radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 As I am building an NPC for an upcomming game I find myself looking at the use of Martial Arts with Telekinesis... Does TK use 'Ranged' or 'Hand to Hand' or none at all? I'm thinking that the HtH moves are more appropriate, but they are, in fact, used 'at range' so does that change things and how? I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to use MA with TK, something like Choke Hold is perfect for Vader's famous attack, and Shove is a natural as well. I come to you seeking sage advice, please indulge me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts I don't see 'Hand To Hand' being a reasonable limitation myself, and Telekinesis is already a ranged power. I don't see why you couldn't use TK with MA, treating it like a chi power or something. Or even being a martial artist who happens to have a mutant power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts The rules under telekinesis say: "However, at the GM's option, he can us it [telekinesis] to perform any Combat Maneuver for which he has paid Character Points, though he must have the Fine Manipulation Adder to perform maneuvers requiring finesse (such as Nerve Strike)." That implies to me it uses the HTH martial arts [due to never strike]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts I don't see 'Hand To Hand' being a reasonable limitation myself, and Telekinesis is already a ranged power. I don't see why you couldn't use TK with MA, treating it like a chi power or something. Or even being a martial artist who happens to have a mutant power. Sorry, to clarify, I meant which category of Martial Arts would it use, HtH or Ranged Martial Arts? Ok, assuming then that one can use 'HtH' martial arts moves with TK, does the character then take range penalties? I would assume so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts The rules under telekinesis say: "However' date=' at the GM's option, he can us it [telekinesis'] to perform any Combat Maneuver for which he has paid Character Points, though he must have the Fine Manipulation Adder to perform maneuvers requiring finesse (such as Nerve Strike)." That implies to me it uses the HTH martial arts [due to never strike]. Sweet, thanks, I am still working from 4th Ed, and it says no such thing under TK. I've been stopped at every turn of buying a 5ER lately! Again, same question though, does the character take range penalties then? I would assume so... And should the character have to make a fine manipulation roll in order to perform these moves, or is it just good enough that he has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Sweet, thanks, I am still working from 4th Ed, and it says no such thing under TK. I've been stopped at every turn of buying a 5ER lately! Again, same question though, does the character take range penalties then? I would assume so... And should the character have to make a fine manipulation roll in order to perform these moves, or is it just good enough that he has it? Bummer on the no-buy on the Fifth . . . And I'd say that you take Range penalties, as TK does so. Even with a BoECV, you'll have to be penalized by Range. For a No Range Penalties, you'll have to buy the Advantage. And oh, I'd build something like this as a HTH MA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik_nilsson Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts The rules don't say much more than that it's up to the GM to decide what's allowed. The rules disallow move by, and such things. If it were my campaign I would rule that TK were the same thing as if you were standing next to the victim. In other words, range penalties. Fine manipulation is only required to perform delicate task, like pressing a nerve point. Most martial maneuvers aren't that demanding, so I would rule that all other martial maneuvers could be done without fine manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Bummer on the no-buy on the Fifth . . . And I'd say that you take Range penalties, as TK does so. Even with a BoECV, you'll have to be penalized by Range. For a No Range Penalties, you'll have to buy the Advantage. And oh, I'd build something like this as a HTH MA. Yeah, I could have gotten a 5E for $20, which I know is a steal, but I want that 5ER!!! Called a couple stores, one had it on the shelf, on sale! went there, it was gone... called more stores, no one has one in stock... Range penalties make total sense to me... though he has both an Aid and an Absorption that go into his TK [making him a powerhouse if he ever actually maxes out] So I would think some PSL vs. Range would be nice to have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Yeah, I could have gotten a 5E for $20, which I know is a steal, but I want that 5ER!!! Called a couple stores, one had it on the shelf, on sale! went there, it was gone... called more stores, no one has one in stock... Range penalties make total sense to me... though he has both an Aid and an Absorption that go into his TK [making him a powerhouse if he ever actually maxes out] So I would think some PSL vs. Range would be nice to have... . . . Power gaming . . . Sweet . