Evil Toki Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 This is a sweet Thread My own comments, I have to agree on them powering down Superman, he gets his butt handed to him alot, but he also deals out alot of pain, I guess it all depends on the needs of the story. My own thoughts are about Hawkgirl, she really is a flat character to me, they have yet to do anything that I have seen to give her more dimension, outside of a few stories, it seems like each of the characters gets a story that focuses on one of them outside of her, have I missed one that sheds more light on Hawkgirl... and is it me or is there some tensions between her and GL? Batman I agree, he runs that show, but pushes himself hard to keep up. Martian Manhunter, is just well all over the place, sometimes he is tough, and sometimes not, i guess him and Superman suffer from the same maladity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Toki Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Pattern Ghost hope you don't mind but I cross-posted your first post on the Mutants & Masterminds boards, since this got such a good reply here... and since I play that game mainly HERO seems pretty cool too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSword Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike BM -- the creators of ths show have always had a stiffy for Batman, and it shows thru in this series too (and thats good from my perspective, bcs I like Batman way more than all the rest of the DC universe combined ). Aside from being the obvious brain on the team, he's also more or less the defacto leader. Though Bats is rarely calling the shots openly, his Intel and Analysis drives the direction the team takes constantly. Notice how they all look to Bats as soon as anything complicated happens. The creators wanted to spin it that BM joined the JLA as a side thing; he's still assumed to have other Bat-stuff going on. Of all the JLA he's the most capable of taking care of things on his own. The creative team also wanted to play up the idea that while Bats can keep up with the powered individuals when they cut loose, its with effort, and he's usually lagging behind. Where he makes it up is while all the heavyhitters are just reacting, Bats is proacting. He figures out where it is all going, and skips to the end. I believe this is also the case in the comic book series. If I remember right in the first or second story arc of the current JLA, all of the metahumans were captured and the enemies gloated over taking down Earth's greatest heroes when someone asked where Batman was. The enemies said, "He's only human." Cue butt kicking by human. I think its mainly done to show that even though there are people with exceptional strength, flight, etc, a 'normal' man with discipline and hard work can keep up with anyone else. In this way JLA isn't dehumanized by threats that are so big that humans don't stand a chance and need superhumans, but instead the superhumans rely on a normal human to save the day. In Gorilla City, wonder woman's strength can't break the handcuffs, but Batman can pick the locks, a perfectly mundane solution to a problem, and the one that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Evil Toki Pattern Ghost hope you don't mind but I cross-posted your first post on the Mutants & Masterminds boards, since this got such a good reply here... and since I play that game mainly HERO seems pretty cool too I don't mind at all. Should be a good topic there, too. Since most of the thread is non-system specific (at least at this point), it might be a good idea to link back to here too. (If you haven't already, I haven't looked on the MnM boards yet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscaDomestica Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Well ::Bump:: After last nights episode we can see that Supes does have an enraged disad with just seeing Darkseid. He hit Bats hard when he tried to stop him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 After last night's new JL special, it's become obvious that MM is a real brick. He had no trouble at all punching through the Brainiac drones repeatedly. I'd rate HG as about a 30 STR, she would be very strong for a human but I see no sign of actual brickness. She has excellent martial arts, enough to let her handle herself pretty well. Give her her big ol' honkin' mace and she kicks posterior. That thing decked Darkseid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by MuscaDomestica Well ::Bump:: After last nights episode we can see that Supes does have an enraged disad with just seeing Darkseid. He hit Bats hard when he tried to stop him. That would dovetail nicely with the Superman TAS shows they've done, since Darkseid killed Inspector Dan Turpin in cold blood and sneered at Superman afterwards. Darkseid and TAS Supes have a rather nasty history and Darkseid has jerked Superman's chain way too often for Superman not to be furious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Okay everyone the name of the thread is BUILDING The animated Justice League so lets get to building Animated Superman Player: Val Char Cost 25/75 STR 15 23 DEX 39 25 CON 30 15 BODY 10 14 INT 4 14 EGO 8 15 PRE 5 16 COM 3 20/30 PD 5 20 ED 5 5 SPD 17 10/20 REC 0 50 END 0 50/75 STUN 9 6" RUN02" SWIM05"/15" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 150 Cost Power END Kryptonian Powers, all slots: Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4) 24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) 3 40 2) Superstrength: +50 STR (50 Active Points) 5 21 