gilby Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Anyone have any writeups for weapons of the American Civil War era? Mostly your handguns, muskets and rifles, but also possibly artillery and melee weapons. I'd check my 4th edition Western Hero for ideas, but I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Anyone have any writeups for weapons of the American Civil War era? Mostly your handguns, muskets and rifles, but also possibly artillery and melee weapons. I'd check my 4th edition Western Hero for ideas, but I can't find it. Most melee weapons can be derived from the hand-to-hand weapon in either 5th Edition or Fantasy Hero. I also offer this: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsvehicles/ussmonitor.html The stats for the guns might help for artillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Coincidentally I just started to do some research on this. However, so far I am only starting to compile a list of weapons before I start seeking the information I need to model them. If I come up with something I will post it here. But I am pretty bad about having my interests wander so I won't promise anything. By this time next week I could involved in something else. I went to the state library during my morning break and found a pretty good book for Union pistols: Civil War Pistols by John D. McAulay, Published by Andrew Mowbray Inc. 1992. ISBN : 0-917218-55-8. It doesn't have much on the Confederate weapons though. I also got another book: Guns of the Old West, by Charles Edward Chapel, published by Coward-McCann, Inc. 1961. It looks like it might be pretty good and covers all sorts of guns, including the LeMat pistols. But I can't say much yet since I haven't gotten into it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Here's a link to someone's Western Hero firearms charts: http://www.geocities.com/blademaster01757/westernarms.html Doesn't have muskets though, I don't think. Confederate weapons are generally pretty easy to find stats for, since the vast majority of them are the same ones used by the Union. In fact the Confederacy, with little arms production capability of its own, relied heavily on captured or stolen Union weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Here's a link to someone's Western Hero firearms charts: http://www.geocities.com/blademaster01757/westernarms.html Doesn't have muskets though, I don't think. Confederate weapons are generally pretty easy to find stats for, since the vast majority of them are the same ones used by the Union. In fact the Confederacy, with little arms production capability of its own, relied heavily on captured or stolen Union weapons. True and , apart from the Le Mat which was imported from France, and the rare Coffer which was a sort of "semi-cartridge" revolver (the ball went in the front of the cylinder and a cartridge containing powder and primer went in the rear. the cartridge had a small opening in the front) most of the Conferderate weapons were copies of existing weapons (often with brass frames). Most commonly the 1851 Colt Navy but the Whitney and the old Colt Dragoon were also copied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeto Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Don't forget the Remington pistol, and the Savage that you rotated the cylinder with a second trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Hunting through my "militaria" section I have managed to uncover a thin (57 pages) chapbook entitled "Confederate Guns and their Current Prices" by Martin Rywell. (Pioneer Press, Union City Tennessee) it has a number of picture and some useful information, including some notes written by Josiah Gorgas, Cheif Of Ordinance for the Confederacy. It seems to date from about 1974. You might be able to contact the publisher as they seem to have published a number of books on antique firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Don't forget the Remington pistol' date=' and the Savage that you rotated the cylinder with a second trigger.[/quote'] The Remington (second most popular pistol of the Civil War, after the Colt) and the Savage were both Union weapons. The Confederates used any that they could capture but seem not to have made copies of either of them themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats heres an interesting book on Old West guns for gaming Knuckleduster Publications has done some neat old west stuff, it was written for FUDGE originally, but should be convertible easy enough, I could ask Forrest Harris for permission to do some conversions or post some excerpts, if it would be useful... http://knuckleduster.com/ I hadnt been to the site in a while, now I have to get a couple of the scottish gunfighter figs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats My big question is, how many phases should it take to load a musket. I know the rough amount of time realistically, but in Champions you can reload a revolver in one phase without using a speed loader. I'm considering two phases for the musket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats it really depends on the musket in question heres a couple of examples from the book these come from the 1849-1855 section: Flintlock smoothbore musket: 15 seconds Kentucky Squirrel Rifle: 30 seconds US Model 1855 Rifle Musket: 25 seconds And from the 1861-1865 section: Springfield US Rifled Musket Model 1861: 20 seconds reloading for muskets got a little faster but not much as you can see, it was always a slow process book being the Knuckeduster Firearms Shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats it really depends on the musket in question heres a couple of examples from the book these