Valdorian Characters

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Divine Sorcerer of the Radiant Dawn

8 STR

8 DEX

14 CON

10 BODY

15 INT

16 EGO

12 PRE

8 COM

2 PD

3 ED

2 SPD

5 REC

32 END

23 STUN

 

Abilities: +1 with Short Swords, AK: Ports of Il-Ryveras 11-, AK: Ancorable Beachs of Il-Ryveras 8-, KS: Stories and Legends of Il-Ryveras 11-, KS: History of the Radiant Dawn 13-, Teamwork 11-, Divine Sorcery 15-, KS: Divine Sorcery 14-, Summon 100 point Divine Servant, 125 Endurance Reserve with 25 REC

 

75+ Disadvantages: Distinctive Features: Mark of the Radiant Dawn, Physical Limitation: Sea Legs, Psychological Limitation: Code of the Radiant Dawn

 

Equipment: Short Sword, Padded Cloth Cuirass

 

Notes: The duty of the Divine Sorcerer is to provide all prestly duties aboard the ship and when necessary summon the necessary Divine Servant needed. One of the duties of the Divine Sorcerer is to maintain the protective circles. Four key locations on the ship have a protective circle upon them. Those locations are the wheel, the cargo hold, the crow's nest, and a large circle that extends from amidship to aft. The purpose of the circles is to serve multiple purposes. The primary purpose is to protect strategic locations from enemy sorcerers. The secondary purpose is to provide protective areas to contain a summoned creature if one is needed. All circles when reconstructed are given a week to make with the best materials around. Every generation of crew contains five Favor Holders. It is considered an honor to be appointed to the position of a Favor Holder. When the Divine Sorcerer owes favor, one of the Favor Holder takes control of that favor until the duty has been fullfilled.

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Speaking of which' date=' has anyone written up a PC sorcerer using the house rules from Valdorian Age? It seems to me they place sorcery solidly into NPC-only territory, and I believe that's intentional, but I'm curious if anyone has been willing to bite the bullet and try to run one as a PC.[/quote']

 

Dunno about Valdorian age, since no-one I know is running/playing it, but in my game I have restricted mages in similar ways. Mage was never the most popular choice, but players still chose them.

 

The key, I think, is GM fairness. Since magic was restricted, it was less common - so the players could generally expect that if they had to rob the house of jon the generic merchant, he probably did not have magiclal protections. And they learned in play that if he DID - then it probably meant something fishy was going on.

 

In such a setting the mage player gets the benefit of "rareness" - in other words, if the guard captain starts behaving strangely, "he's been mind-controlled" is not the first thing that pops into people's heads. Most places are not guarded agains magical snooping or magical intrusion. However, the restrictions meant combat magic was a pretty dicey proposition. The party mage then became "oracle, magical enhancement and dealer in wierd stuff" not "mobile fire support platform".

 

Which is how I like it

 

cheers, Mark

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

The party mage then became "oracle' date=' magical enhancement and dealer in wierd stuff" not "mobile fire support platform".[/quote']

 

Well, in Valdorian Age, socrery is useless in direct combat: the five minute casting time -- or SEVERE negatives to the skill roll -- takes care of that. Sorcery also isn't useful for "buffing" characters during a fight, or providing any kind of long-term noncombat support such as invisibility or recon, or performing any kind of task that takes an extended period (using elementals to build a bridge or tear down a wall, for example): the requirement that everything cost full Endurance, every Phase, combined with the severe limitations on the Recovery of that Endurance, takes care of that.

 

So what do you do with a weapon that a) takes five minutes to power up, and has such enormous power requirements that you can only keep it running for a very brief period?

 

I assume everyone here has seen Real Genius.

 

Sorcerers will become snipers. That's really the thing they're best suited for, under the Valdorian Age house rules. With the cost required just to be a sorcerer (around 60 points, minimum, for the required Summon, Multipower, and two skills), combined with the low point level on which the Valdorian Age PCs are built (50 + 75 in Disads), they aren't going to be useful for much else. NPCs, of course, could potentially be far more flexible (and I assume they would be, or they'd not pose much of a threat).

[Old Man]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

There's nothing wrong with sorcerers becoming snipers--though the word I would use is 'assassin'. It's mostly a question of having the right SFX. The track-down-the-evil-wizard-who-slew-so-and-so-with-foul-magicks plot is a staple of S&S.

