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Pirate Weapons?


CrosshairCollie

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Do any of the present sourcebooks have stats for the old 1500-1600s firearms like Wheel Locks, Flintlocks and Blunderbusseseseseseses? Ultimate Martial Artist has rapiers and cutlasses and the like, but I'm checking to see what's out there before I commit myself to making up stats for the firearms and cannons (and Fantasy HERO should work for the few types of armor that were about in those days).

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Fantasy Hero has some primitive firearms as well. It's a pretty simple matter to combine what they have there with the standard shotgun modifiers to make blunderbusses (blunderbi? :P )

 

They also used grenades during that time period, which looked less like a WWII green pineapple and more like a classic black-bomb-with-sputtering-fuse.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Fantasy Hero has some primitive firearms as well.

Stat-chart on p.166, discussion on p.173.

 

To add flintlocks, I'd keep the same damage, Concentration (1/2 DCV); I'd drop the Extra Time to 2 Phases, and the Activation to 13-.

 

It's a pretty simple matter to combine what they have there with the standard shotgun modifiers to make blunderbusses (blunderbi? :P )

 

They also used grenades during that time period, which looked less like a WWII green pineapple and more like a classic black-bomb-with-sputtering-fuse.

Well, they were a black sphere with a sputtering fuse. ;)

 

EB or RKA, range limited to STR, AoE Radius Non-selective, Activation, etc. ;)

 

BTW, FH only has personal gunpowder weapons; you'll have to do cannons yourself.

 

And don't forget, when a ship ran out of gunpowder, it had to put into port and buy more; no facilities for making it at sea. :eg:

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Guest Major Tom

Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

As far as grenades in that time period go, there were also improvised grenades,

which were made by filling a glass jar with gunpowder, broken glass, nails, and

a fuse. There's an account of Blackbeard's final battle in which the use of this

particular type of grenade was described.

 

Of course, the greatest weapon of any pirate's arsenal was fear. Blackbeard

(one of the worst of the pirates of that era), on the night before his last

fight, held a party with his crew. At one point during this party, he sat at a

table across from a couple of his men, crossed his pistols under the table,

blew out the lamp and fired them. One crewman avoided getting hit, but the

other wound up with a shattered kneecap. When the crewman asked why he

had done that, Blackbeard's reply was that if he didn't kill somebody now and

again, people would forget to be afraid of him (as if boarding a ship with slow-

burning matches strung in his beard and drawn cutlass wasn't enough to scare

the bejesus out the folks that he plundered).

 

Ironically, by shooting that crewman, Blackbeard inadvertantly saved his life,

since the crewman had to be left behind at port to have his leg attended to.

 

 

Major Tom :eg:

Pirate Scourge of the Hero Boards (Arrrr...)

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

As far as grenades in that time period go, there were also improvised grenades,

which were made by filling a glass jar with gunpowder, broken glass, nails, and

a fuse. There's an account of Blackbeard's final battle in which the use of this

particular type of grenade was described.

 

Broken glass, nails, bits of old iron --- sounds like the typical "payload" of a blunderbuss. :winkgrin:

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Rifling is a 15th Century invention. It wasn't commonly used in warfare until the 1800s, though, since a bullet had to be so snugly fitted to the barrel to engage the rifling that it took much longer to reload than a smoothbore. Sometimes a rifleman even had to resort to a mallet to ram the bullet down. It was much more efficient for combat purposes to just train soldiers on muskets.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

As far as grenades in that time period go, there were also improvised grenades,

which were made by filling a glass jar with gunpowder, broken glass, nails, and

a fuse. There's an account of Blackbeard's final battle in which the use of this

particular type of grenade was described.

 

Of course, the greatest weapon of any pirate's arsenal was fear. Blackbeard

(one of the worst of the pirates of that era), on the night before his last

fight, held a party with his crew. At one point during this party, he sat at a

table across from a couple of his men, crossed his pistols under the table,

blew out the lamp and fired them. One crewman avoided getting hit, but the

other wound up with a shattered kneecap. When the crewman asked why he

had done that, Blackbeard's reply was that if he didn't kill somebody now and

again, people would forget to be afraid of him (as if boarding a ship with slow-

burning matches strung in his beard and drawn cutlass wasn't enough to scare

the bejesus out the folks that he plundered).

 

Ironically, by shooting that crewman, Blackbeard inadvertantly saved his life,

since the crewman had to be left behind at port to have his leg attended to.

 

 

Major Tom :eg:

Pirate Scourge of the Hero Boards (Arrrr...)

