I could watch him get slapped around all day

[Enforcer84]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I forgot Lobo!

Supes can take Lobo, that'd be cool.

[Phil]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Hmm, some really commonality with other people here, although I'd like to take a slightly different tack. I'd like to see the writers of the following get slapped around a little bit for taking what is a good idea and making us poor, innocent comic fans suffer their output:

 

1) Batman - I love Batman. Love him. Best comic character ever.... when well written. When badly written, the worst. Overbearing, insufferable, undefeatable, smug and cocky. It's not even the Batgod thing, because from time to time that works (e.g. early Morrison JLA vs. White martians).

 

2) Authority - Again, I actually like the Authority. Well, I did. Recently sat down and read first 5 trade paperbacks in sequence, and boy does the story decline. The early ones where they're establishing their place, and there's real doubt and conflict are great. Later on they fall into the JLA trap - there's no-one left for them to fight, so you have to invent bigger and sillier villains.

 

3) Wolverine - Just put him back where he was, a moderate martial artist, with a modicum of super-power and a bad attitude. Sort the fanboys out by publishing a "Wolverine vs....." comic book where ever week he gets his *** kicked by a different character. Starting with Captain America and working down.

 

Oh, and while we're at it. Supes, Captain Marvel and The Fantastic Four for being clean-cut heroes. The Punisher, Judge Dredd and Ghost Rider for being anti-heroes. Aww, hell, let's face it. Every comic book character needs to have a good slap.

[jediklingon]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Between this thread and the "Cap vs. Midnighter" thread, I got to wondering.

What would happen if Midnighter got into a fight he absolutely could not win?

I would love to see this.

 

"I've already run this battle a million times in my mind. I know every move you're going to make. And I can't beat you. No matter what I do, you're going to kill me. I just s**t myself."

 

:celebrate :celebrate :celebrate

[nexus]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Between this thread and the "Cap vs. Midnighter" thread, I got to wondering.

What would happen if Midnighter got into a fight he absolutely could not win?

I would love to see this.

 

"I've already run this battle a million times in my mind. I know every move you're going to make. And I can't beat you. No matter what I do, you're going to kill me. I just s**t myself."

 

:celebrate :celebrate :celebrate

 

Yours is so much better than mine.

 

Honestly that is one thing that kind of bores me about The Authority. There's nothing to challenge them, and all their battles feel so anticlimatic. Its like the old "Brown Hornet"

 

"And using their awesome Supa Powas, they manage to escape....unharmed. Oh and completle pown everybody in gory ways"

 

Most of the battles unless they are with equally silly overpowered beings have 0 tension, which, for me is something a combat needs. Even if I know logically the Justice League or Avengers aren't going to lose, emotionally I like to feel like they might. Like they had to work for it.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

 

- Wolverine: Nucleon would like to differ on this one; He can't. His weapon of choice? A very, very mad Hulk.

 

 

In heat. And stewed to the gills on whatever kind of dope you need to get him interested in #$#$ing Logan in the first place...

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Oh, and once every couple years, Superman needs to put the smackdown on Martian Manhunter and Captain Marvel. Not that I don't like the characters (I do), but certain heirachies need to be periodically maintained and canonized.

 

Keith "Oh, and Lobo. He needs to beat up Lobo." Curtis

 

A tangent, but worth saying....

 

There was an elseworlds (I canna rememeber which one captain) that really had a great Jonz/Clark moment. Half the JLA were bad guys, and the two halves were fighting each other, and Jonz and Supes squared off - and during the dialog Jonz says something to the effect of "Why don't you join us, we are both alien, these are not are people, we are merely visitors to this planet" - then Superman nails him hard and responds "You are a visitor, I am an adopted son".

 

That, to me, sums up those two in a nutshell.

 

 

And yeah, Lobo needs to be trashed.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Between this thread and the "Cap vs. Midnighter" thread, I got to wondering.

What would happen if Midnighter got into a fight he absolutely could not win?

I would love to see this.

 

"I've already run this battle a million times in my mind. I know every move you're going to make. And I can't beat you. No matter what I do, you're going to kill me. I just s**t myself."

 

:celebrate :celebrate :celebrate

 

I always liked this comment from a thread a long time ago:

 

Midnighter ......... would have no chance vs. Karate Kid. He'd observe KK tearing people like Captain America apart effortlessly' date=' and his battle computer would run 1,000,000 combat scenarios in a split second - and he'd be stunned to see himself losing in every one of those scenarios Even the ones that begin with "in this scenario, Karate Kid is blindfolded, bound and has boat anchors chained to his feet."[/quote']

[tinman]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Between this thread and the "Cap vs. Midnighter" thread, I got to wondering.