 

PC sorcerers in VA would also be perfectly suited for the support role, given enough prep time. ("Wait--before you enter that lair, let me bestow upon you the Blessing of Mxw'lghwtn.") And I don't recall anything that would prevent them from 'supporting' themselves...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

There's nothing wrong with sorcerers becoming snipers--though the word I would use is 'assassin'.

 

Sniper, assassin, potayto, potahto. As for there being anything wrong with it, I wasn't making a value judgement about it, I was simply making an observation.

 

PC sorcerers in VA would also be perfectly suited for the support role' date=' given enough prep time. ("Wait--before you enter that lair, let me bestow upon you the Blessing of Mxw'lghwtn.")[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, the "Blessing of Mxw'lghwtn" (which won't be an Aid, Healing, Force Field, or Armor, to list a few "discouraged" Powers) will only last as many Phases as the sorcerer has Endurance, after which the sorcerer will be pretty much useless until she goes back and spends a few days at her opium den/cliff face/evil altar/what-have-you. Which means that unless the PCs encounter something scary within the first minute or so of entering the aforementioned lair, the "Blessing of Mxw'lghwtn" will have come and gone and left behind only the refreshing smell of Brut, and the sorcerer will be dead weight from that point forward.

 

That isn't a practical use of the power, in my opinion.

 

I have been trying to think of practical uses for sorcery other than assassination. Ordinarily, the limitations given for sorcery would suit a healer very well: not useful in combat, can't be done with any frequency, takes a long time for the healer to recover and repeat the trick, and so on. That would allow adventurers access to life-saving magic, restore lost limbs, permit the removal of magical curses, and so on. However, these uses of sorcery use Powers (Heal, Dispel Magic) which are specifically forbidden/discouraged under the Valdorian Age house rules. So that's out.

 

One thing worth considering is that Transform is specifically exempted from the "must cost full Endurance every Phase" rule. So there are probably noncombat uses for that which could serve a practical use, aside from turning people into toads: turning lead into gold, purifying water, blessing fields to be fertile, and so on. Not exactly the stuff of high adventure, but it's a practical use of the power. With some time to think, I'm sure I could think of useful ways to exploit Transform during an adventure.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

STOP DERAILING MY THREAD

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

STOP DERAILING MY THREAD

 

A. It's not "your" thread. The first person who posts in a thread doesn't own it (I've learned that the hard way).

B. Valdorian Age sorcerer characters, and their activities in the game, are on-topic.

C. Don't shout.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

A. It's not "your" thread. The first person who posts in a thread doesn't own it (I've learned that the hard way).

So because someone did it to you means its alright for you to do it to others?

 

B. Valdorian Age sorcerer characters' date=' and their activities in the game, are on-topic.[/quote']The topic of the thread is character write-ups. I don't see you posting characters. I see you whining about sorcerers in Valdorian Age and whining about the choice to make characters 75+75 with base 8 in chars.

 

C. Don't shout.

Maybe you need to learn this this hard way. I can use size 7 font ANY DAMN TIME I WANT TO!

 

Now, should I start another thread and begin again or will you shortly be over there taking a leak in the cornflakes too?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

I see you whining about sorcerers in Valdorian Age...

 

No one is whining about sorcerers. What on earth are you talking about?

 

Valdorian Age sorcerer characters' date=' and their activities in the game, are on-topic.[/quote']

 

For example, your "Divine Sorcerer of the Radiant Dawn" is a neat write-up. But other than drawing the protective circles, what do they actually do? Let's say a sea monster or a pirate ship shows up. What's the Divine Sorcerer's job during and after such a crisis? Some examples would be very helpful in seeing what role PC sorcerers might serve in the game.

[Old Man]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Unfortunately' date=' the "Blessing of Mxw'lghwtn" (which won't be an Aid, Healing, Force Field, or Armor, to list a few "discouraged" Powers)[/quote']

 

It won't? Only Healing is explicitly banned. Even the drastically undercosted Force Field and Armor are only discouraged for SFX reasons. Give Force Field the Invisible Power advantage and that problem is solved--5rPD/2rED at 3 END/turn. The GM still has to specifically ban that.

 

will only last as many Phases as the sorcerer has Endurance,

 

I must have missed the part where VA bans extended duration for adjustment powers. And adjustment powers are among the most inefficient support powers. As it is a VA sorcerer PC could give the entire party Invisibility and Flight for a couple of minutes, which is plenty. Or use Clairsentience in conjunction with Telekinesis, hit some poor sucker with a huge Mind Control... the list goes on.

