Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

[prestidigitator]

One of my players in a fantasy game has a monk type character. He wants to eventually learn to run on water. Whatever Power I wind up using for this, I will probably give it a stall speed so he has to keep moving or sink. In any case, what do you think should be used for this? It won't be a run-up-waterfalls type power, but more of a stay-on-surface-as-if-ground type power. The problem is that there seems to be too many ways to do this one, each of them very justifiable. Here are the ones I have thought of:

• Running; Usable As Swimming
  
• Gliding; Water Gliding (essentially the same as Ground Gliding)
  
• Flight; Only On Water Surface
  
• Swimming; Only On Surface (or maybe Usable As Flight/Gliding/Running)

Arg! This is such a difficult one for me!!!! I'm not sure why I can't seem to wrap my mind around it. What do you think?

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

I like the running option. That keeps the amount of movement the same.

[Rapier]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

I usually go with the Flight, Only on Water and maxx the flight " to the same as the running.

 

I've also seen a naked +1 Usable on Water purchased for the running.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

What is the Monks base inches of running at right now? Let's assume it's 6 for these examples...

 

By default, Flight has a turn mode and causes you to take additional knock back. This will cost him 10 pts to get 6" of limited flight, 12 if he want's to ditch the turnmode. Expensive and he still takes extra knockback while using it. Not the prefered method UNLESS he also wants the ability to run up walls and across tightropes, I which case this may be the very best option.

 

Gliding has most of the same problems as Flight, but comes in a bit less expensive (Real Cost of 5 for 6" of ground gliding). Hover, by default "Ground Gliding" doesn;t work on water, so you would have to come up witha new rule on how exactly the lim applies. It also doesn't cost end by default, which may not make sense since the characters normal inches of running probably does cost end and running on water probably shouldn't be easier to do. Course, you could add Costs END as a lim and reduce the real cost to 3.

 

An extra 4" of Surface only Swiming is a cheap purchase coming in at a real cost of 2. It doesn't have to deal with a turn mode, so that's pretty good. However...

 

Running Useable as Swimming is a good purchase, accuratly reflects what the monk want's to do and is nice and cheap. I would probably do it as a Naked Advantage if you wish to limit it to surface only. If he can use his 6" of Running as normal swimming, this costs him 3 pts. But, if he takes the Surface Only lim it only costs him 1 pt.

[Zed-F]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

I like Running usable as swimming, surface only.

[Bartman]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

I like Running usable as swimming' date=' surface only.[/quote']

Dito. I prefer Swimming for three reasons:

 

1- It is the logical power. Movement on/through water is swimming. That's what the power exists for. Trying to mimic a water movement power with flight, is like trying to mimic flight with teleportaion with the position shift and no relative velocity modfiers. You can do it but there is a less klugey way to do it.

 

2- It's cheaper. Once you've already bought running, you shouldn't have to buy flight as well. Basically running on water amounts to a power trick for most characters. It is likely to be a little used ability which adds flavor to a character. No reason to make them over pay for it.

 

3- It represents running better because it has no turn mode, like running.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

For the "runs on water" trick, like the Jesus lizard does, I typically use Swimming, Surface Only.

 

I don't like putting Usable As Swimming on Running because the Advantage seems a to imply all aspects of swimming, which is not what this ability should do. Also, in the case of every real world creature that can run on water, the speed is different on water than it is on land.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Flight 6", Reduced Endurance Cost (-1/2) (18 Active Points), Only to Simulate Running on Water (-1 1/2). Total Cost: 7 points.

[Vorsch]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

new power based off clinging

 

10 waterwalking,

 

so you still have your normal running speed and dont have to mess around with advantages.

 

extra 10 for walk on air

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

The Reduced Endurance was only to make the power match normally Running Endurance. It works out to 1.3 per point. I don't see why you need to create an entire new power just to let someone walk on water.

[Vorsch]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Why should you have clinging if flight usable only on surfaces is okay?

 

works both ways you know

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

There are two problems with clinging though. First clinging is to walls and "sheer" surfaces. Second, clinging offers extra resistance to Knockback which is not a normal property of Running.