3) Invulnerability: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Not Vs Magic (-1/2) 15 4) Heat Vision: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. ED) (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 2x END (-1/2), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4) 6 6 5) Super Vision: Enhanced Perception (+4 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (8 Active Points) 5 6) Super Vision: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Sight Group) (6 Active Points) 3 7) Super Hearing: Enhanced Perception (+2 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (4 Active Points) 3 8) Super Hearing: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Normal Hearing) (4 Active Points) 12 9) Super vision: Microscopic x1000 (Sight Group) (15 Active Points) 2 10) Super Hearing: Ultrasonic Perception (3 Active Points) 3 11) Megascaled Sight: Megascale on normal sight (1"=1 KM); , Only when Var Advantage is used for Megascale (+0) (6 Active Points); Linked to Flight (-1/2) 8 12) X Ray Vision: N-Ray Perception (10 Active Points) 8 13) Life Support , Extended Breathing, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (10 Active Points) Powers Cost: 150 Cost Skill 3 Deduction 12- 1 Streetwise 8- 3 PS: Reporter (INT-based) 12- 2 CK: Metropolis 11- 3 Bureaucratics 12- 3 Conversation 12- Skills Cost: 15 Cost Perk 6 Fringe Benefit: Membership of the JL, Press Pass 4 Reputation (A large group; 11-) +2/+2d6 10 Base (50 Base, 50 Disad) 3 Well-Connected 1 1) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources) (2 Active Points) 8- 3 2) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (4 Active Points) 11- 4 3) Contact (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11- 4 4) Contact (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11- Perks Cost: 35 Total Character Cost: 350 Val Disadvantages 15 Dependent NPC: Lois Lane 11- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) 15 Dependent NPC: Jimmy Olsen 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) 15 Hunted: Lex Luther 11- (Less Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) 20 Hunted: Darkseid 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) 10 Hunted: Superman Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) 25 Susceptibility: Pressence of Kryptonite (4") 3d6 damage, per Phase (Uncommon) 20 Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total 15 Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major 15 Psychological Limitation: Protectve of Innocence (Common; Strong) Disadvantage Points: 150 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 0 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I just kind of skimmed the threads, but ... I don't recall anybody mentioning J'onn J'onzz's telepathy in any detail. Stuff I recall him doing ... 1. Psychic Shields (secret origins: hid Batman) 2. Telepathy (Blackest Night: Got GL's location from a guard) 3. Mind Blast (Blackest Night: KOed the guard after reading his mind) 4. Mind Scan (Blackest Night: Made contact with GL across interstellar distances). 5. Clairsentience as seeing-through-eyes (Blackest Night: Saw the stars GL was gazing on while imprisoned) Okay, so Blackest Night was the only episode to REALLY showcase his psychic powers. But still, he's done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastion Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Great topic guys! A lot of good stuff in here so far. Not really anything to do with specific powers but I just had to say that the Gorilla City episode had the best example of non-combat speed I have ever seen. When Flash is chasing down the van he catches up to it very quickly a couple of times but has difficulty overtaking them when he drops out of non-combat speed and brings his DCV up to full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Oh yeah ... two more cents. Green Lantern should have a RKA with the ring, too. In 'In Blackest Night', he creates an energy blade. It's hard to see, but in the final climactic battle, he creates an effect that scythes across some of the Manhunter robots and cuts them in half. If you're detail oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 MM has also done the shape change into the bad guy routine a few times, I would (assuming Supes at Str 75) put MM at 30, with a Desolid/Density Increase/Shape Change MP sitting at 50 points (40 point powers w/ Red end 1/2) He also shapeshifts into a fire breathing dragon in the intro and in at least one episode (metamorphosis 2?) MM seems to be able to do just about anything... but he doesn't. He definetly seems to be "restrained" for some reason because pound for pound he seems to be able to one-up superman on just about everything. He also seems to have research skills like Batman as he was working on a cure in "Fury." Aside from being the obvious brain on the team, he's also more or less the defacto leader. Though Bats is rarely calling the shots openly, his Intel and Analysis drives the direction the team takes constantly. Notice how they all look to Bats as soon as anything complicated happens. I don't think Batman ever even joined them. He told Superman to call him if they need help but he wasn't going to actually be on the team. He IS often MIA too, either back at the base researching a cure (metamorphosis), sick (fury), doing his own thing (injustice for all) or just not present in the episode. There was a line where I think Superman said he couldn't even contact Batman and it sounded like that wasn't unusual. I do get a kick out of some of the things Batman does, like bribing Humanite, that no one else on the team could or would do. The Lasso: What's up with the Lasso? Seems to have lost its umph. Has anyone seen the truth power yet? Or the "you can't remove it" power? Pretty sure she has stated it's unbreakable. There has also been at least one case of the lasso being irretrievably lost but she uses it again in the next scene, so she can't lose it. Seems like it's just being used for it's range, entangle and as a non-killing way of dealing with normals. 