 

Really, the End Reserve requirement is the only thing about this campaign that brings noncombat sorcery into line. Stock FH campaigns have a serious game balance problem there.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

I must have missed the part where VA bans extended duration for adjustment powers.

 

With the exceptions of powers which fade on their own (e.g., Aid, Flash, Transform, Drain) Powers cost full Endurance every Phase. That does mean that the sorcerer could potentially Aid her allies; however, the sorcery house rules strongly discourage that.

 

Aid and Transfer aren't banned outright, but they are supposed to have such severe limitations that you won't want to use them. For example, the suggested limitation for Aid is Side Effect, such as losing an equal amount of Dex when Aiding Strength. Force Field and Armor are banned, albeit with the same caveat that every game has: "you can do it anyway if you really want to" -- but I think that ignoring the Valdorian Age house rules kind of defeats the purpose of this thread, don't you? So if the Power is banned, we ought to treat it as banned.

 

Your other examples simply aren't practical: any Constant Power will wipe out the End Reserve in a minute or two, after which the sorcerer is out of commission for days or even weeks (depending on how soon the sorcerer gets back to her opium den, evil altar, or what have you). Even if that would be acceptable in the real world as the sorcerer gets called in as a "specialist" for a specific task, it wouldn't be much fun to play a one-hit wonder who then sits on the sidelines for the rest of the game.

 

So, keeping in mind the Valdorian Age house rules, what can a sorcerer do to contribute to a group of adventurers? Keeping in mind the laws against sorcery in Valdoria and Elweir, there would need to be some significant benefits for a group of PCs to willingly associate with a sorcerer.

 

I could see a sorcerer being very useful in an espionage game, such as one featuring the Duke's Men. Making the group Desolid for just a Phase or two would not require an unreasonable expenditure of Endurance. While Mind Control or any other mental power requiring long-lasting attention is out, a quick in-and-out hit with Telepathy could reveal the secret location of a treasure, the password to a back room, or the location of a kidnapped relative of one of The Fifty.

 

A sorcerer would have to be extremely subtle, and have very precise timing, to be useful to a group, but it could be done. It could even be worked into the Sword & Sorcery theme without too much trouble. Mainly I think it requires a shifting of gears about what role you expect magic to play in the game. You have to get creative, and find ways to make a large difference with Instant Powers (or very short term Constant Powers) that you have to plan ahead to use.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

You have to get creative' date=' and find ways to make a large difference with Instant Powers (or very short term Constant Powers) that you have to plan ahead to use.[/quote']

 

Here is an example of such a character. He's rough, in the sense that I haven't given a lot of thought as to the best method of mini-maxing to try and cope with the Valdorian Age house rules, but that would come naturally with more experience playing in such a setting.

 

He ought to have a lot more skills than he does, but as sorcerer PC he simply could not afford them -- they would have to be purchased with Experience Points. His Intelligence really ought to be a few points higher, too. Oh, well. Still, I think he could be a playable PC. As an NPC, with more points spent on skills, he could be even more interesting.

 

Morgan Blaylock

Player: Brandon Blackmoor

Val	Char	Cost
10	STR	0
13	DEX	9
9	CON	-2
10	BODY	0
13	INT	3
18	EGO	16
14	PRE	4
9	COM	0

4	PD	2
4	ED	2
3	SPD	7
4	REC	0
18	END	0
20	STUN	0

6"	RUN	0
2"	SWIM	0
2"	LEAP	0

Characteristics Cost: 41 (standard Hero base 10 stats)

