BoneDaddy Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Why buy 12 incredibly expensive points of speed, which will probably run you about 80 points? Buy 4 duplicates instead, with full feedback and a "must occupy same hex" limitation. With a 350 point hero, that costs about 36 points. Assuming a speed of 4, that's 20 attacks per combat turn. If 2 dupes attack on phase 3, the other three can use held actions until next phase, one per segment. You're vulnerable for those first two segments, but hey! It's low budget. What's wrong with the munchkinry I suggest? It's not only rules legal, it's even suggested (implicitly) in 5e. Talk me out of it, as the cowardly lion would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Area effect attacks are likely to be fatal. Unless you're constantly shuffling around in a huddle, you'll lose the first phase 12 of many combats. Other than that, well munched. As a GM, I'd be unlikely to allow such a build simply because it's too powerful, but that's only important in my own campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Mechanically it doesn't work too well with movement. If all your duplicates must occupy the same hex, they must all then move on the same phase. This doesn't play nicely with holding phases and makes for some nasty bookkeeping of which duplicate has how many phases left, etc. A 4-headed monster concept would work better for that power construct. Again, though, the question is whether the GM would allow a 4-headed monster in the game, or would consider it too powerful. Answer -- in most games, probably not, unless each head was pretty weak individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Area effect attacks are likely to be fatal. You talked me out of it. That's a darn good point. Duplication is an extremely potent power if applied correctly. The hard part is appllying it correctly. Back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster You get Rep for thinking outside the box. I always like to see the Rule Reapplied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster You talked me out of it. That's a darn good point. Duplication is an extremely potent power if applied correctly. The hard part is appllying it correctly. Back to the drawing board. For characters using a very similar Duplication build, see Black Alice and Multi Maki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster For characters using a very similar Duplication build' date=' see Black Alice and Multi Maki. Once more some very impressive builds. One question: the restrainable (not by grabs and entangles) - what does restrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Once more some very impressive builds. One question: the restrainable (not by grabs and entangles) - what does restrain? Appropriate charms, rituals, materials and/or incantations, researched using Arcane/Occult Lore or similar skills. For Multi Maki, binding and gaging will also work; her restrainable might also read "Gestures or Incantations". Black Alice in particular is designed to be terifying until the PCs figure out one or more of her weaknesses using the appropriate skills. She then goes down fast. It's meant to simulate the fairy tale effect where the monster is almost impossible to defeat until you discover X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Why buy 12 incredibly expensive points of speed, which will probably run you about 80 points? Buy 4 duplicates instead, with full feedback and a "must occupy same hex" limitation. With a 350 point hero, that costs about 36 points. Assuming a speed of 4, that's 20 attacks per combat turn. If 2 dupes attack on phase 3, the other three can use held actions until next phase, one per segment. You're vulnerable for those first two segments, but hey! It's low budget. What's wrong with the munchkinry I suggest? It's not only rules legal, it's even suggested (implicitly) in 5e. Talk me out of it, as the cowardly lion would say. Interesting idea, but, as has been pointed out, the full feedback is the killer: you effectively take 5xdamage (after defences) from AoE attacks, which is nasty. Actually, that makes me think: if you have a single duplicate and full feedback, and you are both caught in a AoE attack, I wonder if the stun 9which is applied simultaneously, in effect) adds for stunning purposes, like a coordinated attack. I'd assume not, but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Actually' date=' that makes me think: if you have a single duplicate and full feedback, and you are both caught in a AoE attack, I wonder if the stun 9which is applied simultaneously, in effect) adds for stunning purposes, like a coordinated attack. I'd assume not, but....[/quote'] Why assume that? How much more "coordinated" (time-wise) can you get than by using Full Feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster You talked me out of it. That's a darn good point. Duplication is an extremely potent power if applied correctly. The hard part is appllying it correctly. Back to the drawing board. Just have them go out with a fairly good Stealth and Concealment. Done correctly, you can drive the villians nuts with seemingly incredible powers. THUG: "Wait, weren't you over there?" Dup B: "Probably, but I'm here now." THUG: "Well, I'm gonna shoot you." BANG! (Aborts to dive behind some crates, after all they are CHEAP) THUG goes searching for Dup B. Dup A: "Hey, didn't you see me! I'm hiding over here." THUG (turning back around) "Wiseguy, huh?" (draws his gun on Dup A) (Dup A dives behind more boxes to avoid being shot.) Dup C pops up next to THUG and attacks hard and CON-stuns him. "Face it, you're outnumbered. One to one." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster I'd be willing to trade the Limitations against an Advantage that damage isn't multiplied. In fact I hand-waved that very thing in my last fantasy game, to model a magical "extra action" ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Two Weapon Fighting + Rapid Attack can be applied to your HtH ability for 15 points. That lets you Half Move and Sweep at greatly reduced penalties. Add in some levels with sweep, and the number of attacks you get per turn can become absurd very cheaply, if your GM approves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Why assume that? How much more "coordinated" (time-wise) can you get than by using Full Feedback? ...only if you go applying logic I base my assumption on the cost: in practice AoE attacks are devastating, but at only -1, I assume that you don't accumulate damage for stunning purposes: that would make for a higher lim IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Does Feedback apply from original to duplicate as well as vice-versa? Nasty feedback loop in an AE attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: Low Budget Speedster Two Weapon Fighting + Rapid Attack can be applied to your HtH ability for 15 points. That lets you Half Move and Sweep at greatly reduced penalties. Add in some levels with sweep' date=' and the number of attacks you get per turn can become absurd very cheaply, if your GM approves.[/quote'] Buy autofire on your strength, rapdi autofire, and spend a bundle on penalty skill levels and the five of you can thump a guy more than 25 times in one lousy phase. "This is called the 'Chunky Salsa' effect" - Shadowrun rules, 2e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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