Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

well, there's always the I-400 class japanese sub-carriers. 400 feet long, 8 torpedo tubes, a 140mm deck gun, several 25mm AA guns, and 3 floatplane fighter-bombers. Not to mention it could sail around the world.

There was a French sub, the Surcouf, IIRC, which mounted a pair of 8in. deck guns!.

 

I used to have a character sheet of sorts for the I-400. I even used one in a time-travel scenario in a game. One of the players told me the sub (as drawn on the hex map) was too big! Another player, who had a bit more WWII knowledge said "Bets?"

 

As for the Surcouf, there's a character sheet (of sorts) in GAC 2nd Edition. I think GAC 1st Edition has stats for the I-400.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Just about the only German wunderwaffen I can remember right now are the sonic cannon (designed to kill soldiers with a minute's exposure) and the 'kubelblitz', which is more of a wonky post-war rumor than anything else. I.e., supposedly a 'flying saucer' equipped with energy weapons.

 

And I remember hearing that Japan was working on some sort of 'death ray' at war's end that was used to kill people in a few tests. I think it was based on projected microwaves?

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Just about the only German wunderwaffen I can remember right now are the sonic cannon (designed to kill soldiers with a minute's exposure) and the 'kubelblitz', which is more of a wonky post-war rumor than anything else. I.e., supposedly a 'flying saucer' equipped with energy weapons.

 

And I remember hearing that Japan was working on some sort of 'death ray' at war's end that was used to kill people in a few tests. I think it was based on projected microwaves?

 

Never heard of that -- but a good Pulp/GAC scenario would have them stealing the idea from Tesla and his (real world) "death ray."

 

(EDIT: Not saying the Japanese can't create such things on their own, but having "enemy agents" steal American technology is too common a Pulp plot to ignore!)

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Never heard of that -- but a good Pulp/GAC scenario would have then stealing the idea from Tesla and his (real world) "death ray."

 

True.

 

And when I look at the Maus and Ratte, a part of me wonders if maybe Der Stahlmaske lived to provide his fiendish genius to Germany in yet another war.

[Cancer]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Allied engineering turns icebergs into aircraft carriers

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

This sounds like a DH article!

[megaplayboy]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

There's a couple games for the PS2 which are pretty cool as a source of inspiration for "superweapons"(specifically superships): Naval Ops: Warship Gunner and the follow up, Naval Ops: Warship Commander

[ThothAmon]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

There was a French sub' date=' the Surcouf, IIRC, which mounted a pair of 8in. deck guns![/quote']

IIRC the infamous 'cruiser-sub' Surcouf was lost mysteriously during WWII after transfer from the occupied French Navy to the Free French. One of the worst submarine losses of all time.

 

Yep. Google Fu is go:

 

http://groups.msn.com/Surcouf/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us

 

http://groups.msn.com/Surcouf/jane39ssubpage.msnw

 

Just imagine the stress on the structure from firing those 8 inch guns

[ThothAmon]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

However' date=' at the start of the war Germany had an incredible advantage in technology over pretty much the whole rest of the world. So I wonder, if German R&D hadn't been so badly mismanaged, might they have held out longer or even fought to a stalemate?[/quote']

 

The Nazi party stifled a lot of the technological advancement by playing politics. The scientists had to compete for funding in an arena that was far worse than a standard academic gestalt.

 

Having said that, the Germans had their fair share of ****-ups. The German atom-bomb / nuclear reactor project was a reality but sadly (or perhaps not) their chief researcher had grossly overestimated the amount of fissile material required. If they had cottoned on to the idea of imploding the weapon they might have managed a stalemate. Can you put on a Tim Curry accent and say "Beryllium sphere"?

[Black Omega]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Never heard of that -- but a good Pulp/GAC scenario would have them stealing the idea from Tesla and his (real world) "death ray."

 

(EDIT: Not saying the Japanese can't create such things on their own, but having "enemy agents" steal American technology is too common a Pulp plot to ignore!)

For that matter, some sources still say the Japanese tested a nuclear device just before the end of World War II but it was too late to have any effect on the war and took place in North Korea, so it's impossible to verify.

