A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

[Herolover]

I am the GM in a Supers campaign. A player wants a Sword that is an OAF. Simple right? But he wants it to be able to be shrunk down and easily hidden. Should he have to buy disguise or a power for the sword?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

I would say he should buy it as an IAF (similar to a holdout blaster... a weapon that's easily hidden when not in use, but still obvious when being used). If you're feeling really generous, you might allow him to take I/OAF as a -3/4 Limitation, with the idea that it's Inobvious when not in use, and Obvious while in use.

[Bloodstone]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

How small does the focus get?

 

A pocket knife and a two handed claymore are vastly different sizes, but are still both OAF's in normal game terms. The pocket knife is simply easier to conceal due to it's size.

 

If it gets small enough that it's no longer functional as anything other then a jewelry, you might make it an IAF or even an IIF (the latter being appropriate if it's worn on a chain or something at it's reduced size).

 

However, if the damn thing gets so small that 99 time out of 100 no one will ever find it without doing a microscoping serach of the character, well, you might be better of building the power as a Summon or an HKA with Physical Manifestation...

[GoldenAge]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

I had a special situation not long ago. My character developed a lab that could shrink down to the size of a marble (and beyond). When fully grown the lab was the size of a 30' diameter geodesic sphere (with a frequency of 10), bulky and fragile (the stuff inside). When shrunken down to marble size it was easily moved (and occasionally lost). As it gets even smaller it is used as a vehicle to penetrate the Microverse.

 

I bought it with multiform. This is a top-level review of the construct (it's actually a little bit more complex):

 

Big (Normal) = OAF (any scientist could use it) + Bulky/Fragile (cuz my character can grow to enormous sizes and might be tempted to pick it up)

Small = IAF + Concealment built in (thus even the owner looses it occasionally). At this size the chromodynamic field that shrinks it also stabilizes its contents, thus no Fragile.

Microscopic = IIF + Extra-Dimensional Movement (I thought about buying it as a vehicle, but that just didn't feel right)

 

Does anyone have a better way to make this?

[StGrimblefig]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Okay, I'll take the hard line.

 

A focus that can shrink to be hid ... is probably not a focus. It is probably just a special effect of a HKA. That way he can have it do whatever he wants when he is not using it.

 

If the sword cannot be stolen, etc. while he is fighting, then it is definitely a special effect.

 

If the sword can be stolen while he is fighting with it, then maybe one of the above solutions could be used. But I would give the miniaturized sword a greater than normal chance of being lost or "misplaced" while small -- because it sounds to me that he is trying to get around the dangers of having an OAF with this (i.e. hiding it kind of goes against it being "obvious").

[Herolover]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Thanks for all the information. You have given me a lot to think about.

 

The focus shrinks down to a pocket knife and it looks like a normal pocket knife, not a mini-sword.

 

The idea is that it is hidden, but can be taken when not in fighting mode. IAF

When in fighting mode it it can b e taken away. OAF

[Armitage]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

A small knife has a +0 PER Modifier for concealment.

A sword has a +4 to +6 PER Modifier for concealment; we'll use +5 for the example.

 

Using the Concealment Holster from the Equipment Guide as a base:

Shrinking Sword: +5 with Concealment (10 Active Points); Only to Hide the Special Sword (-2), OAF (-1). Total cost: 2 points.

 

You could then conceal the sword on your person as easily as a pocket knife, the special effect being that it actually turns into a pocket knife.

[Frenchman]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

When I created a magical sword which could turn into a ring on the character's hand, I did the same as Armitage - Big bonus to concealment, but it was still an OAF - It was obvious that it was a sword, when it was a sword (just like a magic ring is obviously magical, when its shooting fireballs), and it was just as accessible as any other sword, when it was a sword. So I bought it +12 with concealment (only to hide the sword) and Fastdraw at 18-

[Siren]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Um beginner here but, doesn't that take away the bonus for the Obvioue part?

[CourtFool]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

You might consider Only In Hero ID or Restrainable instead. I smell munchkin though.

 

I Smell Munchkin - Detect Munchkin (5 Active Points), Extra Time (1 Turn; -1¼), Only From Second Hand Account of Activities (-¼) (2 Active Points

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

If you could buy a 3d6 HKA - OAF Sword, or a 3d6 HKA - OAF Pocket Knife, why should making the sword as easy to hide as the pocket knife change the point cost?

[Siren]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Wow interesting point, but I think the key word there is Pocket. You would expect to have a pocket knife in your pocket so it work. But to keep an M1-A1 Abrims in your pock sort of breaks the Obvioue part of the weapon.

 

So I would think that buying a sword as Obvioue and hiding it shrunk down would be cheeting the disadvantage.

[SirViss]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

That may be, but usually something is "Obvious" when it is in use. A pistol is an OAF also, but once holstered it is hard to spot. A whip could be easy to conceal and they can be 30 feet long!

 

In a campaign with super-powers or advanced tech, a "shrinking" object, when it isn't in use, is not that bizarre. Just look at a Light Saber.

[Siren]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

What do I know anyway, I am a new player. LOL

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Wow interesting point, but I think the key word there is Pocket. You would expect to have a pocket knife in your pocket so it work. But to keep an M1-A1 Abrims in your pock sort of breaks the Obvioue part of the weapon.

 

So I would think that buying a sword as Obvioue and hiding it shrunk down would be cheeting the disadvantage.

 

Then you wouldn't give the character a -1 limitation for the OAF Pocket Knife? If two abilities have exactly the same effect, why should they not cost exactly the same points?

 

Perhaps, however, the focus that is too small to be readily concealed ought to have a limitation value different from the one that can be readily concealed. My pocket knife likely won't cause an issue when I go to a state dinner, so I can have my focus with me. A sword will cause quite a stir.

[prestidigitator]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

There could be substantial benefits to the weapon shrinking other than the ability to hide it. It is easier to carry, can possibly be passed through a set of bars easily, might be usable by very small characters, etc. I'd probably buy it as Shrinking with Only for Weapon (-3; that's right, it never even applies to the actual character) and Lockout (-1/2) or Proportional Lockout (-1/4) (or a Multipower if you must) with the weapon's Attack Powers and possibly any other powers bought through it (so that the Attack Power is either unusable while any of the Shrinking is activated, or has reduced effectiveness). Some suitable Advantages for the Shrinking might be Reduced End Cost: 0 End (+1/2) and Persistant (+1/2).

[Siren]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

Then you wouldn't give the character a -1 limitation for the OAF Pocket Knife? If two abilities have exactly the same effect, why should they not cost exactly the same points?

 

Perhaps, however, the focus that is too small to be readily concealed ought to have a limitation value different from the one that can be readily concealed. My pocket knife likely won't cause an issue when I go to a state dinner, so I can have my focus with me. A sword will cause quite a stir.

 

Nope, I said I am a noob and you are far my superior. If I knew have the rules as you guys I would be happy. :-)

 

 

 

BTW: GREAT point SirVIss!

[Shike019]

Re: A Focus that can Shrink to be hid.

 

If you take a look at the UMA, weapons bought as a IAF are not obvious when NOT in use. As such a sword where the scabbard is part of a walking stick is an IAF. When it's in use its an OAF, but it is designed as an IAF. So I would make it an IAF and leave it.