What would happen if Midnighter got into a fight he absolutely could not win?

I would love to see this.

 

"I've already run this battle a million times in my mind. I know every move you're going to make. And I can't beat you. No matter what I do, you're going to kill me. I just s**t myself."

 

:celebrate :celebrate :celebrate

 

To which Spider Man would respond "Ooookaaay..." and then proceed to web him up

[Susano]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Between this thread and the "Cap vs. Midnighter" thread, I got to wondering.

What would happen if Midnighter got into a fight he absolutely could not win?

I would love to see this.

 

"I've already run this battle a million times in my mind. I know every move you're going to make. And I can't beat you. No matter what I do, you're going to kill me. I just s**t myself."

 

Sounds like Midnighter just ran into Son Goku.

 

[Stone]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

1) Batman - Batgod has become WAY over the top uber-character "I can beat anyone" character. Please have Nightwing or Robin (anyone) drop him....alot.

 

2) Wolverine - I agree...way over used and kinda ushered in the whole anti-hero era. He also has become WAY over the top compared to his abilities/powers. I would love to see Cyclops or Nightcrawler smack him around.

 

3) Cable - gotta agree here too. Just for being a general pest. What powers does this guy really have anyway? I've seen some minor TK, but nothing that should have made him the force he became. I mean, at least Capt America had a story behind his rise to legend status.

[Mr. Negative]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I don't know, I'd kind of like to have about 94% of both the DC and the Marvel Universes smacked down by "Super-hero Deflation Man".

 

I mean, I really like supers like Spidey, Luke Cage, etc. which have a strong, consistent conception, and a basically static level of "bad-***-ness". I'm so totally tired of the constant power expansion, and the convenient powering up (and down) of heroes to allow certain story lines to be developed.

 

My biggest pleasure in the new Avengers series (other than Jessica Drew--wow!!!) is the constant reminder (not just by Spidey) that Wolverine isn't the be-all and end-all of superheroes. He's a scrapper, he heals quick, and he has sharp things. That's it. Nothing to prevent him from getting tossed out a window, or smacked across the neighborhood by someone.

 

I was never a fan of cosmic story-lines in the first place, but what's really bugging me is the constant intrusion and intermixing of cosmic/epic characters with relatively normal/street level ones. I don't mind the "crime fighting detective" Batman, nor, truth be told, do I mind the "plan for every eventuality" Batman that is on the League (I kind of like it). However, pick one or the other. If the guy has implemented plans to defeat/monitor every superhero on earth, then he's NOT going to get smacked around by some loser with a bag on his head.

 

I'd LOOOOVE to see every single hero/villain in both Marvel and DC engage in an epic bout of "pecking-order" smacking. All the guys who are going to be operating on "street level" get smacked back down to that level, and all the guys who are going to be on planet-cop duty do the smacking.

 

If I had to name names:

 

Wolverine-he's basically a short guy with knives who heals up quick. What couldn't a flame-thrower handle?

 

Zantanna--what's it going to be? Sorceress Supreme of GNIKLAT SDRAWKCAB, or cute magician? I like her; I love the fishnet hose. However, when the spell-casting hottie becomes the crux of the Justice League's soul searching, something has gone horribly awry.

 

Deathstroke--He uses most of his brain. So what? What's he got that gets through bullet-proof skin? Does using more of your brain make you immune to magic AND telepathy?

 

Hulk--look, if you can change into your alternate ID quicker than a bullet can leave a gun next to your head, you shouldn't get the points for "Only in Hero ID", should you?

 

Batman--If you're the world's greatest detective, you don't really have to beat up supervillains (or your friends) yourself, do you? Just figure out their weaknesses, and hand them over to your pals. "Flash, here's some Kryptonite. Drop it into Supe's shorts if he gets uppity. I'm outta here." Given that superhumans have tagged you more than once, how are you still ambulatory anyway?

 

Green Arrow AND Hawkeye. I love Ollie, I hate Clint. Fact remains, they shoot freaking arrows! That's it! Put them up against the villains and threats that are appropriate, or get rid of them. We might as well have Hand Grenade Man (yes, Tick reference).

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

That is a problem that Marvel and DC have.

 

The big problem is that the JLA and the Avengers have always been about the highlight characters of their respective worlds for the most part. Unfortunately that means that their power levels have varied significantly.

 

To my mind, the Avengers should be a specially assembled team of the most high power heroes the Marvel Universe has to offer, chosen carefully to present a balanced ranged of powers. Ditto for the Justice League. They should be the raw power team of the DC universe, handling the heavyweight threats. To be in the Justice League means having firepower and experience to use that firepower.