[gewing]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

To wax serious for a bit' date=' I have to wonder if all these Secret Weapons weren't part of the reason the Reich lost the war. With the sole exception of the Me-262, few if any of them panned out (and the 262 was late to the fight). Perhaps if Germany had been less obsessed with wacky contraptions like coal-powered fighters, and instead worked on more-conventional-but-better aircraft to replace the Fw-190 and the Me-109, perhaps they wouldn't have fallen so far behind? IIRC tank development went the same way, plenty of development of superheavy tanks and whatnot when all they really needed was to crank out more Panzers with 88s.[/quote']

 

 

heck, on tanks, even the 88 was not absolutely necessary, their long 75 could, iirc take out anything they faced. The 88 was much more flexible, however, with much better HE effects.

 

If they had cranked out more Panthers instead of Tiger 2s...

 

IIRC the Fw 190 was competent enough throughout the war. They never had a really good bomber, though the Ju88 was adequate in some roles. They never had a heavy bomber in service.

The Me109 should imo and iirc have been phased out by late 42 at the latest. The FW190 was far better in most respects. oh well.

 

If they had focussed on subs instead of trying to build surface ships to match the British fleet... "Sink the Bismark" is a great song, but the ship was realistically unnecessary for German plans.

 

Has anyone else read "The Foresight war" by Anthony Williams?

 

Imagine two historians from 2002, one british, one German, wake up to find themselves in iirc 1936. One in London, one in Berlin.

 

[megaplayboy]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Well, the Germans did have huge stockpiles of nerve gas by the time of D-Day, and had Hitler not been squeamish about it(due to his own experiences in WW1), it might have turned the invasion into a catastrophe.

[gewing]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Well, actually I would dispute this. Sure, the USA did do a lot to help The U.K. and the Soviets with equipment and had more than enough stuff for there own troops at the same time, but from the German pesrpective it D-Day was just the final coffin nail. The war was lost in the east against the Red Army at Stalingrad. That was the decisive battle that also crushed in the German people the hope that the war could be won.

That does not mean that D-Day was not neccessary - Stalin demanded a second front since 1942 to lift the pressure from the Red Army -, but even during the last days of the war German troops were deployed do fight the Soviets even while the western Allies were advancing. Or, to put it in a different way: The western allies were able to advance more quickly because in a doubt troops were moved east to fight the "Bolshevik menace".

 

Regarding research in miracle weapons and loosing the war: People, get real!

Yes, Germany had one of the best and most modern military forces in the world when the war started: Poland - occupied in 3 weeks; France - 6 weeks, including Luxemburg, Belgium and the Netherlands; Denmark - 1 day; Norway - few weeks; Yugoslavia, Greece, later the former ally Italy; not to forget most of the European part of Russia, all of the Ukraine, Belorus, the Baltic States; troops deployed to North Africa.

All of that with axis partners that were less than top notch (Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Italy - Japan was no help at all), more like last notch.

 

So, Nazi-Germany did that because it had a well equipted army. But when you have to fight the whole world , you will soon find out that the German proverb "Viel Feind', viel Ehr'!" (More enemies, more glory!) is only true as long as you can COUNT your enemies! And even good equipment breaks, is used up, falls into the hands of the enemy - and when bombs rain down on your cities, and soldiers die in the hundreds of thousands on the eastern front, and you have to send in boys and grandfathers to fight the war, you have lost the war. And no miracle weapon will save the day. And no other weapon either.

 

 

 

In other words, countries the size of montana should not necessarily believe they can conquer the world?

 

Or

 

being outnumbered 50 to 1 makes for great songs, but painful wars?

[gewing]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

For that matter' date=' some sources still say the Japanese tested a nuclear device just before the end of World War II but it was too late to have any effect on the war and took place in North Korea, so it's impossible to verify.[/quote']

 

Depending on who you believe, there may have been lots of "interesting" projects. Look at the documented US interest in Psychic phenomena and weather control, even up to the present.

I have read that the Germans were working on a "vortex gun" that would fire what sounds almost like a supersonic burning smoke ring at aircraft. Doubts? NAH!

 

The Japanese are reputed to have been trying to develop an energy beam, but I never heard it had reached the point of testing.

 

The Japanese certainly had ACTIVE programs for Chemical and Biological weapons. A lot of POWs apparently died in the testing, and iirc the officers in charge were sheltered after the war rather than executed as the monsters they were.

 

 

I've been thinking about a "secret history of WWII" background where the real reason for the massive firebombings of Dresden, etc were that there were occult summonings underway. It could also be used to explain the atomic bombings.

 

I was thinking that the Germans were trying to summon some of the Giants of the Norse mythology, but I haven't decided who or what the Japanese were trying to summon.