come from the 1849-1855 section: Flintlock smoothbore musket: 15 seconds Kentucky Squirrel Rifle: 30 seconds US Model 1855 Rifle Musket: 25 seconds And from the 1861-1865 section: Springfield US Rifled Musket Model 1861: 20 seconds reloading for muskets got a little faster but not much as you can see, it was always a slow process book being the Knuckeduster Firearms Shop That would translate into what ? Two or three action phases in "Hero" terms. If a player has speed 4 and it takes 20 seconds to reload a rifled musket ( I think that the people who did this are assuming highly trained people. I certainly couldn't do it that fast !) he would start loading the musket on his first "action phase" and complete it (gun ready to fire) on his second ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats That would translate into what ? Two or three action phases in "Hero" terms. If a player has speed 4 and it takes 20 seconds to reload a rifled musket ( I think that the people who did this are assuming highly trained people. I certainly couldn't do it that fast !) he would start loading the musket on his first "action phase" and complete it (gun ready to fire) on his second ? No -- because two phases would cover only... 6 seconds. It takes 20 Segments to reload a rifled musket, so it would take a SPD 4 character.... 5 Phases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats it doesnt specify what kind of training the people had on reloading in the book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilby Posted March 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Most melee weapons can be derived from the hand-to-hand weapon in either 5th Edition or Fantasy Hero. I also offer this: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsvehicles/ussmonitor.html The stats for the guns might help for artillery. Yeah, a bayonette or calvary sabre is pretty easy...couldn't really think of anything special there. But the list of firearms for an 1860 campaign and the Monitor guns should be of help. We're not too worried about being that historically correct, but we do have one character making guns his schtick, and I was looking for something to work from. Any guesses on the damage and range mods for muskets? I'd assume a bit more potent than the era's rifles, but less accurate at range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats here we go folks from reading lots of books Like firepower by Hughs and talking to lots of people who have shot muskets flint locks 2 rounds a minute avg for a train person 3 for above avage The musket from 1830 on where built with precussion caps which elimates the need to prime the pan (fliping it open, priming it, closing it) you open the hammer and place cap on the nipple and set the hammer. flint locks that have been converted to cap have higher muzzle vel. failure rate 25% -just pull the hammer back and try again. range level at shoulder 190 yds, 45 degrees 400yds rifle musket precussion cap 2 rounds a minute trained 3 rounds a minute for vet (who have been motivated to learn to learn to load faster) out of a ten avarge men group one will never load fast but with hard work can get to a 2 rd a minute, and one will get it immeditaly and will be able to train to load 5 rds a minute. the rest in between. failure rate 1% range levle at shoulder 250 yds (not shure need to check) From Nofi's Waterloo campian book- Grounding his piece, the Musketeer held it steady with one hand while taking one of the 50 or so heavy paperwrapped cartridges from his pouch. He then bit the ball end of the cartridge off retaining the ball in his teeth. The musketeer then raised the musket and half cocked the hammer. the man then primed the musket by pouring some of the powder into the pan (which was left open due to the action) and close it (it open automaticaly (after 1690?) when fired) he would then pour the power down the barrel, tapping the musket against the ground with it's but. Then he spit the ball down the barrel followed by the paper cartridge. He then pulled his ramrod and inserted in the barrel and tapped it all down. replace the ramrod. now the piece is loaded. (at this time you could release the hald **** hammer and carry the weapon around a while ready to use) you then pulled the hammer back all the way aimed and fired. this was done in some armies with the bayonet fixed. There is an old thread in the archive (black powder). the rifle up to the invention of the minnie ball , 1840's had a rate of fire of one round a minute (you had to hammer the ball in ). the minnie ball allowed the rilfe to be loaded as fast as a musket. the percussion cap invented in 1800 used widley 1820's, See the movie glory (civil war), the last of the mohicans (spell?) Daniel Day Lewis, flipping channels came across the last seen of a burt lancaster movie and burt and buddy was across a stream from the villian, who shot burt friend - burt in a great long shot charges accross the stream as the bad guy is reloading (50 yds) and nails him (with a right) as he finishes up loading. Lord Ghee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats flintlock Failure rate 25% cap riflemusket 1% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats In Hero terms you as a musketeer have just fired in line of battle. your action phases. one: you release musket trigger (musket drops to waist level) and Grab a Cartridge from your ammo pouch (which is open) two: you bite the cartridge keeping the ball in your mouth Three: you grab the hammer and with casual strenght bring it to half ****. Four: You Prime the pan (Dex roll) and grab the pan and close it. Five : you allow butt to drop to ground as you pour powder and spit ball into barrel (attack). Six : you cram paper cartidge into barrel. seven: you grab ramrod. eight: you pull ramrod and insert into barrel and ram load to bottom (att action) Nine: you pull ramrod and inset into grove under barrel (attack action) ten : lift musket butt to shoulder grab hammer and pull to full ****. you are loaded. speed two 5 turns or one minute speed three three turns and one action segment 38 secounds to ready (average soldier operated at speed 3 ...) speed four 2 turns and a half 30 secounds speed five 2 turns 24 secounds and a mean Gm could make you make dex rolls or siill rolls on every phase remember the musket is grab by one hand this whole time. Lord Ghee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Meh, I like abstracting it. I might make a rule of thumb: 5 Turns for SPD 2, 3 Turns for SPD 3, 2 Turns for SPD 4. Or I'd use the Ten Phases list Lord Ghee provides and allow for a "Speed Loading" Skill to reduce it by a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Yeah, it seems like it would be useful to allow PCs to decrease their reload times by buying an appropriate skill. Just as long as they're not suddenly able to turn muzzle-loading muskets into autofire weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats looking at this list I rememberd that in the rev war the american army went from a twentyfive movement system to a 15 movement system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Hero rifle musket actions You as a rifled-musket armed civil war soldier have just fired in line of battle. Your action phases. One: you release the rifled-musket trigger and drop the rifle-musket butt to ground level and Grab a Cartridge from your ammo pouch (which is open) two: you bite the cartridge keeping the ball in your mouth Three: you pour powder and spit ball into barrel (attack). Four: you cram the paper cartridge into barrel. Five: you grab the ramrod. Six: you pull ramrod and insert into barrel and ram load to bottom (attack action) seven: you pull ramrod and inset into grove under barrel (attack action) Eight: as you lift Rifle-musket butt to your waist you grab the hammer and with casual strength bring it to halfcocked. Nine: you grab a Percussion cap out of the cap box on your belt. Ten: insert cap on Nipple lift to shoulder and grab hammer and pull to fullcock. You are loaded. Speed two 5 turns or one minute speed three, three turns and one action segment 38 seconds to ready (average soldier operated at speed 3 ...) speed four 2 turns and a half 30 seconds speed five 2 turns 24 seconds and a mean Gm could make you make dex rolls or skill rolls on every phase remember the rifle-musket is grab by one hand this whole time. Lord Ghee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Or, alternatively : Phase 1 __Drop the musket from 1 hand (dropping an object = 0 phase) __Gravity pivots the end of the musket dropped to the ground (0 phase) __Draw a Cartridge from the ready ammo pouch (1/2 phase*) __Bite off the end of the cartridge (1/2 phase) Phase 2 __Pour powder down the barrle (1/2 Phase) __Spit the ball down the barrle (1/2 Phase) Phase 3 __Insert wad into barrel (1/2 Phase) __Draw Ramrod (1/2 Phase*) Phase 4 __Ram the barrel (1/2 Phase) __Sheathe the Ramrod (1/2 Phase*) Phase 5 __Set the lock to half (1/2 Phase) __Draw a percussion cap (1/2 Phase*) Phase 6 __Place Percussion cap on nipple (1/2 Phase) __Set the lock to full (1/2 Phase) You are now ready to fire. 6 Phases, or 4 Phases with fastdraw (Actions marked with * are 0 Phase with successful fastdraw rolls) Speed 2 : 3.00 Turns (36 Seconds) or 2.00 Turns (24 Seconds) w. Fastdraw Speed 3 : 2.00 Turns (24 Seconds) or 1.33 Turns (16 Seconds) w. Fastdraw Speed 4 : 1.50 Turns (18 Seconds) or 1.00 Turns (12 Seconds) w. Fastdraw Note : 4 fastdraw rolls are required to get the 'fastdraw time', so this is not a reliable speed, but a maximum. The standard time, however, does not require any special rolls, and is sustainable. Counting the phase taken to actually fire : Speed 2 : 3.50 Turns (42 Seconds) or 2.50 Turns (30 Seconds) w. Fastdraw Speed 3 : 2.33 Turns (28 Seconds) or 1.66 Turns (20 Seconds) w. Fastdraw Speed 4 : 1.75 Turns (21 Seconds) or 1.25 Turns (15 Seconds) w. Fastdraw This gives a rate per minute of ~1.5 for poorly trained troops, 2 per minute for regular trained troops, ~3 per minute for veteran troops, and possibly 4 per minute for super elite ones, which all jibe (close enough) with the rates from your post 16. Edit : Rephrased the act of setting the hammer. I had used the word "****" but the filter didnt like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Phase 1 __Drop the musket from 1 hand (dropping an object = 0 phase) __Gravity pivots the end of the musket dropped to the ground (0 phase) __Draw a Cartridge from the ready ammo pouch (1/2 phase*) __Bite off the end of the cartridge (1/2 phase) Phase 2 __Pour powder down the barrle (1/2 Phase) __Spit the ball down the barrle (1/2 Phase) Phase 3 __Insert wad into barrel (1/2 Phase) __Draw Ramrod (1/2 Phase*) Phase 4 __Ram the barrel (1/2 Phase) __Sheathe the Ramrod (1/2 Phase*) Phase 5 __Set the lock to half (1/2 Phase) __Draw a percussion cap (1/2 Phase*) Phase 6 __Place Percussion cap on nipple (1/2 Phase) __Set the lock to full (1/2 Phase) Phase 7 Shoot! Phase 8 Throw weapon Phase 9 Flee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Re: Req: Civil War Firearms stats Phase 7 Shoot! Phase 8 Throw weapon Phase 9 Flee Classic Highland charge would be. Phase 7: Shoot! Phase 8: Drop weapon (zero phase) ready shield, draw basket hilted broadsword. Phase 9: CHARGE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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