Cost	Power
17	Necromancer: Summon 200-point Spirits of the dead, 
Expanded Class of Beings any spirit of the dead (+1/2) 
(60 Active Points); Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) (-1), 
Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), Incantations 
(Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Requires A 
Necromancy Skill Roll (-1/2)
17	Necromancy: Multipower, 60-point reserve,  (60 Active 
Points); all slots Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) (-1), 
Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), Incantations 
(Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Requires A 
Necromancy Skill Roll (-1/2)
2u	1)  Ghostly visage: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost) 
Desolidification  (affected by Sorcery) (40 Active Points); 
Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) (-1), Gestures, Requires 
Gestures throughout (-1/2), Incantations (Requires 
Incantations throughout; -1/2), Requires A Necromancy 
Skill Roll (-1/2) (Real Cost: 9) plus Flight 10" (20 Active 
Points); Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) (-1), Gestures, 
Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), Incantations (Requires 
Incantations throughout; -1/2), Requires A Necromancy 
Skill Roll (-1/2) (Real Cost: 4)
1u	2)  Hand of glory: Telekinesis (20 STR), Fine Manipulation 
(40 Active Points); Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) (-1), 
Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), Incantations 
(Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Requires A 
Necromancy Skill Roll (-1/2)
2u	3)  We know your secrets: Telepathy 12d6 (Human class 
of minds) (60 Active Points); Extra Time: 5 Minutes (special) 
(-1), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), 
Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), 
Requires A Necromancy Skill Roll (-1/2)
2u	4)  Whispers from the grave: Retrocognitive Clairsentience 
(Hearing And Sight Groups), Discriminatory, Increased Arc 
Of Perception (360 Degrees) (60 Active Points); Extra Time: 
5 Minutes (special) (-1), Gestures, Requires Gestures 
throughout (-1/2), Incantations (Requires Incantations 
throughout; -1/2), Requires A Necromancy Skill Roll (-1/2)
13	Endurance Reserve  (100 END, 20 REC) Reserve:  (30 Active 
Points); REC:  (20 Active Points); Limited Recovery (must 
meditate in a necropolis; -2), Slow Recovery 1 Hour (-2), 
Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant 
Power (0 DCV; -1)

Powers Cost: 54


Cost	Skill
3	Necromancy 13-
4	KS: Necromancy 13-

3	Bribery 12-
3	Conversation 12-
3	Deduction 12-
3	High Society 12-
3	Lockpicking 12-
3	Persuasion 12-
3	Shadowing 12-
2	WF:  Common Melee Weapons

Skills Cost: 30

Total Character Cost: 125

10	Distinctive Features:  Walks with a limp 
(Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable 
By Commonly-Used Senses)
10	Hunted:  Inspector Kelb of Sigmark 8- 
(As Pow, Harshly Punish)
0	Normal Characteristic Maxima
15	Physical Limitation:  Bad left leg: walks with a cane 
(All the Time, Slightly Impairing)
15	Psychological Limitation:  Sees life as a game 
(Common, Strong)
10	Psychological Limitation:  Sucker for a pretty face 
(Common, Moderate)
10	Reputation:  Sorcerer, 8- (Extreme)
5	Reputation:  Sticks his nose in other people's business, 8-

Disadvantage Points: 75
Base Points: 50 (standard Hero base 10 stats)

 

Hell is a city much like London --

A populous and a smoky city;

There are all sorts of people undone,

And there is little or no fun done;

Small justice shown, and still less pity.

-- Percy Bysshe Shelley

 

Appearance

 

Morgan is a tall, pale human of medium build and indeterminate age (could be late thirties, could be early fifties). His hair is a shaggy shoulder-length mane, either pale blonde or prematurely grey. A childhood battle with the pox has left his cheeks scarred, and his eyes are shiny black beetles beneath bushy white brows. Coils of sweet blue-grey smoke curl from a lit Abyzinian cigarette in brown paper, which crackles slightly when he inhales.

 

His voluminous overcoat may once have been black, but it is now weathered and charcoal grey. His shirt is white linen, neither excessively worn nor excessively fine, and his grey slacks are tucked into knee-high black leather boots, in the style of Elweir nobility. A simple gold ring adorns his left middle finger: his left ring-finger ends at the first knuckle.

 

Morgan walks with an ever-so-slight limp, favoring his right side. He leans on a cane, straight black wood with its simple brass knob gripped by his right hand.

 

Campaign Use

 

Morgan is tough and canny, but not a schemer for his own sake, and certainly not the type out to rule the world. He's been around, and has served as advisor and trouble-shooter for a handful of rich and/or powerful folks from Revanna to Xirbellia to Dalthyr. "Advisor to the Queen" is his favorite part of his resume. Which Queen? Queen of what? On that he is somewhat evasive. Being evasive is something he does well.

 

In addition to his keen mind, he also has some sorcerous ability, although he does not flaunt it. Still, it has enabled him to solve mysteries and retrieve lost objects when no one else was able to do so.