 

And Batman would not be interested in the Justice League. To my mind, Batman has always been about a lesser amount of power applied with the precision and finess of a scapel. To my mind, the Outsiders should have become the team that Batman formed in response to the Justice League. Weaker powers but more suited towards Batman's more shadowy style. Less power but applied more carefully.

[keithcurtis]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I don't know' date=' I'd kind of like to have about 94% of both the DC and the Marvel Universes smacked down by "Super-hero Deflation Man".[/quote']

Like this?

 

Keith "run away!" Curtis

[Super Squirrel]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Do I have to pick a character? Can I pick, say, the manager of the comic for not doing a good job with storylines?

[assault]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

My selection is pretty standard:

1. The Authority for being pseudo-kewl twinkies. Probably by Lobo. Fatally.

2. Wolverine for being overexposed.

3. Lobo.

4. Cable. To be expelled from the Marvel Universe.

5. Gambit. Ditto.

6. Batman. By Ted Kord.

7. Punisher. By Daredevil.

8. Captain America. By Captain France.

[Mentor]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I pick The X Men. The only thing "uncanny" about them is how they accomplish anything with all the self centered whining, intrigues and backstabbing they are engaged in. From Cyclops' pouting diffidence, Storm's arrogance, Wolverine's homicidal insanity, Professor Xavier's apparant ineptitude for all his power, and countless angsty teen mutants of varying stripes, the X men have never, in twenty five years, struck me as heroic. The Justice League (the real and original good one) or the Avengers (before they were struck by the insanity ray) need to fly down and open up a warehouse full of "whupass" on the X Men.

 

That was rather cathartic.

[Fox1]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

the X men have never' date=' in twenty five years, struck me as heroic. [/quote']

 

Let's see... I stopped reading X-Men in 79, or 26 years ago.

 

I wonder if the say thing ticked us off

 

When it comes right down to it, the only run of the X-Men I thought worth having was Adams although the first couple dozen New Uncanny X-Men after #96 was ok and introduced some interesting character concepts.

[mikesama]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I pick The X Men. The only thing "uncanny" about them is how they accomplish anything with all the self centered whining, intrigues and backstabbing they are engaged in. From Cyclops' pouting diffidence, Storm's arrogance, Wolverine's homicidal insanity, Professor Xavier's apparant ineptitude for all his power, and countless angsty teen mutants of varying stripes, the X men have never, in twenty five years, struck me as heroic. The Justice League (the real and original good one) or the Avengers (before they were struck by the insanity ray) need to fly down and open up a warehouse full of "whupass" on the X Men.

 

That was rather cathartic.

 

Just remember the Marvel food chain.

 

If the Xmen can't beat it/them Spider man can. (Yes spider man is good enough to take down an X Men team!) On that note get the Xmen spanked good by Spidey as he'd be funnier about kicking all thier buts.

 

If Spidey can't take them down, call the Avengers.

 

If the Avengers can't get it done, call the Fantastic Four.

 

If the Fantastic Four can't get it done, wait for the universe to reset.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

In truth, the big problem with the X-Men is that they're really not suited to be in the Marvel Universe. The Marvel Universe was a proto-Bronze universe from the beginning (or at least Stan Lee's kicking off what we know now as the Marvel Universe). The concept of the X-Men came from a science fiction book, or a couple of them.

 

Most superhero teams are ultimately about preserving the status quo from various threats. The X-Men are one of the exceptions. They were all about changing the status quo for the better, and built into their fundamental concept was the idea of the human race changing and evolving into a higher species, homo sapiens superior, mutants.

 

The problem with the X-Men is that the Marvel Universe to some extent remains a status quo universe, somewhat different than our own in some areas but ultimately familiar to everyone. All of the fantastic technology that Reed Richards and Tony Stark invents never fundamentally changes the world at all. For all that people of Earth know about alien worlds and other dimensions nothing ever really happens because of it.

 

As a result, the X-Men who are all about dealing with change and evolution and so on, are stuck in a universe that doesn't fundamentally allow it. They're stuck with nothing ever improving, nothing ever changing, for better or for worse. The threat of a serious mutant pogrom can't happen, because it would screw up the rest of the universe and they can't really make any progress anywhere because again it would sort of screw things up. Only in alternate timelines is anything interesting allowed to happen. The X-Men really belong in their own universe which is allowed to deviate significantly from our own universe due to the existance of the x-factor, and where more or less all superpowers derive from the x-factor gene complex.

 

And frankly I don't see the infighting in the X-Men as being all that much worse than what goes on in the Avengers. From what happened to Pym to what happened to the Scarlett Witch and the Vision, to what is going on now in the Avengers, I think they've lost a lot of their heroic advantage. The main advantage is the Avengers tend not to angst, though Spiderman is the past grandmaster of angst.

