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Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills


Andrea

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Hi,

as some of you might know I'm in the process of building a Hornblower Hero web-book. One of the first task is to define the list of skills that are necessary in order to manage most of the situations of the setting.

I've defined a list ( with the help of Theanswerman) and I'd like to know what do you think about it.

 

Signalling, Rigging Mastery, Ship Fitting, Sail Mastery, Knots Mastery, Sea Lore, Etiquette, Ship Administration, Naval Code, Gunnery, Ship Construction, Press Ganging, Leadership, Medicine, Surgery, Celestial Navigation, Weather Forecasting, Food Preservation, Cooking, Rowing, Administration, Gambling, Astronomy, Brawling, Cartography, Climbing, Dancing, Diplomacy, Drowsing, Foraging, Heraldry, Navy Organisation, Playing instrument, Oratory, Rappeling, Religion, Star Gazing, Swashbuckling, Trading, Carpentry, Metal Working, Infantry Drills, Weapon Proficiency ( Cutlass, Pike, Long Barreled Muskeet, Pistol), Chart Plotting, Fishing, Naval Tactics, Knowledge Skill (areas) Local Waters,

 

A note: I know that some of the skills can be substituted with the "Professional" ones but I think that having a specific skill can add flavor to the setting. So this is a point that I'd like to clarify with your help.

 

Thanks again

Andrea

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

A good Cooper was vital for a ship of any notable size. Lots of stuff was kept in barrels so the upkeep, repair and construction of new barrels was of vital importance. I'd call Cooper a professional skill which would compliment Carpentry. A Ship Construction person is normally call Shipwright.

 

If I get a chance to head over to the state library today I may dig up some more stuff for you.

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Hi,

as some of you might know I'm in the process of building a Hornblower Hero web-book. One of the first task is to define the list of skills that are necessary in order to manage most of the situations of the setting.

I've defined a list ( with the help of Theanswerman) and I'd like to know what do you think about it.

 

Signalling, Rigging Mastery, Ship Fitting, Sail Mastery, Knots Mastery, Sea Lore, Etiquette, Ship Administration, Naval Code, Gunnery, Ship Construction, Press Ganging, Leadership, Medicine, Surgery, Celestial Navigation, Weather Forecasting, Food Preservation, Cooking, Rowing, Administration, Gambling, Astronomy, Brawling, Cartography, Climbing, Dancing, Diplomacy, Drowsing, Foraging, Heraldry, Navy Organisation, Playing instrument, Oratory, Rappeling, Religion, Star Gazing, Swashbuckling, Trading, Carpentry, Metal Working, Infantry Drills, Weapon Proficiency ( Cutlass, Pike, Long Barreled Muskeet, Pistol), Chart Plotting, Fishing, Naval Tactics, Knowledge Skill (areas) Local Waters,

 

A note: I know that some of the skills can be substituted with the "Professional" ones but I think that having a specific skill can add flavor to the setting. So this is a point that I'd like to clarify with your help.

 

Thanks again

Andrea

 

PS: Bos'n: in charge of rigging, ropes and cordage: also in charge of discipline

PS: Sailmaker: in charge of the sails' condition

PS: Carpenter: in charge of wood working including damage repair

PS: Master Gunner: in charge of the armory and powder magazine

PS: Purser: in charge of ship's stores and the accounting thereof

PS: Ship's Smith: makes metal fittings as needed

PS: Sailing Master: in charge of ship's handling and navigation

PS: Cooper: in charge of the ship's barrels

PS: Surgeon: in charge of sickbay

PS: Cox'n: small boats' captain

PS: Ship's Cook: the guy that slings salt horse and dried peas

PS: Loblolly Boy: the surgeon's mate

PS: Topman: Foretop, Maintop and Mizzentop; expert in working the sails

PS: Seaman: a landlubber that can find the right rope at the right time and serve his gun

PS: Able Seaman: a true sailor well versed in all duties of a sailing ship

 

Land's man: a landlubber, can't find the head in broad daylight

 

Waisters or wasters: people that don't have a job when the ship beats to quarters, this can include the Carpenter, Cook and such. They do damage control and man the pumps as needed.