 

Background/History

 

He was born in Sigmark, in the heartland of Valdoria, and his mother (a woman reputed to have Dryndrish blood) died when he was very young. His father then took Morgan to the city Elweir beyond the frontiers of Valdoria. His father died in a raid by the Bandit Lords when Morgan was in his teens. It was only then, in an anonymously delivered letter from his deceased father, that Morgan learned that he and his parents were sorcerers, the last surviors of an ancient legacy. The only memento Morgan has of his father is a silver amulet, which he carries with him everywhere.

 

Of late, Morgan has been solving puzzles for the local constabulary, or for whatever unfortunate can convince him to take their case (either by piquing his interest or paying his bills). His card reads, in large script, "Morgan Blaylock, Esq." In smaller script, beneath, it reads "Discreet Inquiries".

 

Personality/Motivation

 

Morgan likes being involved in interesting events, but doesn't like being the center of attention. He likes to solve puzzles, but he's not much for plotting against other people for its own sake. He is willing to do unsavory things, but he has a definite moral code, and always does what he does for what *he* thinks are good reasons. He's murdered innocent people in cold blood, but it's not something he brags about. Ultimately, he wants good to win and evil to be punished. It's just that sometimes good needs some help from people who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty.

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

This is a perfect example of what a VA sorceror should be. He's no combat monster, but he can fly, go desolid, has telepathy, TK and retrocognition. As a spy and infiltrator, no rogue built on the same points can touch him.

 

And... don't forget, he can summon 200 point nasties from beyond the grave. Sure, it has a 5 minute buildup period, but once the summoning is done, the nasties are his for a certain period of time or number of services. Nothing puts a city guardsman off his interest in bribes like a black shadow flowing out of the target's sleeve and trying to suck his soul out through his nostrils...

 

Last of all, you are forgetting the way the system works. Let's say your necromancer has a 4d6 RKA described as the hungry ghost appearing and behaving as above. Useless in combat you say. It has severe penalties to the roll you say. Think about it.

 

GM: "The guardsmen are starting to get threatening."

Player. "I call on a hungry Ghost to suck the life out the lead guardsman!"

GM. "That's a -12 to your roll if you want to do it fast"

Player. "Huh. I roll an 11. I fail by 9. The ghost turns up anyway and I take 9 negative favour points. But that's OK, I'm still up 6 from drowning that old woman in the waterbarrel behind the inn last week."

Other players: "You did what?!"

 

In other words, the system is set up to allow the odd roll at severe penalties - you just can't afford to do it very often. It's also possible for the mage to set up triggered powers so that he can call on them at need. That's very much in genre.

 

Still, to play a sorceror in VA is similar to playing one in my game - as I said, you need to think of backup and support: NOT fire support. If the sorceror is having to rely on his magic in a fight, then he (or the party) screwed up. Combat mages are pretty rare in fantasy literature. It's pretty much a DandD thing.

 

cheers, Mark

 

cheers, Mark

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

He's no combat monster' date=' but he can fly, go desolid, has telepathy, TK and retrocognition. As a spy and infiltrator, no rogue built on the same points can touch him.[/quote']

 

True, he can do a few amazing things, but not very often or for very long (the high Endurance cost and slow, difficult Recovery is a real crippling factor, although at least cemetaries are relatively common compared to volcanoes, desolate cliffs, and tree frogs from other continents). If he weren't a sorcerer, he'd have spent those 60 odd points in skills, and could do them all day every day (if not quite as spectacularly). Still, if you need to know exactly what was a said in a certain room a week ago, there's nothing quite like sorcery to do it.

 

Last of all' date=' you are forgetting the way the system works.[/quote']

 

Meaning the Favor system; I'm not forgetting it at all. A PC sorcerer who relies upons the Favor system is going to go down, and the more they rely on it, the sooner they're going to do down. The Favor system is Russian Roulette, and author of Valdorian Age makes no bones about that: it's supposed to destroy the sorcerers who use it. Morgan has no intention of destroying himself: the only time he would risk incurring negative Favors is if he thinks he is about to die anyway, and his first priority after that would be to get rid of them.

 

I picture him casting a spell or actually Summoning up a spirit of the dead maybe once a game session, at most. That's often enough to be useful to a group, but not so often that he's ever walking around with an empty End Reserve or a pocket full of negative Favors.

 

Combat mages are pretty rare in fantasy literature.

 

A lot of things in gaming are rare in literature, and a lot of things in literature do not work well in gaming. They're different media: different rules apply.

