Religion Hero??

[zornwil]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Dauntless, just so you're aware, VDM is a very serious student of the Jewish faith and has demonstrated time and again his knowledge in this area is quite deep. Just so you know. (Please don't take this as me trying to make any point - literally, I just want you to be aware so you consider that in your posts)

[Dauntless]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I don't claim to be an expert in any religious system....but I think it's fair to say that I know more than the average joe. In fact, I try NOT to specialize in any one religion as I like studying various religious systems. So while my depth in any one particular religion is not spectacular, I do think my breadth of knowledge is fairly good. And I'll admit, Judaism is one of my weaker subjects (I know a little more about Islam actually thanks to my mom).

 

Trust me, I am quite aware that especially in a subject like religion, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". I'm definitely not arrogant enough to not concede to someone who's spent a good portion of their life studying and practicing a religion, or someone who's been to some kind of theological/divinity school. But if there's one thing I've discovered, it's that I have come to appreciate an old Chinese saying: "if you know only one religion, you know none". I do know enough to know the vast amount of differences in interpretation between groups even of the same religion. If anything, that's what makes it all the more fascinating. And when you consider that the word religion itself is from the latin root "religiere" which means to "bind together", then you can appreciate the common root despite the differences even more.

 

I wish I had more time to read the Talmudic laws, the many various schools of Kabbalah, the hadiths and fatwas of the 4 major schools of Fiqh, and learn Greek, Hebrew, Latin and Arabic. Alas, I can not not. Heck, I wish I could learn Pali, Sanskrit, and Chinese and read some of the original Hinayana and Mahayana sutras. If a philsophy major could make money, I would have done that instead of computer science. But it's nonetheless a passionate hobby of mine to study religions. While I may not know any one particular religion greatly, I think I do have a fair grasp of a "big picture" role of religion and how it has affected society.

[gojira]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

So, kinda aside from the main discussion of the last couple of pages, do any one of you Biblical scholars know what time period the book of Judges is from?

 

I remember thinking (long ago, in 8th grade parochial school) that some of the stories from that book of the Bible were actually kinda of interesting from a fantasy/RPG viewpoint.

 

I'm sure I could find out, I'm just being lazy....

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

So, kinda aside from the main discussion of the last couple of pages, do any one of you Biblical scholars know what time period the book of Judges is from?

 

I remember thinking (long ago, in 8th grade parochial school) that some of the stories from that book of the Bible were actually kinda of interesting from a fantasy/RPG viewpoint.

 

I'm sure I could find out, I'm just being lazy....

 

 

 

The answer is, we don't know very well.

 

Non-Biblical written histories that refer to Israel from that time period, which would be our best way to date the Bible, are scarce. The earliest reference to Israel is an Egyptian pillar from the reign of Merenptah (c. 1210 BC), which reads "Israel is devastated, barren of seed". From fifty years earlier, we receive reports of a warlord named Labaya in Canaan; some believe the name to be a compression of "Lion of Yahweh" and have linked him to Abimelech (or more radically, Saul), but that's solely speculation. There are numerous references in Egypt and Assyria to the Habiru ("wanderer" or "vagrant" in Akkadian, which was the lingua franca of the day) that date back to 1500 BC and which may refer to the Hebrews, but that's also disputed ("Habiru" may have been a derogatory name given to any hostile wandering tribe, which finally stuck to the Israelites).

 

I prefer the Judges era as a game environment for Testament, given its wide open nature. In general, it's probably best to place it between 1200 BC and 1050 BC, after the invasion of the Sea Peoples (known in Canaan as Phillistines) overthrew the Amorite coastal strongholds and brought about a dark age (during which no records were kept in the region).

 

Whether the time of the Sea Peoples is the actual time of the Judges period is a subject for scholarly debate that's probably beyond resolution. Beyond this, pottery's been found referring to Beth David (House of David) that's been dated to about 900 BC, but many dispute the find. The earliest unequivocal record of a Biblical figure is to Omri, father of Ahab ("Bit-Humria", House of Omri is synonomous with Israel in Assyrian sources). The date of this probably 880 BC., with a margin of error of about 5-10 years on either side.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Again' date=' as believer in a particular religion, I feel that my beliefs are challenged and even derided enough in daily life - including, I must say, by people within my chosen hobby - that I feel no need to seek out marginal opportunities to buy stuff that will chap my hide even if it's quality material. [/quote']

 

 

This is of course, the problem with all religions when dealing with people not of their religion. Other religions must be either tolerated, accepted or dismissed (hopefully not in a condescending manner). The only alternative, is of course isolation. Which some religions also practice. How you deal with people of alternate religions is a personal matter, but it should be no different to how you treat items of different religions.

