"Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

[Michael Hopcroft]

I know Crosshair Collie is going to scream bloody murder at me for this, but I'm finding myself wondering how to translate Takahashi's "Tribe of Women Heroes", aka "the Chinese Amazons" from Ranma 1/2, into a viable culture for fantasy PCs to encounter or be members of.

 

The tribe is a matriarchal society built around personal combat prowess, with a heavy dose of herbalism and possibly other types of magic. The term "Amazon" is something of a misnomer -- not only are both sexes present, but everyone of both genders trains in combat in addition to whatever other trade they learn (after all, somebody has to make clothes, grow food, etc. even in a society of warriors).

 

What makes the tribe unique is in part the way they choose mates. Before a man can marry a woman, he must defeat her in a non-lethal hand-to-hand combat. (After all, there would be very little point to the combat being to the death!) But remember this is a matriarchy, where most of the important decisions in the society vare made by women. This implies a taboo against rape that would put Western society's to shame. This would indiciate that the "courtship duel" would be an even more formalized affair, that the woman could avoid simply by refusing to participate in. At the same time, she would be fighting to win, even if she really, really has the hots for the guy in question.

 

So, two related questions -- how could this work in a fantasy setting, and what sort of Package Deal would someone from a culutre like this have?

[Susano]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

So' date=' two related questions -- how could this work in a fantasy setting, and what sort of Package Deal would someone from a culutre like this have?[/quote']

 

I think it would work exactly as you have described it. I also think it's possible the women would outnumber the men, as the losing men might end up being sent away (especially if they fail to beat any females). The really, really good females may find themselves in a bit of a bind -- if none of the men can beat them, they don't get married, and they don't pass on their genes (of course, they also may figure out how to throw a fight without appearing to do so).

 

Realistically, (but depending on the style), odds are very few woman would be unbeatable by any of the men. A hard style will favor power, which men tend to have, while a softer style might favor agility and flexibility, giving the edge to the women. In Ranma 1/2 the Amazons use a hard style -- but then, anime physics is involved as well, meaning Shamploo can punch down walls and the like.

 

The culture would be interesting.... as a matriarchy, the women (specifically elder women) run everything, and one presumes the best female fighters become the elders of the tribe. I doubt the men are pampered in anyway (i.e. merely looked at as a way to create new tribe members) and may be expected to remain fit and strong -- so as to produce strong children (women too). In fact, I am thinking Sparta here -- where military training and physical fitness was paramount -- as everyone had to be ready for war. So the Chinese Amazons won't think twice about female warriors and may have trouble with the idea of non-combatant scholars and the like. Trial by combat by be common (if it wins you a wife, it also proves might = right), while divorce and property inheritance may be very Norse/Viking in style (who owns the house? the man? the woman? in either case, the death of a spouse means the survivor gets it and can administer it). Divorce would be simple -- just cry it three times in the village square.

 

A package deal can be built by mixing some of the ones seen in FH. Some enhanced stats makes sense (STR, DEX, CON) as physical fitness is needed to win a wife (or to defeat unwanted suitors), as well as a basic martial arts package (10 points of maneuvers of your choice). Weapons training,

physical training, and for the women, herbalism. Oh, and a PS of the player's choice.

[gojira]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

I think the women of said tribe were very, very strong. Shampoo, the woman in Ranma 1/2 who is from the tribe, would regularily walk through solid walls (on accident), or ride her bicycle through solid a solid wall.

 

My first thought on seeing the thread title was: "Chinese Women's Volleyball Team!"

 

Mmmmm, volleyball...

[Black Rose]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

I think the women of said tribe were very, very strong. Shampoo, the woman in Ranma 1/2 who is from the tribe, would regularily walk through solid walls (on accident), or ride her bicycle through a solid wall.

 

My first thought on seeing the thread title was: "Chinese Women's Volleyball Team!"

 

Mmmmm, volleyball...

"Aiyah, volleyball too too popular in home village. Gaijin use Chinese Amazons for Dead or Alive game. Airen take Shampoo on date now, yes?"

 

Ah, one of my most favorite shows.

 

Vaguely on topic now; I think Shampoo was a little bit of a wunderkind in the strength department. Not implying she was the strongest person in her village, but when your great-grandmother is a matriarch (okay, theoretically everybody in that village probably had a great-grandmother on the council of matriarchs) you probably get some special training. Based on Shampoo's capabilities, I think some sort of toughening training, if not the full Blasting Point training regime: there is an argument to be made that Shampoo's "Door, Shampoo no need door!" technique is some variation of the Blasting Point technique.

[SKJAM!]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

Technically, the "courtship by combat" rules only applied to outsider men in canon. We don't know what the internal rules were for marriage, but I would guess a combination of family alliance and affection would be involved. (Mousse, despite his physical disability, might still have been able to land Shampoo if she'd ever actually been interested.)

[BlackSword]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

So' date=' two related questions -- how could this work in a fantasy setting, and what sort of Package Deal would someone from a culutre like this have?[/quote']

In our d20 game, the GM has interacting with a warrior society, though it patriarchal instead of matriarchal. It includes some of the things here, such as suitors through combat as well as trial by combat. Everything is measured by fighting prowess. My Sorceror gained acceptance by being unique (Draconic Heritage) as well as being a very effective combat sorceror. The wizard, not so much acceptance and he had to prove a lot more until the accepted him.