 

Petty Officers: Bos'n, Master, Surgeon, Master Gunner

 

Powder Monkeys: young boys that fetch powder, shot and wad as needed by a gun crew

 

Ship's boys: see powder monkey

 

Young Gentlemen: midshipmen, the most useless thing on the ship

 

Gunner's wife: not always a woman but usually in charge of the ship's boys

 

Might want to add SS: Physics as well...YOU try setting up a maintop mast at sea in a swell and tell me you don't need physics.

 

Also, Meteorology, Oceanography, Hydrology, Hydrography, Ship's Trim, Spherical Trigonometry, Mapmaking, Sea Lore (like never sail leave port on a Friday, firing the guns can stop the wind, sticking a marlin spike in the mast will bring up the wind, whitling will bring the wind, parsons are bad luck, scratching a backstay is good luck)

 

 

Try Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series, I am currently rereading it for the third time. The movie Master and Commander will give you a good idea what shipboard life was like.

 

If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

I don't suppose you'd be willing to outline what these skills are supposed to cover' date=' would you? For example, what exactly does Sail Mastery entail, and what does Stargazing do that Celestial Navigation doesn't already do for you?[/quote']

 

 

Actually, an able seaman can make sail (this includes all aspect of the sails and rigging), knot and splice (replacing and repairing of ropes, blocks and cordage), take the helm, row, climb like a monkey, balance on a spar, handle the ship's great guns (cannons, carronades etc including laying and pointing), fire a musket (pistol or rifle), wield a cutlass or boarding pike, take soundings, man the lead, and do all this under fire. I'd have to give an able seaman at least a PRE of 13 or 15. So PS: Able Seaman covers a great deal of skills.

 

Navigation would include knowing the stars, but just the primary one's involved, how to operate a sexton, spherical trig, how to read a chart, how to compare chronometers, how to figure magnetic deviation and some other things I don't recall. Personally I'd just use Navigation: Marine and forget all the other things.

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Thanks to all of you for your replies

 

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious I don't suppose you'd be willing to outline what these skills are supposed to cover, would you? For example, what exactly does Sail Mastery entail, and what does Stargazing do that Celestial Navigation doesn't already do for you?

I'm willing to describe any of the previous skills if I will able to do that and also create some examples for the different target level. Stargazing for example is not the same of Celestial Navigation because the last one requires the use and knowledge of the sextant.

 

Originally Posted by Ghost Archer Try Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series, I am currently rereading it for the third time. The movie Master and Commander will give you a good idea what shipboard life was like.

Thanks for your suggestions at the moment I'm using

  • The young sea officer's sheet anchor by Darcy Lever
  • The arming and fitting of English ships of war 1600-1815 by Brian Lavery
  • Nelson's Navy (The ships, Men and Organisation 1793-1815) by Brian Lavery
  • A Marine dictionary and terminology by Various Author
  • All the Patrick O'Brien books
  • All the Hornblower books

By the way I'm working out all of your suggestions to make a definitive list.

 

PS Edsel I thought many times about Coopering and I switched to Carpentry but I think that you're right. I'll put it back along with Shipwright

 

Ciao

Andrea

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Try Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series' date=' I am currently rereading it for the third time. The movie [i']Master and Commander[/i] will give you a good idea what shipboard life was like.

 

If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

 

The Lord Nicholas Ramage novels by Dudley Pope. Higher level of action than the Aubrey/Martin books - occasionally straining credibility, but fun.

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

I'm willing to describe any of the previous skills if I will able to do that and also create some examples for the different target level. Stargazing for example is not the same of Celestial Navigation because the last one requires the use and knowledge of the sextant.

I think, in that era, that's not a real distinction; I think you're trying to draw too many distinctions among skills. At that time, if you were anything more than a dilletante, if you knew enough about telescopes to use them for astronomical purposes, then you also knew how to use a sextant, a cross-staff/backstaff, etc. Since that time observational astronomy and celestial navigation have diverged, but back in the 1700's and early 1800's I don't think it's possible to have become adept at one while being ignorant of the other.

 

There were desperate attempts at determining longitude based on observations of celestial phenomena; timings of the positions of the Galilean moons of Jupiter were tabulated for exactly that purpose. Finding and identifying those needed a telescope (and so I infer that it'd go in your "Stargazing" skill), and using what you observed required the mathematics for doing the reductions ("Celestial Navigation"). Except for a student, or someone else whose skills weren't up to snuff (like Lt. Bush's in the Hornblower saga), it's implausible that one could do one of those and not the other.