 

For an incredible and very game worthy look at Blackbeard, check out "On Stranger Tides" by Tim Powers. A very similar feel to Pirates of he Caribbean... Pirates with magic. He does a whizz bang job of making all of old Ed Teach's eccentricities fit together, once you look at his action through the right filter (voudoun, in this case).

 

I used to have some fairly extensive write ups for early black powder guns, based on my experiences with them and my research on the topic. While I don't completely disagree with the FH writeups, they need a bit more to really convey the full effect, IMHO. If I can find my notes I may rebuild them, but right off the top of my head, the main differences I recall were altering the builds a bit more to reflect the various forms of lock, giving them all an extra +1 stun mod, and added DC (2 for pistols, 4 for long arms) with the Reduced by Range limit (much more dangerous when discharged point and blank). Using boostable charges wouldn't go awry either. Nasty side effect are in order as well... personally I've had a pistol discharge from friction while I was trying to pull the charge after a misfire (No ball, thankfully... getting the powder out of my skin sucked tho) while I've seen a couple of actual explosions, and heard about more (one friend blew up twice... once from an ignigted power horn, once from an apostle on his banolier)

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Thank you ... I had somehow managed to completely overlook the presence of firearms in Fantasy HERO.

 

And, to tangent my own thread, is it just me, or is 'blunderbuss' one of the best words to imagine the Swedish Chef saying?

 

"Gyafurdy hoonga bl00nderb00se."

"A Blunderbuss" would translate as ett muskedunder. Blunderbuss sounds way more Dutch that Swedish. :P

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

rifled muskets

 

No such thing. If it has rifling, it's not a musket.

 

And, because I like guns and showing off my knowledge, here's a little tidbit for you. As mentionend above, muskets (unrifled long guns) continued in military use for a significant time after rifling was invented because of the considerable rate of fire advantage, and because against the massed troop formations of the day, the accuracy needed to target an individual soldier wasn't needed. This changed with the introduction of the Minie ball, named after its French inventor (remember, as much as we get on their case, the French didn't actually start sucking until during/after World War I).

 

In profile, a Minie ball looks like a conical bullet, the shape familiar to modern shooters. However, the cylindrical portion was actually a thin-walled skirt. The Minie ball was manufactured with a diameter slightly less than the land diameter of the rifle it would be used in, which allowed it to be loaded easily. Upon firing, the expanding gasses to the rear of the Minie ball would cause the skirt to expand, sealing the bore and engaging the rifling.

 

 

 

On a diferent note, I second the recommendation for On Stranger Tides. It's an excellent book with a very interesting and potenially gameable setting, great characters, and plenty of voudoun/swashbuckling action.

 

 

Zeropoint

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Do any of the present sourcebooks have stats for the old 1500-1600s firearms like Wheel Locks' date=' Flintlocks and Blunderbusseseseseseses? [/quote']

 

I don't know about _present_ sourcebooks, but the old dual-statted ICE Pirates book had stats for a lot of these things.

 

It is a pretty cool book all round.

 

Unfortunately that doesn't do you any good at all. :(

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Stat-chart on p.166, discussion on p.173.

 

To add flintlocks, I'd keep the same damage, Concentration (1/2 DCV); I'd drop the Extra Time to 2 Phases, and the Activation to 13-.

 

I'm torn on the reload times, really. I understand the concept to at least pay lip service to reality, but I would actually like to make the guns useful enough to actually replace bows and arrows* (even with giving armor the 'half effect vs guns' limitation**).

 

I was considering a bit more damage (Flintlock pistol equal to Matchlock rifle, Flintlock rifle 1 DC higher), with 13- activation, Concentration (1/2 DCV) and buying the ammo as clips of 1 charge (for a single Full Phase reload). Then again, I creep into 'don't want to kill EVERYBODY' levels at that point.

 

 

 

*I was inspired, at least somewhat, for this game by picking up d20 past for $2 (for $20, I wasn't interested. But for $2? I'm interested), and I can find no concievable reason to use their Flintlocks rather than a bow. You can fire the bow once per round (multiple times per round with sufficient base-attack-bonus), compared to every 2 rounds for their flintlocks (1 round with Quick Reload feat) ... and the damage is essentially the same (1d8 vs 2d4).

 

**I opted for this, rather than the conditional AP as given in FH, partially because it was easier to enter on character sheets, partially because it makes ranged Martial Arts with the guns easier to work with; Advantaged Martial Arts hurt my brane.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

No such thing. If it has rifling, it's not a musket.

 

And, because I like guns and showing off my knowledge, here's a little tidbit for you. As mentionend above, muskets (unrifled long guns) continued in military use for a significant time after rifling was invented because of the considerable rate of fire advantage, and because against the massed troop formations of the day, the accuracy needed to target an individual soldier wasn't needed. This changed with the introduction of the Minie ball, named after its French inventor (remember, as much as we get on their case, the French didn't actually start sucking until during/after World War I).