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Meaning the Favor system; I'm not forgetting it at all. A PC sorcerer who relies upons the Favor system is going to go down' date=' and the more they rely on it, the sooner they're going to do down. The Favor system is Russian Roulette, and author of Valdorian Age makes no bones about that: it's [i']supposed[/i] to destroy the sorcerers who use it.

 

As I pointed out, if your Sorceror finds himself relying on his magic in combat, then he's screwed up - but it does make it possible to pull one out of the hat, when you really need it. Given the heavily-limited nature of slots in the multipower, it relatively little to add two slots, enabling - just for example - a lethal attack or a very good (if short term) defence. Now I'm not suggesting your character would want to take those - in both cases, they are last ditch measures because you'd surely end up with negative favour ifyou used them in combat. But you could just as easily add a variety of useful noncombat or precombat powers.

 

The trick, of course, is to think about what the character can do APART from combat. In a swords and sorcery setting, if you want to fight, play a fighter!

 

So I think the sorcerors are viable characters - they're just not going to suit every player (or every GM, for that matter).

 

cheers, Mark

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Player. "Huh. I roll an 11. I fail by 9. The ghost turns up anyway and I take 9 negative favour points. But that's OK, I'm still up 6 from drowning that old woman in the waterbarrel behind the inn last week."

Other players: "You did what?!"

 

By the way, I really, really like this.

[Old Man]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

With the exceptions of powers which fade on their own (e.g.' date=' Aid, Flash, Transform, Drain) Powers cost full Endurance every Phase. That does mean that the sorcerer could potentially Aid her allies; however, the sorcery house rules strongly discourage that.[/quote']

 

No they don't. I reiterate, there is nothing in the VA book that seriously discourages adjustment powers, and altering the fade rate on them is just fine. The only 'discouragement' is that you are suggested to take Side Effect, which IME most sorcerer players do anyway, in their neverending quest for limitations for their spells.

 

Side Effect is wholly subjective anyway--you don't have to take a 4d6 RKA for your SE. Flash is fine. So are Drains, which are totally nerfed in 5er. Noncumulative Transform is a good one for people who like to gamble.

 

 

Force Field and Armor are banned, albeit with the same caveat that every game has: "you can do it anyway if you really want to" -- but I think that ignoring the Valdorian Age house rules kind of defeats the purpose of this thread, don't you? So if the Power is banned, we ought to treat it as banned.

 

They're not banned, dude. The last sentence in the paragraph for FF and Armor is "You need to decide for yourself if you want to include these powers." The rest of the paragraph makes it clear that the author's only objection is SFX-related. Just because the author can't give FF and Armor an S&S flavor, doesn't mean you can't.

 

Your other examples simply aren't practical: any Constant Power will wipe out the End Reserve in a minute or two,

 

1) You exaggerate; 2) a minute can be a long time in FH. And again, in stock FH, noncombat spell use is easily broken. That's not a problem in VA.

 

So, keeping in mind the Valdorian Age house rules, what can a sorcerer do to contribute to a group of adventurers?... You have to get creative, and find ways to make a large difference with Instant Powers (or very short term Constant Powers) that you have to plan ahead to use.

 

This is really not all that different from regular FH, is it?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

That does mean that the sorcerer could potentially Aid her allies; however' date=' the sorcery house rules strongly discourage that.[/quote']No they don't.

 

Having ostensibly read the same book you did, I don't see how you can possibly say that. That goes for your comments on Armor and Force Field, too. But I see no point in arguing about it.

 

Your other examples simply aren't practical: any Constant Power will wipe out the End Reserve in a minute or two' date='[/quote']1) You exaggerate

 

1) Reduced END is forbidden.

2) The Recovery on Endurance reserves is delayed an hour for each Recover, plus the sorcerer can't recover at all without travelling to exotic locales or tracking down substances which are extremely rare and/or expensive.

3) Constant Powers cost END every Phase.

4) At 4 END per Phase (the minimum it will cost for most Powers to have a useful effect -- most of the example spells cost 6 END), a Speed 3 sorcerer (a reasonable PC speed) will exhaust a 120 END reserve (20% more than the Endurance Reserve given as an example) in exactly two minutes.

 

2) a minute can be a long time in FH.

 

Two minutes is a long time in combat, but Valdorian Age characters won't be casting their spells in combat (not unless something has gone horribly, horribly wrong). In role-playing time (e.g., sneaking into a castle, searching someone's house, chatting up barflies at the local pubs for clues to the recent spate of bizarre ritual killings), two minutes is nothing, and once the END is gone, it's gone for a long, long time.