 

Tolerating the minor offenses of those not of your religion, because they are not familiar with your religion, or have their own beliefs that are contrary should be par for the course.

 

Should be.

[The Monster]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

This is of course, the problem with all religions when dealing with people not of their religion. Other religions must be either tolerated, accepted or dismissed (hopefully not in a condescending manner). The only alternative, is of course isolation. Which some religions also practice. How you deal with people of alternate religions is a personal matter, but it should be no different to how you treat items of different religions.

 

Tolerating the minor offenses of those not of your religion, because they are not familiar with your religion, or have their own beliefs that are contrary should be par for the course.

 

Should be.

 

Should be. I wholeheartedly agree.

It should also be "par" to avoid stereotyping religious believers (or nonbelievers, for that matter.) What's good for the goose, as they say...

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Should be. I wholeheartedly agree.

It should also be "par" to avoid stereotyping religious believers (or nonbelievers, for that matter.) What's good for the goose, as they say...

 

True. But that is a matter of education. In general, I've found - one of the prime educational features of any given religion is to never teach their members about any other religion. It is no suprise that people not of your religion stereotype - they only know of their own religion.

 

The chances of a religion imparting enough knowledge about EVERY OTHER religion in the world - such that enough knowledge is imparted to not only "not offend" but also "not stereotype" is in the order of magnitude of naught to impossible. And is, in my books, wishful thinking.

[Lucius]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

True. But that is a matter of education. In general, I've found - one of the prime educational features of any given religion is to never teach their members about any other religion. It is no suprise that people not of your religion stereotype - they only know of their own religion.

 

The chances of a religion imparting enough knowledge about EVERY OTHER religion in the world - such that enough knowledge is imparted to not only "not offend" but also "not stereotype" is in the order of magnitude of naught to impossible. And is, in my books, wishful thinking.

 

Unitarian Universalist Sunday School Curriculum "Church Across the Street" is, at least, an attempt to fulfill that wish.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to build a temple to Janus

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Unitarian is the exception proving the rule

It is, unfortunately, one of the more minor denominations.

[Lucius]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Actually, I find that too many people don't know anything about their OWN religion. Unfortunately, that sometimes goes for Unitarians, too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to found a religion. After all, if it worked for Hubbard....

[DavidV]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Actually, I find that too many people don't know anything about their OWN religion. Unfortunately, that sometimes goes for Unitarians, too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to found a religion. After all, if it worked for Hubbard....

 

Amen to that. I'm a Unitarian from Canada and see it in my church (and in myself, since I was raised Christian and became a UU later in life, I'm still not always the most knowledgeable and orthodox of Unitarians).

 

As for the whole topic of "Religion Hero", the only solution that would adequately deal with the whole problem of using real world religions in an RPG supplement would be to have each section written by a knowledgeable practitioner of that religion.

 

Since that's probably not practical (and there may be non-gaming books that cover off the type of information that would be included just as well), perhaps something written a higher level (i.e. not addressing specific faiths) that covers themes in the culture of religion (rituals, lifestyle issues, etc.) would allow GMs to more knowledgeably model the role of religion in their campaigns while leaving GMs and players to work out which, if any, real world religions to include and to do the necessary homework to make sure they do it right.

 

Personally, I agonize over creating religions for my fantasy worlds, since I (a) want to make them "fell" like a religion, not some abstract creation and ( want to ensure that if I am modeling them on a real world relgion, they actually live up what is good and positive about that religion. The simple D&D approach of throwing together a bunch of gods and goddesses and calling that a religion doesn't cut it for me.

 

The bottom line is that any handling of a given faith in an RPG, esp. a published one, needs to be respectful and (as much as possible) free of serious errors or prejudices. If you can't achieve that, better to deal with religion on a broader level and leave specific faiths to those who follow thm.

 

David

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I tend to use real world religions for my fantasy campaign because a) all the work has been done for me and they are far more interesting/weird/believable than any fantasy religion I could come up with.