[gewing]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Well' date=' the Germans did have huge stockpiles of nerve gas by the time of D-Day, and had Hitler not been squeamish about it(due to his own experiences in WW1), it might have turned the invasion into a catastrophe.[/quote']

 

 

We had a big discussion of this on Tanknet a few months ago, but aimed at

"what if HItler used Sarin on British Cities?"

 

 

Most of us (non Former East germans, at least) felt that the next day every plane in Britain that could be manned and make it at least one way to Germany would be loaded with the British Gas stockpile. They had LOTS of the older Non Nerve gasses, and since most of them were heavier than air, the bomb shelters in Germany wouldn't have been much use...

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

I have read that the Germans were working on a "vortex gun" that would fire what sounds almost like a supersonic burning smoke ring at aircraft. Doubts? NAH!

 

If this is the one I'm thinking of, it fired a "plug" of compressed air and could shattered a thick oak plank at ranges of... 200? yards.

 

I was thinking that the Germans were trying to summon some of the Giants of the Norse mythology, but I haven't decided who or what the Japanese were trying to summon.

 

The Dragon King under the sea.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

One of the villainous orgs developed over the years in campaigns I've participated in was something called the Infinite Reich, basically a group of time-travelling/dimension-hopping Nazi bastards. They weren't even always German or even always human. In one FH game, we ran into Nazi Gnomes!

 

The current leader of the Reich's special operations forces is

Ubersturmfuhrer Karlheinz Ravenhoff. Every wacky secret weapon, ubercommando, etc has shown up--the last time I used them, they had cybered-up megalodon sharks with giant frickin' laser beams on their heads, surfboard-bound Nazi commandos, and a huge submarine command ship with battleship caliber guns on deck.

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Well' date=' the Germans did have huge stockpiles of nerve gas by the time of D-Day, and had Hitler not been squeamish about it(due to his own experiences in WW1), it might have turned the invasion into a catastrophe.[/quote']

 

As I understand it, Hitler's WWI experiences resulted in his making some bad decisions regarding what weapons projects to pursue. Of course, he wasn't the only one....

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

surfboard-bound Nazi commandos

 

SURF NAZIS MUST DIE!!!

[megaplayboy]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

We had a big discussion of this on Tanknet a few months ago, but aimed at

"what if HItler used Sarin on British Cities?"

 

 

Most of us (non Former East germans, at least) felt that the next day every plane in Britain that could be manned and make it at least one way to Germany would be loaded with the British Gas stockpile. They had LOTS of the older Non Nerve gasses, and since most of them were heavier than air, the bomb shelters in Germany wouldn't have been much use...

Don't see how that would have been worse than Hamburg/Dresden. Incendiaries at night, explosives by day, tens of thousands dead.

 

If it took place in 41, we probably would have seen a ceasefire agreement.

[Susano]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Don't see how that would have been worse than Hamburg/Dresden. Incendiaries at night' date=' explosives by day, tens of thousands dead.[/quote']

 

Don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo.

well, yeah. The basic nightmare of the Allies would have been effective use of nerve gas at Normandy, since there was nowhere to escape to, the gear used against WW1 gases would have been useless, and they would have had little warning of its use.

[Cancer]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

I remember a satirical essay in Analog, circa 1970, titled "The Amphibious Cavalry Gap", which went off extrapolating on why there were so many more horses in the Warsaw Pact nations than the industrialized West, and drew silly conclusions about weapons systems and other stuff.

 

The coolest thing about it was the intro art. Sort of a sci-fi trooper, I think carrying a rocket launcher of some kind, astride a horse, which itself is standing on an oversized surfboard which has a pair of rocket engines on its stern propelling it through the water.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

The Dragon King under the sea.

 

Oh, the irony.

 

Godzilla wasn't awakened by the nukes. He was awakened by the ritual the nukes were dropped to disrupt!

[st barbara]

Re: Wunderwaffen!!! - Secret German Warmachines of WW 2

 

Someone mentioned the French Submarine "Surcouf" with its 8" guns ? After World War I the British converted two of the Steam powered K Class to what became known as the M Class submarines with a 12" gun each ! Another interesting German aircraft oe World War II was the Henschel Hs 129. This was a ground attack aircraft some variants of which had a series of 6 recoiless 75mm tubes firing down and to the rear of the aircraft . It was used effectively on the Eastern Front to attack Soviet tank formations.