Hugh Neilson Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested I was hoping for a good line of adventures that I could steal. Oh well. Me, too - that's why I buy most Supers rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested It's certainly a good idea for beginners, but probably only for beginners who are picking up a game with the intention of running it for friends as an entry into roleplaying. If they play at a club or are moving on from other games then I would expect either someone there to be able to introduce them to the system, or else if they've played other games then HERO is not especially difficult to grasp. Possibly quite expensive, depending on the supplements you choose, but very simple at its heart. If there were to be a Pulp Sidekick, something playable out of the box with rules and adventures included, or Champions Sidekick compiled in a similar way, then wouldn't that just be Justice, Inc. or the original Champions? It seems unlikely to me that the company would reverse the current approach and go back to packaging games the way they did twenty years ago. A big difference would be greater consistency between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Is that the difference drawing people away from Champions? If so, pity. Did some searching on the web, there isn't much of a product line, and given how long it's been out that's not a good sign. Only one adventure, a city setting, a gadget book... yawn. I was hoping for a good line of adventures that I could steal. Oh well. Browse their stuff at your local gaming store, if you have one, their material is excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Is that the difference drawing people away from Champions? If so' date=' pity.[/quote'] It's the difference that will have converted my entire gaming group from Champions before the end of this year. Did some searching on the web, there isn't much of a product line, and given how long it's been out that's not a good sign. Only one adventure, a city setting, a gadget book... yawn. I think you missed the 10 or so companies doing licensed Superlink material for M&M [including Dave Mattingly's Blackwyrm Games]. Champions has 16 items in print M&M has 10 [plus another 90+ in the Superlink line - though most are pdf products.. I was hoping for a good line of adventures that I could steal. Oh well. There are several adventures. Ronin Arts publishes a bi-monthly 32 page Superline book that has from 1-4 short adventures in it. Church and State and A Matter of Family are two others I have purchased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested 2.0 has a lot of changes. It's even more Hero-like now. It's almost as if GR was targeting Hero fans when they rewrote the rules. I don't believe there's much you can't do in M&M now that you can in Hero. But if you like crunch Hero is still the way to go. Is 2.0 published?! I haven't been keeping up. I like the system for what it is, and love the material. But I'm pissed at their boards...when they reset it my login failed, I've submitted the problem to their board admins TWICE with NO response. I wonder if companies realize just how important their online boards are? If I can't go to those and they don't reply to my help messages, then my attitude is that I can't be bothered, I kinda feel like "screw them". Though I will buy their products if someone, such as you, points out something to me. Too bad for them, though. I have no idea what's going on with M&M and no user community to go to, which has left a bad taste in my mouth in some respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested It's the difference that will have converted my entire gaming group from Champions before the end of this year. I think you missed the 10 or so companies doing licensed Superlink material for M&M [including Dave Mattingly's Blackwyrm Games]. Champions has 16 items in print M&M has 10 [plus another 90+ in the Superlink line - though most are pdf products.. There are several adventures. Ronin Arts publishes a bi-monthly 32 page Superline book that has from 1-4 short adventures in it. Church and State and A Matter of Family are two others I have purchased. To be fair, if people like M&M better, than so be it...it's a different system. I don't think Hero should be M&M, or vice-versa. They play to different strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Browse their stuff at your local gaming store' date=' if you have one, their material is excellent.[/quote'] I agree. Freedom City is the best superhero city book ever written, IMO. The Annual and Foes of Freedom are also excellent. Lockdown [their supervillain prison] is a full of ideas, though I only have the pdf. And if you like the Nocturnals comic then the licensed book is worth picking up as well. I also enjoy Dave's The Algernon Files very much. Even if you don't like the system you can't say Green Ronin doesn't publish quality material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Is 2.0 published?! I haven't been keeping up. I like the system for what it is' date=' and love the material. But I'm pissed at their boards...when they reset it my login failed, I've submitted the problem to their board admins TWICE with NO response. I wonder if companies realize just how important their online boards are? If I can't go to those and they don't reply to my help messages, then my attitude is that I can't be bothered, I kinda feel like "screw them". Though I will buy their products if someone, such as you, points out something to me. Too bad for them, though. I have no idea what's going on with M&M and no user community to go to, which has left a bad taste in my mouth in some respects.