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Sweet, thanks, I am still working from 4th Ed, and it says no such thing under TK. I've been stopped at every turn of buying a 5ER lately! Again, same question though, does the character take range penalties then? I would assume so... And should the character have to make a fine manipulation roll in order to perform these moves, or is it just good enough that he has it? You take range penalties just as you would for any TK action. The fine manipulation is only required when doing finesse maneuvers, so I'd only require the roll for a nerve strike or choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooligan x Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Yeah, I could have gotten a 5E for $20, which I know is a steal, but I want that 5ER!!! Called a couple stores, one had it on the shelf, on sale! went there, it was gone... called more stores, no one has one in stock... I'm sure Steve and Co. ship to Canada. The online store has the bargain priced damaged copy for sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts . . . Power gaming . . . Sweet . . . Ahh, sometimes it's warranted... Not to mention fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts You take range penalties just as you would for any TK action. The fine manipulation is only required when doing finesse maneuvers' date=' so I'd only require the roll for a nerve strike or choke.[/quote'] So he'd have to roll to hit, and roll for Fine Manipulation for things like Choke and Nerve Strike... Seems to me that his FM roll will be better than his to hit roll, and that just seems a little funny to me, guess I'll have to give him some more CSLs with TK. Thanks Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts I'm sure Steve and Co. ship to Canada. The online store has the bargain priced damaged copy for sale... Thanks man, but I prefer to pay full price for an undamaged copy, not to mention I am not in good shape to be buying things over the internet I'll find one here... eventually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Ok' date=' assuming then that one can use 'HtH' martial arts moves with TK, does the character then take range penalties? I would assume so...[/quote'] Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Sweet, thanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Thread necromancy at its finest... Would you require a Weapon Element "Use art with Telekinesis"? In comparison, a weapon is normally used with Standard Maneuvers at no additional cost beyond the WF (and/or the cost of the weapon in superheroic games); to use it with Martial Maneuvers the appropriate Weapon Element must be purchased. radioKAOS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Yes, I would require a weapon element for telekinesis (unless of course he only wanted to be able to use his martial arts with TK and that's therefore his default element.) Using martial arts with your mind at range is at least as different from using it with your body as using it with your sword is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted October 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Thread necromancy at its finest... Would you require a Weapon Element "Use art with Telekinesis"? In comparison, a weapon is normally used with Standard Maneuvers at no additional cost beyond the WF (and/or the cost of the weapon in superheroic games); to use it with Martial Maneuvers the appropriate Weapon Element must be purchased. Truly you are a master of the dark arts. I did purchase the WE for TK, I think that's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted October 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Yes' date=' I would require a weapon element for telekinesis (unless of course he [i']only[/i] wanted to be able to use his martial arts with TK and that's therefore his default element.) Using martial arts with your mind at range is at least as different from using it with your body as using it with your sword is. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts At its root Telekinesis is really just STR with the RANGED advantage applied to it. If using the option to use Martial Arts with TK, you can use either HtH or Ranged Manuevers. The only thing TK is doing is determining an origin point for the attacks other than from the character directly, and the amount of STR behind the attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Yes' date=' I would require a weapon element for telekinesis (unless of course he [i']only[/i] wanted to be able to use his martial arts with TK and that's therefore his default element.) Using martial arts with your mind at range is at least as different from using it with your body as using it with your sword is. My thoughts exactly, even to the "TK as the default weapon element" idea. I did consider the possibility of an argument for the other option, and was wondering if anyone would put it forth. I'll go with TK as Weapon Element. It fits elegantly with the system as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted October 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts I'll go with TK as Weapon Element. It fits elegantly with the system as is. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Now for a mechanical/FX question: Would TK, Only for Combat Maneuvers be a valid Chi power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Re: Telekinesis and Martial Arts Agreed. Hm. Just spotted this in 5ER: Other than Grab and "punch" (Strike), a character cannot use Telekinesis to perform any other Combat Maneuvers. However, at the GM's option, he can use it to perform any Combat Maneuver for which he has paid Character Points, though he must have the Fine Manipulation Adder to perform maneuvers requiring finesse (such as Nerve Strike). For purposes of using them with Telekineses, characters may "buy" Standard and Optional Combat Maneuvers for 3 Character Points each. But regardless of this, characters cannot use Telekinesis to perform Move Bys/Throughs. The last I definitely understand, though if the TK was bought with feedback as a Side Effect I might reconsider. But, according to this, it is purely GM's option to allow TK with other maneuvers. I'd allow it, but require the Weapon Element for Martial Maneuvers as discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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