[DangerousDan]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

There are two problems with clinging though. First clinging is to walls and "sheer" surfaces. Second' date=' clinging offers extra resistance to Knockback which is not a normal property of Running.[/quote']

 

Also, the whole concept of clinging is opposite to the "stall speed" that the original poster wanted.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

I think I like Usable as Swimming the best, since that's what the rule is for, but I think that the Surface Only limitation should be applied to the +1/4 points of Usable As, since it otherwise ends up being a limitation on running, which is silly.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Hey, thanks for the feedback all! I think given all this input and the thought of the character basically acting like a boat anyway I will actually use something like

Swimming;

Only On Surface;

Stall Speed;

Has Turn Mode

Mostly because Swimming is often used for surface movement as well as general movement in water, so it goes well with the general intent of the Power. I'll probably just limit the number of hexes to the character's hexes in Running because of concept and SFX. I want the Turn Mode for concept: the water, while supporting the character's weight as long as he moves quickly, will not supply much traction (I'll probably wrap acceleration/deceleration effects into the same Limitation; its similar and probably isn't worth another whole Limitation anyway).

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

In the HERO system I am about to create heresy.

 

Real World Physics imply that you only have to obtain about 100 mph to 'walk on water' At that speed the water simply does not have time to get out of the way. This is why falls onto water from height severely injure people.

 

But you could always make the PC 'pay' for the ability in which case why not just use Gliding? As soon as he stops he sinks.

 

Hawksmoor

[Dust Raven]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Real World Physics imply that you only have to obtain about 100 mph to 'walk on water' At that speed the water simply does not have time to get out of the way. This is why falls onto water from height severely injure people.

 

Of course, there could be other factors. The surface area of one's foot, if large enough and of the proper shape would allow walking on water at much slower speeds.

 

And naturally, such people jumping feet first into water from a great hight would take LOTS of damage.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

In the HERO system I am about to create heresy.

 

Real World Physics imply that....

Yeah. Real world has nothing to do with it.

 

But you could always make the PC 'pay' for the ability in which case why not just use Gliding? As soon as he stops he sinks.

I was thinking about that, but I decided to go with Swimming because Swimming is specifically designed for moving on (or in) water and that is what the character is doing. Gliding is another possibility, but I think Ground Gliding was introduced to really keep the character from having to physically interact with the ground, and in this case I don't really care whether the character interacts with the water; I may even assign the typical -2 penalty for acting in water without Environmental Movement, though the justification will be a little different from that of impeded movement due to immersion.

 

If I were to introduce the equivalent of Ground Gliding to this situation I would probably call it Water Gliding and restrict its velocity to the character's Swimming rather than Running. So in order to truly skim the surface of the water without leaving wakes, making a bunch of noice underwater, etc., I would probably require both powers (some appropriate Swimming plus Water Gliding).

 

What sold me on this is really thinking about the character as a boat. I think I would likely deal with water-skis in a similar manner, except then the character has to actually be towed by something (a Limitation I would probably use to replace Stall Speed).

 

P.S. - I guess I am thinking a little more coherently about this issue now, and all the great posts certainly helped!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Of course, there could be other factors. The surface area of one's foot, if large enough and of the proper shape would allow walking on water at much slower speeds.

 

And naturally, such people jumping feet first into water from a great hight would take LOTS of damage.

Indeed. Besides, just because you skim over the surface of the water for a ways does not mean you aren't being slowed, or that you have enough traction to supply the force necessary to maintain your velocity for any significant period or distance.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Walking/Running on Water: Flight, Gliding, Swimming, Running Usable As...?

 

Indeed. Besides' date=' just because you skim over the surface of the water for a ways does not mean you aren't being slowed, or that you have enough traction to supply the force necessary to maintain your velocity for any significant period or distance.[/quote']

 

In real world physics, that's how it works for the lizard. It's water running speed is a little less than its land speed, and at full tilt is only able to stay above the surface of the water for a few meters before it just sinks.