[/quote'] One of our [former] players was part of a playtest group for 2.0. I read his copy of the new rules. 2.0 will be out at Gen Con. The book has really been rewritten to grab Hero player's attention. They have added MANY Hero things [such as multipowers]. I can only offer my condolences about the message boards. I don't post there. Green Ronin is a small company [few employees than Hero]. Try sending an emial to Steve Kenson. You might get a better response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested To be fair' date=' if people like M&M better, than so be it...it's a different system. I don't think Hero should be M&M, or vice-versa. They play to different strengths.[/quote'] M&M is written toward Hero now. They are definately going after the superhero market 100%. Unfortunately the majority of gamers prefer non-crunchy games. Hero is specifically written toward crunch now, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Hey, MitchellS, did they "fix" skill prerequisites, having to have one skill to have another (or talent or whatever)? (I put fix in quotes simply because I realize that to others' way of thinking it's fine as is...) Oh, by the way, I did a template for Metacreator for M&M way back, it'd have to be updated. I was kind of bummed because nobody seemed to want to help out and test it and help with some printing I didn't want to do, so it is like 85% done as of v1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested One of our [former] players was part of a playtest group for 2.0. I read his copy of the new rules. 2.0 will be out at Gen Con. The book has really been rewritten to grab Hero player's attention. They have added MANY Hero things [such as multipowers]. I can only offer my condolences about the message boards. I don't post there. Green Ronin is a small company [few employees than Hero]. Try sending an emial to Steve Kenson. You might get a better response. Thanks for the advice; as it came up, I am trying again so I messaged customer service this time. If I don't hear anything, I will try messaging Steve, good idea. As to 2.0, great, I will get it at GenCon, yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Hey, MitchellS, did they "fix" skill prerequisites, having to have one skill to have another (or talent or whatever)? (I put fix in quotes simply because I realize that to others' way of thinking it's fine as is...) Oh, by the way, I did a template for Metacreator for M&M way back, it'd have to be updated. I was kind of bummed because nobody seemed to want to help out and test it and help with some printing I didn't want to do, so it is like 85% done as of v1. Many skills have been changed, as have most feats, and super-feats. Lots of things have been done away with. I don't completely recall if skill prerequisites have changed off the top of my head though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested Thanks for the advice; as it came up, I am trying again so I messaged customer service this time. If I don't hear anything, I will try messaging Steve, good idea. As to 2.0, great, I will get it at GenCon, yay! I wish I were going so I could get my copy there [as well as Pulp Hero and Teen Champions]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested M&M is written toward Hero now. They are definately going after the superhero market 100%. Unfortunately the majority of gamers prefer non-crunchy games. Hero is specifically written toward crunch now' date=' IMO.[/quote'] I agree Hero is written towards crunch...I think that's a good thing, it's just a niche market. As I said in another thread, maybe they have to reset their profitability expectations. Anyway, I would add, 2.0 might be quite interesting because we messed around with 1.0 and we didn't give it a fair run but, still, it's clear there was improvement needed, so we'll need to pick it up and retry with 2, when time permits. FYI, I found M&M not balanced to my liking. Although it wasn't too hard, just time-consuming, to tweak to taste. I hate the one-punch aspects of it. Of course, many people like that...but I think it creates an unfair comparison to say that M&M combat is faster than HERO combat...of course it's faster if the combat ends quickly because people go down sooner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested I wish I were going so I could get my copy there [as well as Pulp Hero and Teen Champions]. I'd offer to pick a book up for "a few" people but I know what that would turn into! I don't have a STR of 25 or a magic bag of holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested I'd offer to pick a book up for "a few" people but I know what that would turn into! I don't have a STR of 25 or a magic bag of holding. Considering Pulp Hero is supposedly larger than Fantasy Hero I don't blame you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Re: New HG book concept - opinions requested By the way, they fixed the board problem right away today over at Green Ronin, so that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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