seem to have heard of, is the Pelbar Cycle by Paul Williams (the first book is The Breaking Of Northwall). It's fascinatingly like a game campaign, in that as the books go along, the characters learn more about the world around them, and become more powerful/civilized, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeto Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Hey How about Morrow Project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I've seen two major types of "fallen Earth" settings. For lack of better terminology, I'll call them "negative focus" and "positive focus" viewpoints. In the negative focus game, the players' goal seems to be exploring (in a philosophical sense) the effects of civilization's destruction, and the characters' goal is generally just to stay alive. The characters tend to be morally ambiguous, largely because there is little distinction between good and evil. There's little, if anything, the characters can do to change the world. In other words, exploring the wretched squalor of the world is itself the purpose of the game. These games are often set fairly shortly after the Armageddon event, while the scattered remnants of humanity are still crawling in the mud wrestling with mutated rats for scraps. Examples of this type of world come mostly from gaming, as it would be hard to sell this kind of story to a film audience. I'm sure there must be some, however. In the positive focus game, the post-apocalypse world is used more as a backdrop rather than an end in itself. The Armageddon event often happened long ago, so the Earth has had some time to recover. There are usually new civilizations arisen, though of course they are usually smaller than today's civilizations, and different in nature. This game plays more like a fantasy game, with the characters more likely to do things for altruistic reasons than in the negative focus game. Examples include the film Logan's Run (especially once they escape the city) and the cartoon Thundarr The Barbarian. As you can probably tell, I really don't care for the negative focus game. I like to participate in stories where the PCs are heroic, and it's hard to be heroic when you're stuck in the first two levels of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSubtlety Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 My first baby steps as a GM were all done under Gamma World, and to this day, post apocalypse settings are my favorites. For a look at the ways the world could end, I strongly recommend: Exit Mundi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Originally posted by DocSubtlety My first baby steps as a GM were all done under Gamma World, and to this day, post apocalypse settings are my favorites. I too began my GMing career in Gamma World! With all those kids who had D&D, I was the only one with Gamma World, which made me very popular for a time. Funny that after all this time I've never read any post-holocaust fiction. (Well, I am Legend is a post plague tale, but that's as close as I get) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 A list perhaps There seems to be interest. I think I’ll start compiling a list of apocalyptic source material. I’d like to know what is out there and it would help me build my own worlds. I’ll create some categories, start filling in with books, RPG’s, web pages, and the like, so people can go browse at their leisure. I’m sure people have seen a lot out there, so if you think I’m missing something just drop a post, and the list will grow. Or if people have lists I would be interested in seeing them so I can compile. Not only will it be cool for us, Apocalyptians. But, whenever Daren or Steve or Mr. X begin writing Apocalypse Hero, they have the references section half way done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Originally posted by Blue Funny that after all this time I've never read any post-holocaust fiction. (Well, I am Legend is a post plague tale, but that's as close as I get) May I suggest the novels by James Blish, Black Easter and The Day after Judgement, also published in one volume as The Devil's Day. These stories deal with the coming of Armageddon in the modern day - the actual Armageddon, the Final Judgement, war between Heaven and Hell. In this story, though, Hell wins. Fascinating juxtaposition of twentieth century civilization with the devils of Dante and grimoire magic, and speculation of what Earth after the war would be like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 LASM List of Apocalyptic Source Material Apocalyptic RPGS: HERO Games Apocalypse HERO (Estimated: 2004 + 1d6) Steve Jackson Games - http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books GURPS Y2K GURPS Reign of Steel GURPS Horseclans GURPS War with the Chtorr GURPS Riverworld GURPS Ice Age White Wolf - http://www.white-wolf.com/engelweb/ehtml/index.html Engel Palladium Books – http://www.palladiumbooks.com/ Rifts RPG Objects - http://www.darwinrpg.com/ Darwin’s World Living Room Games - http://www.lrgames.com/ Earthdawn Far Future Enterprises - http://www.farfuture.net/ Twilight 2000 TimeLine - http://www.timelineltd.com/ Morrow Project Tri Tac - http://members.aol.com/TRITACGAMES/ Rogue 417 TSR now WotC - http://www.wizards.com/gammaworld/Welcome.asp Gamma World BRTC - http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20057.html (not the BRTC site but something close to the product) Down in Flames Warp World CORPS Apocalypse Fantasy Games Unlimited Aftermath Freedom Fighters Year of the Phoenix Apocalyptic Setting Web Sites Savage Earth - http://home.attbi.com/~TheGM/SE/savage.html Wasteland HERO - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/3440/rpgs.html Tiger’s GAMMA Hero - http://www.thewarp.net/war/tiger/gamhero.html Chronicles of the Wishes - http://www.winds.org/~arren/chronicles/index.html Apocalypse Now (Ways to end civilization as we know it) Items on the matter: General – Exit Mundi - http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm Pelbar Cycle (Book – Paul Williams) Lord of Light (Book – Roger Zelazny) World Enough, and Time (Book – James Kahn) Valdemar, Series (Book - Mercedes Lackey) Alien – Footfall (Book – Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle) Mote in God’s Eye (Book – Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle) Cthulhu Mythos, Many hint at apocalypse (Books - H.P. Lovecraft) The War Against the Chtorr, Series (Book – David Gerrold) The Guardians (Book – Ewell Greeson) X-Files (TV & Movie) Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man" (TV) Biblical/Spiritual – Black Easter & The Day After Judgement (Book - James Blish) Left Behind series (Book – Tim LaHaye & Jerry Jenkins) Bible: Revelations (Book) Astronomic Incident – Lucifer’s Hammer (Book – Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle) Deep Impact (Movie) Thundarr the Barbarian (TV Cartoon) Biological – Killer Virus – The Stand (Book - Steven King) ’48 (Book – James Herbert) The White Plague (Book – Frank Herbert & James Herbert) Eternity Road (Book - Jack McDevitt) 12 Monkeys (Movie) Plastic/Material Eater Virus – Andromeda Strain (Book – Michael Crichton) Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters (Book - Kit Pedler & Gerry Davis) Ill Wind (Book - Kevin J Anderson & Doug Beason) Ringworld Series (Books – Larry Niven) Environment – Cat’s Cradle (Book – Kurt Vonnegut) Fallen Angels (Book - Niven & Pournelle) Dust (Book - Charles Pellegrino) Waterworld (Movie) Quintet (Movie) Creature– Day of the Triffids (Book – John Wyndham) The Kraken Wakes (Book – John Wyndham) The Swarm (Movie) Kingdom of the Spiders (Movie) Phase 4 (Movie) THEM! (Movie) Machine – Terminator, All (Movies - Soon 3) Matrix, All (Movies, 3 By Dec 03) Nanotech – Assemblers of Infinity (Book - Kevin J Anderson & Doug Beason) Nuclear/War – Alas Babylon (Book – Pat Frank) A Boy and His Dog (Book – Harlan Ellison) Things to Come (Book – H.G. Wells) The Crysalids (Book – John Wyndham) The Postman (Book – David Brin) World Enough, and Time: New World Series (Book – James Kahn) C.A.D.S. (Book – John Seivert) The Survivalist (Book – Jerry Ahern) The Guardians (Book - Richard Austin) Horseclans, Series (Books – Robert Adams) Wingman (Book – Mack Maloney) Damnation Alley (Book – Roger Zelazny) A Canticle for Liebowitz (Book – Walter Miller) Gather, Darkness (Book – Fritz Lieber) Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (Movie) Mad Max, Series (Movies & there’s a new one in the works) Six-String Samurai (Movie) Logan’s Run (Movie) Things to Come (Movie) Def-Con 4 (Movie) Philosophical – Ubik (Book - Philip Dick) Undead – I am Legend (Book – Richard Matheson) Home Delivery (Short Story - Steven King) The Last of the Winnebagos (Book - Connie Willis) Night of the Living Dead (Movie) Resident Evil (Video Game) Night of the Comet (Movie) The World Has Moved On – Dark Tower, Series (Book – Steven King, now if King would only finish it!) Updated 19 May 03 - 12:43 a.m. PST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 From BTRC, add Warp World and CORPS Apocalypse. I wouldn't really call Stalking The Night Fantastic apocalyptic... it's more Men-In-Black humor-horrorish. I'd suggest adding the Thundarr The Barbarian cartoon, but I can't remember how the world ended in it. Cosmic accident I think. (Comet passing too close to the earth or something?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth I'd suggest adding the Thundarr The Barbarian cartoon, but I can't remember how the world ended in it. Cosmic accident I think. (Comet passing too close to the earth or something?) I can't recall the whole rap at this time, but... "In the year 1997, a comet passes between the Earth and the Moon...causing cosmic destruction." "2000 years later, a new world rises from the old...a world of savagery, super-science and sorcery." "...with his companions Ookla the Mock and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage and his fabulous Sun Sword against the forces of evil." "He is Thundarr the Barbarian!" Wow, I am such a dork! I'll post the real rap after I watch the 2 am episode I TIVOed this Saturday. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeazel Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long A post-apoc setting that I like a lot, that most people don't seem to have heard of, is the Pelbar Cycle by Paul Williams (the first book is The Breaking Of Northwall). It's fascinatingly like a game campaign, in that as the books go along, the characters learn more about the world around them, and become more powerful/civilized, etc. Hm. You know, I've actually read those books (or some of them, anyway; I didn't get through the whole series), and personally I really didn't like them. But it's been long enough since I've read them that I honestly don't remember now why I didn't like them. Hm. Maybe I'll have to take another look at them and see if my opinion has changed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Two books not listed, both of which would make damn fine RPG settings - and define another genre - are Lord of Light, by Roger Zelazny and Gather, Darkness by Fritz Lieber. These are both "apocalypse-by-design" where the old hi-tech world has *mostly* collapsed, for reasons not really explained - but the hint is that it was done on purpose - and those who control the remaining technology pose as priests or gods and pretend it's magic. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Taking notes... Actually Niven's Ringworld series also brings in a lot of post-Apoc ideas. It is post-Apoc on the ringworld, but still gives you a feel how bizarre things can get, in an already different locale. I never spell bizarre right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Positive & Negative Derek, I like your division of Apoc settings. Negative: I do believe there is a lot more leeway in the negative aspect though. Sure the world is rough, but adversity can breed heroes, and allow morals shine. Look at the examples we in the US have had with heroism fallowing tragedy. There are simple and extreme examples. An entire campaign can be centered around the PC’s trying to help rise a town out of squalor. They start by beating back the mutant hydra-rats, help find resources and restore fields, and eventually establish a safe haven, a seat of humanity where hope begins to shine again. Positive: Of course many love the mystique (blue body paint…drool) of forgotten civilization, and exploring the bones of past humanity. It allows fantasy and sci-fi to mingle, producing a melting pot of whatever the imagination desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Another post-apocalypse setting can be found in the C.A.D.S. series of books written by John Seivert. The series deals with the adventures of a top-secret experimental force of U.S. battlesuit troopers after the start of World War III ( sort of like Heinlein's Starship Troopers meets The Day After ). As far as environmental apocalypse goes, you can add the movie Quintet to the list of post-apocalypse movies. This Paul Newman picture deals with a group of people trying to survive in an ice-age environment. Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Don't forget this classic... If you haven't read A Canticle for Liebowitz, let me post a review from amazon.com... Walter M. Miller's acclaimed SF classic A Canticle for Leibowitz opens with the accidental excavation of a holy artifact: a creased, brittle memo scrawled by the hand of the blessed Saint Leibowitz, that reads: "Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels--bring home for Emma." To the Brothers of Saint Leibowitz, this sacred shopping list penned by an obscure, 20th-century engineer is a symbol of hope from the distant past, from before the Simplification, the fiery atomic holocaust that plunged the earth into darkness and ignorance. As 1984 cautioned against Stalinism, so 1959's A Canticle for Leibowitz warns of the threat and implications of nuclear annihilation. Following a cloister of monks in their Utah abbey over some six or seven hundred years, the funny but bleak Canticle tackles the sociological and religious implications of the cyclical rise and fall of civilization, questioning whether humanity can hope for more than repeating its own history. Divided into three sections--Fiat Homo (Let There Be Man), Fiat Lux (Let There Be Light), and Fiat Voluntas Tua (Thy Will Be Done)--Canticle is steeped in Catholicism and Latin, exploring the fascinating, seemingly capricious process of how and why a person is canonized. --Paul Hughes -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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