 

Any spell which requires continuous END use is going to have a very limited set of circumstances where it will be useful. Essentially, such spells are useful only when the sorcerer can plan ahead for their use, and won't need to use them for very long. This is obviously intentional.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

I went back and added the Hero Designer file for Morgan Blaylock. Even if you don't want to use him in a game, he makes a good starting point for a Valdorian Age sorcerer character: just change a few details.

[Old Man]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Having ostensibly read the same book you did' date=' I don't see how you can possibly say that. That goes for your comments on Armor and Force Field, too. But I see no point in arguing about it.[/quote']

 

Give up if you want. I have the book here in front of me and all it says is "decide whether you want Force Field or not". That has to be the weakest "ban" I've ever heard.

 

 

1) Reduced END is forbidden.

2) The Recovery on Endurance reserves is delayed an hour for each Recover, plus the sorcerer can't recover at all without travelling to exotic locales or tracking down substances which are extremely rare and/or expensive.

3) Constant Powers cost END every Phase.

4) At 4 END per Phase (the minimum it will cost for most Powers to have a useful effect -- most of the example spells cost 6 END), a Speed 3 sorcerer (a reasonable PC speed) will exhaust a 120 END reserve (20% more than the Endurance Reserve given as an example) in exactly two minutes.

 

You are right on the money until point 4. There are plenty of useful things you can do for 1 or 2 END per phase. Flight Usable By Others, for example. And going off the example spells in the book to determine average END cost is silly, since they're all built at 60 AP just for the sake of consistency. 60 AP is 40 STR telekinesis or 40" of noncombat flight usable by others--it's way overkill. There's plenty of useful things you can do for 20 AP.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

There's plenty of useful things you can do for 20 AP.

 

Okay, four minutes then.

 

All kidding aside, I would be very interested for you to put the kind of sorcerer you envision on paper. I would like to see what kind of Valdorian Age PC you'd create to illustrate the points you are making re: Endurance cost.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

A friend of a friend just moved into the area. Alice has been talking with them and they not only have no friends in the area right now but they like to game. They are used to D&D and have no problem learning the system. Alice, for some reason, tried to sell them on Valdorian Age campaign. (God I love her!)

 

This person we have yet to meet will play but only if she can be evil. She is going to make a great sorcerer.

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

Any spell which requires continuous END use is going to have a very limited set of circumstances where it will be useful. Essentially' date=' such spells are useful only when the sorcerer can plan ahead for their use, and won't need to use them for very long. This is obviously intentional.[/quote']

 

I agree with your points, but under these conditions a sorceror type is still workable - I limited magic in exactly this way in my game: ALL magic use costs END - even if it's only "END to start" and all END consumed in csting is Long Term End - which means it takes hours to recover from the "aching, empty weariness caused by sorcery." You get maybe 3 or 4 good shots in combat - if you really have to. It's mostly a waste of time though, entangling (for example) an alleyway full of foes might be worth it.

 

And yes, that was entirely intentional. Like the author of VA i *did*not*want* sorcerors to be useful in combat. At all. I'm actually alittle less harsh than he was, but the basic point is the same.

 

But if you take mages out of combat, they can still be effective. Here's an example from my own game - a mage using a large area effect Mindcontrol - only a few dice - to incite a mob to attack the local temple. By itself, the mind control would not have been enough, nor lasted long enough. For a few phases as the climax of a stirring speach inciting people to arms however, it's quite a different question.

 

And when the party stormed in among the mob, the mage made himself useful by sorcerously detecting the location of their target - not continuously, but on and off - and hiding the party (briefly) from parties of guards. When it came to the fight, he stood back and watched. That's what sorcerors do.

 

Likewise, persuading all the guards in the castle to surrender is not likely - but persuading one that he heard something suspicious outside and should open the sally port to have a look is eminently do-able.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Steve]

Re: Valdorian Characters

 

I posted this back when Valdorian Age was first released, but I offer it again to anyone who is interested as well as the link to the HD files I have posted. Just scroll to the posting from me for the HD files. Page one has my export posting.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29472&page=2

 

It's my take on a Red Sonja sort of character, both a starting version and a more experienced one.

 

The original posting doesn't show right to me anymore, and I'm not sure why. Did the boards change how HD exports show, or is my web browser messed up?