 

In profile, a Minie ball looks like a conical bullet, the shape familiar to modern shooters. However, the cylindrical portion was actually a thin-walled skirt. The Minie ball was manufactured with a diameter slightly less than the land diameter of the rifle it would be used in, which allowed it to be loaded easily. Upon firing, the expanding gasses to the rear of the Minie ball would cause the skirt to expand, sealing the bore and engaging the rifling.

 

 

 

On a diferent note, I second the recommendation for On Stranger Tides. It's an excellent book with a very interesting and potenially gameable setting, great characters, and plenty of voudoun/swashbuckling action.

 

 

Zeropoint

So why are the muskets of the American Civil War called "rifled muskets" in just about EVERY book I have ever seen on the subject ? I think that what defines a "musket" is its method of loading (via the muzzle) rather than whether it was rifled of not.
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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

I'm torn on the reload times' date=' really. I understand the concept to at least pay lip service to reality, but I would actually like to make the guns useful enough to actually replace bows and arrows* (even with giving armor the 'half effect vs guns' limitation**).[/quote']

 

The ICE Pirates book gave guns points of piercing against armour, which is another way of doing the same thing.

 

Historically, though, guns weren't decisively superior to bows in an immediate sense until centuries after they had replaced bows. The real driving forces in the replacement were logistical and social.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

I suggest you check out the contemporary usage of the term.

 

If a weapon happened to officially be termed a "rifle musket", then, indeed, there is such a thing as a "rifle musket".

 

Could, in this case, 'rifle musket' be referring to the size and length of the weapon (rather than 'pistol musket')?

 

Not that I know squat-all about guns, historical or otherwise.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

The ICE Pirates book gave guns points of piercing against armour, which is another way of doing the same thing.

 

Historically, though, guns weren't decisively superior to bows in an immediate sense until centuries after they had replaced bows. The real driving forces in the replacement were logistical and social.

 

Historically speaking (which, since there is going to be magic in the game, is not necessarily a huge requirement), how would that be working out in about 1690?

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Could, in this case, 'rifle musket' be referring to the size and length of the weapon (rather than 'pistol musket')?

 

Not that I know squat-all about guns, historical or otherwise.

 

No. A handgun was a pistol, and a long arm was a musket. The word "rifle" as a synonym for a long arm didn't come about until after rifling was invented, and after people got lazy and began calling rifled muskets rifles.

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

So why are the muskets of the American Civil War called "rifled muskets" in just about EVERY book I have ever seen on the subject ? I think that what defines a "musket" is its method of loading (via the muzzle) rather than whether it was rifled of not.

 

Someone with a better grasp of the later periods will have to take up after me, but I can speak for the early period...

Late 16th century & early 17th century longarms came in a variety of sizes.

Roughly speaking, an arquebus is essentially a carbine, a short cavalry longarm.

A caliver fits the same role as the modern rifle, a full length shoulderarm light enough to be fired without bracing.

A musket was originally more of a light support weapon (cannon classes were named for raptors... the Musquet is the smallest weapon to use this naming convention) designed to be fired with a forked monopod brace.

 

Early period sources list the weight of muskets as encumbering, in the 20 pound range, but able to breach armor of proof out to 10 score paces, unproofed to 20 score, and unarmored men to 30 score paces. Figuring a pace roughly equal to a meter gives us clean 100", 200" and 300" rangebands.

 

AFAIK, as technology increased and armor faded away, the role of Muskets and Calivers begain to meld, till the newer lighter musket wound up as the long shoulder arm of choice. As inovation provided the means to load rifled guns faster, they became more common, till the "Rifled musket" description became redundant, and at some point was reduced to simply "rifles"

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

Other pirate weapons

belaying pin:used to make ropes fast(tied off)will also work as light clubs and they will be all over the place on the main deck you shouldn't have to walk more than 5 steps to find 1

fid(a wooden spike with a knob in the end)it is used to work large pieces of rope(works as a stilleto or club)the 3 I just had made are 16" long and made of very hard woods(ligum vitea and purple heart these woods are so dense that they don't float

monkey's fist a wieght in a fancy 6 sided knot can be used as a flail and can be made by a good knot tyer with out any tools in about 20 min

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Re: Pirate Weapons?

 

I don't know about _present_ sourcebooks, but the old dual-statted ICE Pirates book had stats for a lot of these things.

 

It is a pretty cool book all round.

 

Unfortunately that doesn't do you any good at all. :(

 

The ICE Pirates book is pretty "enh" in my opinion. I have a copy in my sell pile.

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