[Stone]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

Let's see... I stopped reading X-Men in 79, or 26 years ago.

 

I wonder if the say thing ticked us off

 

When it comes right down to it, the only run of the X-Men I thought worth having was Adams although the first couple dozen New Uncanny X-Men after #96 was ok and introduced some interesting character concepts.

 

I stopped reading shortly after the Claremont/Byrne/Austin team broke up. Although I did not like how Byrne treated Nightcrawler, and from everything I have read, he was a big fan of Wolverine and tried to make him a bigger part of the story...so maybe it's his fault!

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

I stopped reading shortly after the Claremont/Byrne/Austin team broke up. Although I did not like how Byrne treated Nightcrawler' date=' and from everything I have read, he was a big fan of Wolverine and tried to make him a bigger part of the story...so maybe it's his fault![/quote']

Out of curiousity, what did Byrne do to Nightcrawler? I mean I know of his desecrations of other characters, but this is a new one for me.

 

Byrne and Claremont are to me people who need to be slapped around a bit.

[Enforcer84]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

The X-Men exist in their own little reality. Where everyone hates them. They are a big "After School Special". of course they could never succeed in their mission to bring humans and mutants together, becasue they already were. The mutants are still human, but many want to be separate. So the X-Men spent all their time fighting a secret war against other mutants, never stepping into the spotlight save for to lecture the rest of the world about their biases and prejudices, even though it seems that each and every mutant feels they are the next step in evolution and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

The mutants are still human' date=' but many want to be separate. So the X-Men spent all their time fighting a secret war against other mutants, never stepping into the spotlight save for to lecture the rest of the world about their biases and prejudices, even though it seems that each and every mutant feels they are the next step in evolution and the greatest thing since sliced bread.[/quote']

 

Ain't that the truth. Of course, the mutants are vastly cooler than boring old humanity, so it's okay for them to preach racial separatism.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

If the Xmen can't beat it/them Spider man can. (Yes spider man is good enough to take down an X Men team!)

 

Very true-- and a staggeringly effective trouncer of X-men he is indeed!

 

Forgive me for not knowing much about comic books; I wasn't into them as a kid, and so I never got into them as an adult (I have been haunting this thread and others to learn more about them so as to better understand some of the conversations on this board), but this one I saw happen some years back.

 

I was waiting to pick up my nephew from Scouts and he had left a comic book in my saddlebags. To pass the time, I read it. I don't remember what it was, but it was full of super-heroes and villains all packed into a dome on some planet for reasons I don't remember. I _do_ remember that some bad guy was having words with the X-men's leader (Doctor X?-- the guy in the wheelchair) and Spiderman overheard it and decided to warn the other heroes.

 

All the X-men were there, and they all leapt into battle to stop him. I think the entire 'battle' lasted four panels. Spidey went through them like some kind of sweeping Move-By. He didn't even slow down, and all the Xes were sudued.

 

Even if you never read comics, you just like Spiderman. It made me all warm and fuzzy.

 

 

Duke

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

 

While I haven't read much with many of these characters in years...

 

Wolverine - you know, I think the original *purpose* of Wolverine was to get slapped around. I mean, he's perfectly set up to be the ultimate Worf - unbreakable bones, healing factor - you can zap him, bash him, throw him through walls to show how tough and dangerous the villains are, without real lasting harm. He can fulfill that purpose and be reasonable competent, including being sneaky enough to find the villains on his own and get creamed, whereupon the villains will put him in some very icky deathtrap, and X-men will arrive to rescue him (probably part way through the deathtrap), Wolvie will heal and join team to finish off villains. Ta dah, that's how I think he should have been treated, not as uber-super macho ninja cool dude.

 

Punisher - he's a guy. With guns. Even in his own title, he should never show up someone like Daredevil or Spider-Man. The best he should manage is to delay them enough to get away. On a good day. When Spidey has a cold.

 

Cable, Gambit, Shatterstar, Bishop, et al - DEATHY DEATH DEATH!!!! These are the sort of folks that the X-men should have traded away to the Brood in exchange for leaving Earth alone.

 

Batman, Deathstroke - I like these guys, at least I did back in the day, but they've gone too far into "super-competent/dumbass" mode. Bats especially - one minute he's taking down Darkseid, next minute he's having trouble with two hoods in an alleyway. I really enjoyed Batman in his own titles back before Knightfall, when he was spending time as, you know, Batman - fighting street crime, the mob, killers, etc.

 

Lobo - just...worthless. He should be smacked down by Ambush Bug. While Ambush bug is literally blindfolded with one arm behind his back.