24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) That seems... slow. I get the impression all the flyers can at least keep up with jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Also keep in mind a few things with Superman. The follow-up to his series two-parter with Darkseid, where Turpin was killed, was Legacy, where Supes was brainwashed into conquering Earth for Darkseid. It's this incident that Batman is referring to in the recent JL episodes "Twilight". It's also this episode that has Superman burned out and demoralized in season one, accounting for his somewhat lackluster performance. Thanks to Darkseid, many of the people of Earth, including former friend Emil Hamilton, no longer trust the Man of Steel, and it's been shown to Superman in no uncertain terms that the military is ready to consider him public enemy number one at a moment's notice (at least some elements). However, in season two, thanks to Twilight, the old Superman is supposed to make some of a comeback, getting back up to snuff and unleashing. So that could be interesting. Also, Superman is seen to be nearly, if not as, fast as the Flash. The two ran a race in Superman TAS, and the two were neck and neck for much of it. Personally, I'd let Flash have the edge here, and also chalk up Superman's lack of superspeed action to being a team player and not letting anyone feel like they can't contribute. Let's face it, Flash in JL is a major loser and one-trick pony. If anyone needs to be mended, it's this guy. My thoughts, anyway. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 It's also this episode that has Superman burned out and demoralized in season one, accounting for his somewhat lackluster performance. Thanks to Darkseid, many of the people of Earth, including former friend Emil Hamilton, no longer trust the Man of Steel, and it's been shown to Superman in no uncertain terms that the military is ready to consider him public enemy number one at a moment's notice (at least some elements). That doesn't jibe at all with "Origins" where the world gratefully puts itself into a rather energetic Superman's sole hands. Superman did NOT come into the series "burned out" and the world governments trusted him completely. The only thing that has changed is Superman no longer believes he is capable of protecting the world by himself (which was demonstrated in Origins) which is why he invited the others to stay and join the JLA. “I believe that if we stay together as a team, we would be a force that could truly work for the ideals of peace and justice.†“What like a bunch of super friends?†“More like a Justice League.†“Do you have any idea how corny that sounds?†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I understand what is said in Origins, but I am also aware of interviews and talks given by the creative team behind the recent Darkseid episode, and some of their direction choices. To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess. ::shrugs:: Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess. There were some grateingly bad problems with the episode. The hairpin turn in Superman's popularity was one of them. The doctor refusing to save Supergirl's life was another, even if she had been guilty of anything which in fact was the reverse, she had fought against the invasion, it was dumb he'd let her die. Superman leaving Darkseid alive puts him firmly in the short bus, WTF was he even doing invading Apokolipse in the first place if all he does is listen to Darkseid threaten to slaughter more humans then leave? *boggle* I feel like Earth is a Quicky Mart and Superman is Apu saying "glad we could satisfy your invading and slaughtering needs. Thank you, come again!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by J4y 24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) That seems... slow. I get the impression all the flyers can at least keep up with jets. Not really, As imagined it will be used for various stages of Megascale (1=10m, 1=100m, 1=1km), usable underwater, and 1/2 end, this will give the boy a top speed of (math check 10km * speed 5 *5 turns a minute * 60 minutes an hour =15000Km an hour) or roughly mach 12.5...seems fast enough for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Not really, As imagined it will be used for various stages of Megascale (1=10m, 1=100m, 1=1km), usable underwater, and 1/2 end, this will give the boy a top speed of (math check 10km * speed 5 *5 turns a minute * 60 minutes an hour =15000Km an hour) or roughly mach 12.5...seems fast enough for me... Oops, misread that yeah, he can get 1km megascale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Not a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by J4y To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess. There were some grateingly bad problems with the episode. The hairpin turn in Superman's popularity was one of them. The doctor refusing to save Supergirl's life was another, even if she had been guilty of anything which in fact was the reverse, she had fought against the invasion, it was dumb he'd let her die. Superman leaving Darkseid alive puts him firmly in the short bus, WTF