Chuckg Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever And the glory of that awesomeness is exactly what the Spidey writers were trying to recapture with the Spider-vs-FL comic. They just, you know, ENTIRELY MISSED THE POINT. The story was about the heroism of refusing to give up even at impossible odds, even in defeat. Not about how cosmic powers of the universe will job like the Rock vs.Triple H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I have an explanation for the Deathstroke thing: He had someone build the following device Transfer 10d6 all Dex & Speed to Dex & speed(+1/2), AE (+1), Fully Invisible (-1) Only vs individuals linked to the speed force (-1), IIF (-1/4) So the general gist of it is Flash went down in dex & speed while Slade went up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I have an explanation for the Deathstroke thing: He had someone build the following device Transfer 10d6 all Dex & Speed to Dex & speed(+1/2), AE (+1), Fully Invisible (-1) Only vs individuals linked to the speed force (-1), IIF (-1/4) So the general gist of it is Flash went down in dex & speed while Slade went up... I just figured he was the GM's pet, and that it was about 2:00 am after four or more beers when they played out that fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I just figured he was the GM's pet' date=' and that it was about 2:00 am after four or more beers when they played out that fight.[/quote'] Perhaps the beers were the charges and foci for that power JmOz mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The Marvel Vs DC was a popularity contest. The fans voted the winners. They had two stupid endings for each fight we just got to pick which one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Actually I love that fight. Me too. And Spidey can beat Firelord, temporarily, if he pulls out all the stops. So I've got no problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Just remembered something else with the Deathstroke fight in IDENTITY CRISIS: Deathstroke supposedly defeats Kyle by slapping his hang on the ring and using his willpower to override Kyle's. At that point in time, however, Kyle's Green Lantern ring was set to respond to his brainwave patterns only. ("JLA: Foreign Bodies"). Willpower would have been entirely irrelevant... Kyle's ring simply wouldn't be picking up any signal from Deathstroke's mind at all, even if he was *wearing* it and not just touching it. For anyone except Kyle Rayner and people he specifically grants authorization, that ring is an inert object. I grant you that this is not a feature of old-school GL generic rings, but for a long while Kyle was not wearing an old-school generic GL ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever This is lifted from my much-repped response to folks who challenged the notion that the Spidey v. Firelord made any sense and challenged the notion that it could be simulated in Champions terms: As I understand it: Spidey can lift 10 Marvel tons. Colossus, early on, could lift 75 Marvel tons and has ranged in the 90-100+ Marvel tons as he gained age and experience. Let's keep in mind that Marvel tons and real-world tons don't mean the same thing because Thor and the Thing and the Hulk have lifted far more than their stated tonnage capacity on a regular basis. Spidey has been able to lift and throw large automobiles pretty easily and has been seen to struggle and lift, or hold in place, objects that I suspect violate his 10 ton limit. If Spidey has a 10 ton limit then I believe he can push beyond the 10 point normal cap for pushing on a fairly regular basis, if we want to talk in Hero terms. As far as defenses, Marvel has never been to exacting. Apparently, Marvel has decided that if you soften up Firelord with a building falling on him and the explosion of a gas station, he can then be knocked out by multiple pushed blows by Spidey. Commentary on Spidey's capabilities in comics have likened his combat style to an acrobatic martial art that takes advantage of his flexibility, speed, and strength, as well as his wall-crawling so you should feel free to give him martial arts and/or combat skill levels. I'd give him a 45 strength and some hth combat skill levels, web skill levels, and some overall combat skill levels, with probably 2 overall skill levels to boot. Spidey is awesome and has a huge amount of experience. I'd probably also give him passing strike and flying dodge and flying grab. In game terms Spidey can throw a mean punch with the momentum of a Spidey Leap or Swing and levels thrown into damage classes. Frankly, Spiderman should be built on 700+ points to do what he can do in the comics. Now, let's assume Firelord's Power Cosmic augments his intrinsic physical defenses because I think that's a safe assumption from reading the comics and from looking at power cosmic enhanced characters in the old Marvel Superheroes RPG. For example, Silver Surfer could raise any one of his stats to Unearthly Status if he chose to with the Power Cosmic. That's one heck of a multipower. So, let's review. A frustrated, bewildered Firewing has been put through the ringer by a guy who shouldn't cause him any problems, Spiderman. He's been hit by a lot of heavy falling debris and been exposed to a large explosion. He weathered these blasts but is softened up for Spidey's punches. How can we demonstrate that in game terms? Firestorm could have a decent PD, ED, and Damage Resistance - along with an invisible Force Field whose source is the Power Cosmic. Firestorm is bruised and battered by environmental attacks and is low on endurance. Spidey pushes, and sweeps a surprised Firelord. This brings Firelord to negative stun until his recovery. Spidey is pooped. Firelord recovers and is back up and shunts the power cosmic pool into an aid to endurance. Spidey is in trouble but backup arrives. I think this works okay as a game mechanic and I think, as a comic book concept, the Power Cosmic has had a fluid history concerning its relative might to other things. This might best be explained by the choices Heralds make in how they use the Power Cosmic. If a Herald uses the Power Cosmic to withstand attacks, then it probably takes Hulk Class threats to put stun on them. But do they always use the Power Cosmic that way? Would they feel the need against a puny guy like Spiderman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever This is lifted from my much-repped response [...] Don't break any arms patting yourself on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Don't break any arms patting yourself on the back. Why you gotta rain on my parade? I'm proud of the post and I got a lot of rep for it and the post is pertinent to this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever /And/ the lurkers support you in e-mail too. I'm /sure/. Mentioning the post and