 

Nowadays you can buy a pretty nice telescope, put it in your back yard, and do deep-sky observing without ever being introduced to a sextant or any sort of spherical trig, but I think that's a situation which has come about post-WW2. I recall the copy of Norton's Star Atlas I got in 1968, the same time as my little 60mm refractor, and it included a section on the use of a sextant. (I never read that section, since I've never handled a sextant.)

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Originally posted by Cancer : I think you're trying to draw too many distinctions among skills.

 

Mmmh.. Yes and No

Yes I'm going to get a lot of distinction among the skills because I really like the Rolemaster approach of having almost all the skills mapped out for all the predictable situations of gaming. Moreover I think that Maritime setting are very adapt to a skill detailed approach( but this is just my feeling)

 

And no because I do think that most of the skills you see presented were quite distinctive.

I agree that the average sailor is good in many of the skills aforementioned but among officers there's a great difference in how good a Captain is in Sail Trimming and a Boatswain ( with the latter often more skilled) and I'd like to maintain that difference in my game.

But obiouvsly someone can take all the skills and throw them away, using only navigation: depends on the level of realism that you'd like.

 

And about Celestial Navigationvs vs. Stargazing...

Originally posted by Cancer : it's implausible that one could do one of those and not the other

 

Correct observation but my intentions were to separate the "gut-based" navigation of some of the sailors and petty officers ( who knew very basic facts about moon and other stars) from the educated science of Charting and Triangulation that was taught to Officers. The Observation of Stars is very ancient, I think, while the Celestial Navigation was official only from 1793 ( the definyning works began in 1714 !!)

As Brian Lavery says in his fabolous book " It was precisely this skill which separated the sea officers from the petty officers and common seamen".

I'll see If I manage to find something better.

 

Thanks to everyone

Andrea

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Just some thoughts

 

If I were to play in this campaign I would be tempted to play a marine and save 30 some points for Combat Skill Levels. This level of details seems great in theory but once you are at the table who really wants to roll their Food Preservation Skill over and over again?

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

originally posted by CourtFool: This level of details seems great in theory but once you are at the table who really wants to roll their Food Preservation Skill over and over again?

Someone who likes Rolemaster:D

 

The idea of creating many skills is related to the fact that, IMHO, a book on a setting should be as complete as possible, even just to give an idea of the skills that might be involved in such setting.

Then everyone can play the character that suits him best (and the Master). Your Sailor, for example, would be great on any boarding party but I would not put him in the crew of the cook or the purser :D

 

Moreover I don't think that you are really required to roll for "food preservation" often but Rigging Mastery is another story.

 

Thanks for the feedback

Andrea

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Thanks to all of you for your replies

 

 

I'm willing to describe any of the previous skills if I will able to do that and also create some examples for the different target level. Stargazing for example is not the same of Celestial Navigation because the last one requires the use and knowledge of the sextant.

 

 

Thanks for your suggestions at the moment I'm using

  • The young sea officer's sheet anchor by Darcy Lever
  • The arming and fitting of English ships of war 1600-1815 by Brian Lavery
  • Nelson's Navy (The ships, Men and Organisation 1793-1815) by Brian Lavery
  • A Marine dictionary and terminology by Various Author
  • All the Patrick O'Brien books
  • All the Hornblower books

By the way I'm working out all of your suggestions to make a definitive list.

 

PS Edsel I thought many times about Coopering and I switched to Carpentry but I think that you're right. I'll put it back along with Shipwright

 

Ciao

Andrea

 

All excellent references. I have will post a few more titles when I get back home.

 

For skills I would recommend a broader brush. I would talk about occupations and areas of responsibility, with NPC's simpley slotted to a job. For skills available to PC's, I would instead write up some general packages that include several items/skills and named for general idea, say "ships navigation" as an example.

 

In fact, most PC's should probabaly not be regular crew at all, if the game is to be played in a Napoleonic type AoS setting. I would lean toward making them all officers of some capacity or gentlemen volunteers from at least minor titled families or non-titled holding measureable and influential wealth. If the PC's are regular crew in that period they really wouldn't have much of a say in just about anything. I would even avoid Midshipmen or "cabin boys". It would be like playing a "records clerk" in a modern setting. Not "records clerk" as a secret ID, but the actual clerk. A solid occupation in the real world, but not really that fun in a RPG.