was he even doing invading Apokolipse in the first place if all he does is listen to Darkseid threaten to slaughter more humans then leave? *boggle* I feel like Earth is a Quicky Mart and Superman is Apu saying "glad we could satisfy your invading and slaughtering needs. Thank you, come again!" I think this shows how strong his CVK is, he may despise Darkseid and all that but when it is beaten to a pulp the closest he can do is throwing Darkseid to he masses, which he assumes that they would overthrow him, and he just couldn't imagine them helping Darkseid, it was totally unthinkable to superman. also he beat up darkseid as a way of saying "stay the F--- away from earth or I'll do this to you again" again he can't go out and say it but that is what i think he meant. also while he lost a lot of devoted people, alot of people spoke up for him, that seacaptain (can never remember his name) still trusts supes, and there have got to be more, so while the attitude of the people in the pilot, while a little exteme, isn't totally unrealistic, this could be a while after that last episode of supes, and he could have regained at least some of the trust he lost. as for the popularity turn in Legacy, well, what would you do, if knowing your Idol, the American Icon in fact, tried VERY HARD to take over the world, he showed no emotion about those he killed, they were ants to him and he acted like it, then he threatens Emil Hamilton and all in all, I honestly can't say, living in the "real" world not a veiwer of everything and never having actually been saved or come in contact with Supes, save for what i saw on TV and in the Paper, that I would completely trust Supes either. and that is even without taking into acount those that lost loved ones to his hands. and Supergirl, being related to supes of course recieves some of that so while a docter swears the hypocratical oath to help whoever he can, personal biases can easily get in the way and those that blur Supergirl and Supes in as one might come down hard on him with things like "why'd you save her, she's nothign but a monster" where as if he didn't do anything then the few who blame her death on him he could say "i couldn't do anything for her" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Any ideas on what should eb Wonder Woamns Disads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Any ideas on what should eb Wonder Woamns Disads? Psychological Limtations might include: Noblesee Oblige (Common, Strong) Torn feelings on Man's world-both intrigued and annoyed (Com, Mod) Overconfidence (V.C, Mod) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 What I have so far is: PI Hunted by Ares Hunted by Fury Exiled Naieve code of the amazon looking for about another 40, with only 5 coming from hunteds max or 10 from psyc lims (Or is Naieve a Phys lim?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Maybe DNPCs for all her fellow amazons and mother? Might be too many points. John Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Here she is Boys and Girls, the wonder of wonders Animated Wonder Woman Player: Val Char Cost 60 STR 50 25 DEX 45 25 CON 30 17 BODY 14 13 INT 3 12 EGO 4 15 PRE 5 24 COM 7 25 PD 10 20 ED 12 5 SPD 15 20 REC 6 50 END 0 60 STUN 0 6" RUN02" SWIM012" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 201 Cost Power END 27 Enchanted Bracelets: Desolidification (affected by HtH attacks) (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) 4 18 Magic Lasso: Stretching 6", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4) 30 Flight: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) 3 Powers Cost: 75 Cost Martial Arts Maneuver 4 Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike 3 Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls 4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort 4 Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort 3 Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on 6 Weapon Element: Axes, Maces, Hammers, and Picks, Blades, Clubs, Lariots, Polearms and Spears, Staffs Martial Arts Cost: 24 Cost Skill 6 Animal Handler (Bovines, Canines, Equines, Felines, Raptors) 12- 3 Climbing 14- 3 Combat Driving 14- 2 KS: Greek Mythology 11- 2 KS: Ancient Greece 11- 4 Language: Ancient Greek (idiomatic) 2 Language: Greek (fluent conversation) 3 Navigation (Air, Marine) 12- 3 Riding 14- 2 Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) 12- 3 Tracking 12- 0 TF: Chariots, Equines 6 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Lariots, Staffs Skills Cost: 39 Cost Perk 5 Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL Perks Cost: 5 Cost Talent 6 Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED) Talents Cost: 6 Total Character Cost: 350 Val Disadvantages 25 Hunted: Ares, Greek God of War 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) 20 Hunted: Fury 11- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) 20 Psychological Limitation: Code of the Amazon (Common; Total) 15 Psychological Limitation: Naieve (Uncommon; Total) 30 Dependent NPC: Amazons 8- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x32 DNPCs) 0 Dependent NPC: Mother 8- (As powerful as the PC; Useful noncombat position or skills) 15 Psychological Limitation: Over confident (Very Common; Moderate) 15 Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major 10 Social Limitation: Exiled (Occasionally; Severe; Not Limiting In Some Cultures) Disadvantage Points: 150 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 0 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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