recapping its contents was germane to the discussion. The remainder was either 1) you stroking your own ego in public or 2) trying the 'appeal to popularity' debate fallacy. The first is off-putting, the second both off-putting and disengenuous. But go ahead, let's just go right back to the part where me posting in opposition to you is me personally attacking you, raining on your parade, or whatever else you're going to call it *this* week. Go ahead. God knows that I just /live/ for flame wars, and never once want to actually debate the facts of an issue without having to sidetrack into bitter personal quarrels. /sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever /And/ the lurkers support you in e-mail too. I'm /sure/. Mentioning the post and recapping its contents was germane to the discussion. The remainder was either 1) you stroking your own ego in public or 2) trying the 'appeal to popularity' debate fallacy. The first is off-putting, the second both off-putting and disengenuous. But go ahead, let's just go right back to the part where me posting in opposition to you is me personally attacking you, raining on your parade, or whatever else you're going to call it *this* week. Go ahead. God knows that I just /live/ for flame wars, and never once want to actually debate the facts of an issue without having to sidetrack into bitter personal quarrels. /sarcasm Lighten up, Francis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever See there is this canadian Mutant with claws and a healing factor, and this alien who normaly fights GL's and Superman who is super strong, has knives, and a even BETTER healing factor. They meet up in an intergalactic bar and throw down (over some stupid, this is how bar brawls start issue), they take it behind the bar, and then some fight noices, then wolverine stands up and says "He's the best at what he does bub" Shows you how popularity can turn the tide of common sense I've often thought that the only way to do that fight is for them to have both said "Screw fighting for some stupid galactic bozos. We're in a bar. Last guy sober enough to stand wins." Not that it would have been any more reasonable for Wolvie to win, but it would have been funnier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Eh, if it was a drinking contest, Logan would cheat. (whispering to the bartender) "So, this guy got any special senses?" "Outside of psychically tracking people, nope." "So he can't smell if, for example, you gave me non-alcoholic beer?" *muttering* "... the things I do to save the flamin' world..." "Nope." "Or if you gave him, mmm, that booze Hercules had that one time, that got Galactus drunk?" "You're not even supposed to know about that, it was in an alternate future timeline. Much less me actually stocking that!" "This is a crossover, bub, we can break any rules we like. Shuddup and pour." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Perhaps they could play old maid for it. one of the worst fights I ever saw was the Hulk v Thing 90's style. It took two comics and in the FF comic the once again mutated thing (spikey and stronger than evar!) and the recently depowered Gray Hulk (Mr. Fixit). In the FF story the thing basically beats the crap out of him thinking he's a Hulk Wannabe. (Fixit keeps his mouth shut so that he doesn't give away his identity) Then in the Hulk, Mr. Fixit out thinks the Thing, and ends the fight by basically drowning him and then reveals his identity. It was...unfulfilling. The Thing should have had at least one clean win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The Superman v. Thor fight was disappointing...one of the most-debated matchups in comics history and we get a couple panels. I understand that you don't have a lot of space to tell this huge story arc...but if we're going to get so short-shrifted, why have them go one-on-one at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The Superman v. Thor fight was disappointing...one of the most-debated matchups in comics history and we get a couple panels. I understand that you don't have a lot of space to tell this huge story arc...but if we're going to get so short-shrifted' date=' why have them go one-on-one at all?[/quote'] Yeah--almost seems like that could be it's own crossover book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suleyman Rashid Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The Superman v. Thor fight was disappointing...one of the most-debated matchups in comics history and we get a couple panels. I understand that you don't have a lot of space to tell this huge story arc...but if we're going to get so short-shrifted' date=' why have them go one-on-one at all?[/quote'] At least the right guy won that one, badly done or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The worst comic book superfight ever? Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. 'Nuff Said, True Believer's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Actually for sure let down there is always the Red Skull vs Kingpin. The Skull, in a cloned body of Steve Rogers with his intelligence, wiles, and skill, jumps on the fat guy's feet. Get's bear hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Actually for sure let down there is always the Red Skull vs Kingpin. The Skull, in a cloned body of Steve Rogers with his intelligence, wiles, and skill, jumps on the fat guy's feet. Get's bear hug. Heh, I remember that one. I also remember thinking "So much for the vaunted Master Race eh?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever At least the right guy won that one' date=' badly done or not.[/quote'] (restrains self from lunging for hammer...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suleyman Rashid Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever (restrains self from lunging for hammer...) What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKJAM! Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I figure every time Firelord goes into an intergalactic bar, someone brings up the Spider-Man thing, and every time he says, "Didn't happen." "But I heard it from--" "Didn't. Happen." "Riight." "Am I going to have to use the stick?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I haven't read that many main stream comics since the 80s, so I'm going for the JLU animated series, Superman vs the Samurai tribute that looked like Zan. Superman is always forgetting he's invulnerable on that show, but to forget his speed, his strength, and his heat vision in the same scene...damn. In the comics, as much as I like Planetary, alternate Jakita Wagner vs alternate Wonder Woman sucked, as did the casual offing of Superman in that sequence. I did read the Deathstroke vs the JLA thing. Painfully dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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