 

Children may be adopted and raised by the tribe. If the women are expected to always be ready to fight, they may be down for 9+ months for a pregenancy, but soon after the child is born it is given to the woman's mother, a group of older women, day care, or some other central repository that raises the children. The mother would then get back into training and shape so she is ready to fight again.

 

One thing, council of matriarches may be based partially on the daughters of the older women. While there will be politicing for power in the council, prestige may also be gained by deeds and honor gained by a matriarchs daughters and grand-daughters.

 

I think Susano has the basics of the package deal. Combat based stats are increased, martial arts, and their day-to-day skills. Also, what is the economy, planted argiculture or hunter-gather. If its hunter-gather then most people will have skills related to tracking and hunting food.

 

Also there may be a few Professional Package deals for 'professional' warriors, Blacksmiths, Bakers, etc. While everyone may be ready and able to fight, some will be better at other trades and spend more time working their trade then training.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

A fighter who is also a blacksmith is generally a nasty combination. The requiremenets of the metalworking trade mean they would be strong and tough, and if their training included weaponsmithing they would be experts in the structure of bladed weapons of all sorts. even using a sort of Find Weakness for attacks specicially designed to weaken or break your opponent's sword.

 

Getting back on topic slightly, there could be a specific, ritualized style for "courtship combat" Only very limited use of weapons, no lethal attacks, and possibly a speical condition for victory that would be considered especially appropriate for the purpose (for example, if the man can plant a kiss on the woman's lips he is automatically declared the winner).

 

Of course, since it is highly unlikely that the two people involved would be complete strangers, it would be pretty much a matter of "You have to prove that you are worthy of the honor of marrying me before the village will permit it" than anything else.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

I plan to run a Wuxia based game at some point in the future and in it there is a group of women warriors who live in the Northwest portion of China loosely based on the Wuxia film Bride with White Hair 2.

[UltraRob]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

My first thought on seeing the thread title was: "Chinese Women's Volleyball Team!"

Mmmmm, volleyball...

 

Threadjack!

 

Actually, my former Chinese tutor and still good friend spent her teenage years on a state-sponsored national volleyball team in China. She is HUGE, and breaks pretty much every stereotype about Asians being small/weak. It's actually funny to see her tower over her average sized Canadian husband. She's a "Chinese Amazon" in every sense of the word, including being hot as hell in the looks department.

 

If there's a whole tribe of her across the strait (she was from Shanghai), I'm packing my bags!

 

end Threadjack!

 

Rob

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

Threadjack!

 

Actually, my former Chinese tutor and still good friend spent her teenage years on a state-sponsored national volleyball team in China. She is HUGE, and breaks pretty much every stereotype about Asians being small/weak. It's actually funny to see her tower over her average sized Canadian husband. She's a "Chinese Amazon" in every sense of the word, including being hot as hell in the looks department.

 

If there's a whole tribe of her across the strait (she was from Shanghai), I'm packing my bags!

 

end Threadjack!

Why I am reminded of the enormous Canadian judo expert (a huge woman with a heart to match) in Yawara: a Fashionable Judo Girl!?

 

She plays a very important role in that particular series, which concerns a reluctant prodigy whose glory-mad grandfather insists she become an Olympic judo competitor. The heroine spends the early part of the series rebelling against the idea in every way she can think of -- until she is visited by the Canadian, who proves to her that competition can be fun and there can be a friendly rivalry even in a "combat sport".

 

How is this on-topic? because there are going to be aituations like that in a tribe like this. In every culture in which everyone follows a specific path for at least part of their lives, some are going to rebel against the stricture -- and these are often the most gifted in the society.

 

Another interesting problem for a society like this is how it deals with "alternative sexualities" among its people. Given that a challenge can always be refused, and that man does not have to issue a marital challenge to anyone if he doesn't want to, how will the society view those who forego this "rite of passage" because they are gay or lesbian, or simply would prefer to live alone? would those indivulals with especially stiong bloodlines and martial skills have breeding demanded of them regardless of their own wishes?

[Markdoc]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

Another interesting problem for a society like this is how it deals with "alternative sexualities" among its people. Given that a challenge can always be refused' date=' and that man does not have to issue a marital challenge to anyone if he doesn't want to, how will the society view those who forego this "rite of passage" because they are gay or lesbian, or simply would prefer to live alone? would those indivulals with especially stiong bloodlines and martial skills have breeding [i']demanded[/i] of them regardless of their own wishes?

 

For that matter what happens when a man offers *another* man "marriage by combat"?

 

cheers, Mark

[Steve]

Re: "Chinese Amazons" as a Fantasy Culture

 

For that matter what happens when a man offers *another* man "marriage by combat"?

 

Well, if you add in the springs of Jusenkyo, there are some interesting possibilities that emerge. Ranma, for example, is female part of the time. If he married Shampoo, would he have a slightly higher status than a mere male because he is a she a fair amount of the time? And fanfics have also explored the possibilities of a female cast member (like Nabiki or Ukyo) going on the training trip with Genma instead of Ranma, ending up falling into "The Spring of Drowned Man" and then arriving at the village and defeating Shampoo. How would magical gender changes work under the laws of the Chinese Amazons?