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Originally posted by Spence

In fact, most PC's should probabaly not be regular crew at all, if the game is to be played in a Napoleonic type AoS setting. I would lean toward making them all officers of some capacity or gentlemen volunteers from at least minor titled families or non-titled holding measureable and influential wealth

I agree completely that there's no much amount of freedom if you are a lesser player in the English Navy. I lean toward the officer status or, as you suggested, the wealthy adventurer ( or a spy like Maturin). Obiouvsly if you play in a more loose organisation ( like the Ottoman Navy or the infant American Navy of Nelson's books) you can get a certain amount of freedom because the rule are not so strict.

 

As for the skills, my main goal is definying all the details then I will surely put most of them in packages, but I really don't want to lose the technical feeling that is a basic part of this setting (IMHO).

 

Originally posted by Spence

All excellent references. I have will post a few more titles when I get back home

Thanks a lot

Andrea

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

In fact' date=' most PC's should probabaly not be regular crew at all, if the game is to be played in a Napoleonic type AoS setting. I would lean toward making them all officers of some capacity or gentlemen volunteers from at least minor titled families or non-titled holding measureable and influential wealth. If the PC's are regular crew in that period they really wouldn't have much of a say in just about anything. I would even avoid Midshipmen or "cabin boys". It would be like playing a "records clerk" in a modern setting. Not "records clerk" as a secret ID, but the actual clerk. A solid occupation in the real world, but not really that fun in a RPG.[/quote']

Ah, Midshipmen could be fun to play. Watch Hornblower sometime. :) (The first four films of the Ioan Gryffud series, anyway. The last four sucked.) He's a midshipman, moving to acting lieutenant, moving to genuine lieutenant. Also give a model for some of the players being enlisted men - as long as they're part of a crew that regularly interacts with the officer characters, it's all good. I'd be happy playing a Styles or a Matthews.

 

I guess the essence is that while technically, enlisted men and Midshipmen had no power, it really depends on the ship. A good Middy with an open captain might have a fair degree of autonomy, and that good Middy may well listen to his men, too. It's certainly possible, but does make certain plots more difficult (the young officer is invited to a ball. The men can't come... maybe they go to the pub at the same time. But in any case, it'd be hard to get them into the same scene at the same time).

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Re: Age of Sail: Sailors and Officers Skills

 

Andrea

 

I am in the middle of a "book panic", when I moved last year I never unpacked all of my books and now I cannot find some of them…..

 

 

I did find two that might be of use. They both include information on actual crew positions and duties on a warship in the "Nelson" era.

 

They are: "The Illustrated Companion to Nelson's Navy" by Nicholas Blake and Richard Lawrence. Stackpole Books in the US and by Chatham Books in the UK. ISBN 0-8117-0864-0. It is a basic book that covers everything from jobs, the food they ate, sail combat tactics, general ship layouts (simple deckplans) to even a glossary of terms from the period. A very good book for the purpose of running a RPG.

 

The other book is "Naval Warfare in the Age of Sail, War at Sea 1756-1815" by Bernard Ireland. By W.W Norton & Company (U.S. and U.K) In agreement with HarperCollins Publishers. ISBN 0-393-04983-3. It is more technical. On pg 45 is shows a diagram by deck and gun by the positions of all the gun crews at action stations after beating to quarters. Gun crews that are keyed on the diagram: Captain, Lieutenant, Warrant Officer, Midshipman or mate, Gun Captain, member of gun crew, seaman (non-gun crew) and Artisan ( non-gun crew). On pg 113 it breaks down the crew by watch (starboard, larboard) as they are placed for sail. The sections are Fore Topmen, Main Topmen, Mizzen Topmen, Forecastle Men, Afterguard, Officers, Idlers, Servants, Marines, Boatswain's Mates, Quartermasters, Gunners Crew and Carpenters Crew. These are all color coded by: Commissioned Officers, Seaman Warrant Officers, Civilian Warrant Officers, Mates and Midshipmen, Petty Officers, Ordinary and Able Seamen, Landsmen, Artisans, Boys, Marine Officers, Marine NCO's and Marine Privates.

 

Of course the manning of every ship was different, but it is a fantastic sample.

 

I hope this helps.

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